The Horse Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 80 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,641 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The trainer at my barn who's worked with horses for 30 yrs [training] wont even get on Chance. Which is deffinately a big red light there. We had a LONG talk today and she thinks its something in Chances "upstairs" that's out of her own control, so when she explodes shes even a danger to herself basically.

Shes watched me work with Chance and the other horses and she said its nothing to do with me nor my riding. Chance is just plain not stable. She's seen her episodes as well. She said basically.. if Chance was her horse she would have been put down a long time ago because shes a danger to herself and I guess who ever gets on her. Which I don't agree with but... maybe its because I'm attached to her. I've had A LOT of people tell me this and I just denied it.

My BO even agreed. She said Chance was just over my head, and even hers. Which I can agree with. I have confidence with every other horse BUT Chance. I cant get on her and say Im ready to take on w.e you give me. Because the second I feel her tense I tense..I never did this till at least the 3rd time she threw me. I don't do this with ANY other horse. Even the worst of buckers I've ridden. Bolters are a different story. I only like galloping when its on purpose :wink:

The woman at my barn I talked to said that basically its easy to fix a horse thats trying to get you off on purpose, its the horses that arent. Which is what Chance's problem is. Shes not trying to hurt me or get me off. She just explodes and looses all self control and she forgets about the person on her back and her surroundings. Then once she feels me up there, its startles her and backs her freak out even more. Idk if you understand what I mean here. Like as shes freaking out shes pretty much forgotten that I was up there and then she feels me trying to stay on and it startles her and she thinks its something trying to eat her and explodes more. Which when she starts to twist and buck harder. Some of u may and or may nor agree with this. But this is said from people who have seen Chances worsts and bests in person.

The mare I work with is b****y, and tries to unbalence me and get me off, and its pretty easy to correct her and get her to comply with what I want. Chance.. when she bolted yesterday, I had to almost LITERALLY make her fall to the ground in order to stop her feet, then she was fine. A normal one rein stop wasn't enough she kept trying to go, so I let her loose again for a second then forced her to spin around tightly and she twisted herself and finally had to think about her feet cause she was starting to fall. Its scary and i cant keep getting on her and work with that. People who watch me ride her tell me EVERY time, im extremely brave to put a foot in that stirrup. Which im not brave.. im just plain stupid and determined... but i've come to terms with the truth.

I broke her basically, taught her w/t/c had a lot of GREAT firsts with her, but I've put a bunch of time and money in her and shes not giving me anything back. Its a one way street, and like the woman said, theres pot holes on the other side. Its not safe. I've learned A LOT from her.

But I know someone who may take her for free and see what they want to do with her and if I ever want to buy her back I can. I have a few options for her so im not to worried.

Please don't start attacking me please. I'm willing to listen and try not to get defensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
I went to a horse clinic this weekend and I learned alot!!! "Your horse doesn't have an issue, they have a symthom (can't spell) of a cause..." meaning that you need to have full respect from your horse before you ride her... if this means that you just work on the ground and focus only on getting her two eyes on you then you WILL see a change. This trainer I went to see was Clinton Anderson. I dont know if you personally like him and everyone has their own opinion and I dont mean to say you HAVE to use his method but I watched him take a TOTALLY DISRESPECTFUL horse and turn this horse into a dream!!! Not one horse but three! All he did in the beginning was have the horses two eyes on him. Longing for respect is such a great method for me personally. Anyways thats my word of advice for the night.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,641 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
We do a BUNCH of ground work. We're Level 3 online in the parelli program. We've also done round pen work and lunging. Actually I have a video of some of the lunge work I've done with her.


Sadly shes a DREAM on the ground. Which is why I've held onto her for so long. I LOVE working with her on ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,642 Posts
Perhaps Chance is acting out of pain... From what I can remember, there have been numerous videos and threads about her acting up and being on and off lame.
You have been given great advice on here for literally years, HAF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,641 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The woman and I guessed something physical but she is sound with her shoes, shes been checked for being out of alignment and she was fine, back checked and nothing there. The only thing to know for sure is ultrasound for anything that could be going on in the inside. But how much more money is that? Shes only been lame twice in her life, the first time was when I first got her, then with this injury to her navicular bone. But with the shoe shes sound and able to relax at all gaits and put weight on her hooves like normal.

We thought lyme was the cause of her unpredictableness, but shes been treated, the weathers warmer and shes still on edge.

JDI I know i've gotten a lot of good advice, but I never took it because I felt like I could fix her and we'd be fine but when even that woman at my barn wouldn't even get on her and shes pretty fearless... it opened my eyes big time that something has to be wrong with my horse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,267 Posts
I really, really hope you mean it this time. You have done everything you can to help Chance...EVERYTHING! I know what it means to love a horse, but at some point you have got to start thinking about your own neck. If you keep on, one of those close calls are going to turn into a tragic accident. All of us take a certain amount of risk when riding and we all know it, but you are taking more risk than you should, IMO. I think you are a great person for trying to work things out with your horse. It isn't going to work though. Don't keep doing this to yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,641 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sandy I agree. I've risked my life A LOT of times and quite a few were close calls. Its been 2 years and I cant seem to get any further with Chance.

I am more then ready to let go of her now. I love her but I want to ride for fun again not wondering if Im gonna live through my next fall.

People at my barn actually are starting to ask if I came off of her during our ride everytime I ride her. It seems that everything is just escalating..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,179 Posts
Chance.. when she bolted yesterday, I had to almost LITERALLY make her fall to the ground in order to stop her feet, then she was fine. A normal one rein stop wasn't enough she kept trying to go, so I let her loose again for a second then forced her to spin around tightly and she twisted herself and finally had to think about her feet cause she was starting to fall.
Once again - How is she sound enough to be doing things like this yet?

Apart from that - I don't really want to put too much time into a response here, because all of the well thought out and halpful posts have generally been ignored before this. I really, really hope you go through with this and get Chance to someone who will click with her and is able to handle her outbursts. But I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Sadly shes a DREAM on the ground. Which is why I've held onto her for so long. I LOVE working with her on ground.
It is hard to let go of a horse you love but holding onto a horse that is unsafe is not good for you, nor her. You may love doing ground work but there is a point where that won't be enough. I had a horse for 6 years, she was never broke and I held onto her because I had a bond with her and she was good on the ground but she did me no good because I couldn't ride her without the fear of her bucking me off or rearing. You may have survived those falls but there may be a day when you won't be so lucky. I say choose the option you feel is best for her and for you. I have a horse right now that I have kind of the same problem just not as bad.
Good luck :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
People have mental issues (bipolar, depression, ADHD, what ever), I am not sure why people don't think that some horses may have them too.

I learned the hard way with one particular gelding that attempted to kill me any time he got the opportunity that anyone SMART enough to know how to deal with him, was SMART enough to not want to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,193 Posts
I couldn't live with myself if I sold a horse that was not only a danger to it's rider, but also to itself. There are plenty of good, hounest horses out there, we don't need to keep the ones that are plain lunatics. I said it in your last thread and it was completely blown off, but since you're instructor is saying the same thing, I'll say it again. Maybe getting her PTS is the best, safest and kindest option for everyone involved. Unless you find someone who is willing to take her on as a companion horse, I could NEVER sell a horse that is so dangerous and unpredictable. When they get to the point where they will do anything to get rid of you and completely lose the plot, I'm not interested. I have sold one horse who was a nutter when put under pressure. But she would have been a great little trail horse and happy to plod along on a loose rein. Told the buyers that and sure enough, they think they can 'fix' her and what happens, she throws them off and is now for sale again.

You don't want Chance to get passed home to home, injuring people as she goes and potentially ending up either at the doggers, or wasting away in a paddock somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

I would get her PTS while you have full control of the situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,909 Posts
People have mental issues (bipolar, depression, ADHD, what ever), I am not sure why people don't think that some horses may have them too.
I agree. Sometime it's in their heads and you can do nothing about it. I came across 2 horses like this. One was just put down by the rescue as they could do nothing, not sure about other one - I believe he stayed as pasture pet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
Advice must be given knowing that there is a chance people won't take it... that instead they will compare it to what they know and decide the advice is not it..... it does take a strong person to accept that too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,379 Posts
I'm confused. I could swear you had recently had multiple threads about the vet diagnosing her with some very serious condition(s?) resulting in the conclusion she was not riding sound.
Aside from that, I believe Chance's future is going to be best served with someone else, so I do hope you find her a good placement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
From all of your threads I've read I'm kind of with Kayty. Or try and find her a home that is strictly 100% companionship only. Even then I'd be worried about her new owners deciding to ride her one day thinking "well her old owner just didn't try hard enough or didn't know her like I know her."

I just don't think this mare needs to be ridden. It doesn't seem like it's doing her a lot of good and she's a danger to whoever rides her.

I really do hope you do something about her this time though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
I have met 1 horse who truly had mental issues. My trainer with 40+ years of experience brought her in to try and help her owner but she was a huge danger. She ran threw fences, would throw herself down on the ground, would lung at her stall walls, one time when we tried to tie her she beet her head against the tie rail and exposed her skull. She didn't pull back and freak out, she stood there and smacked her head against a metal pole...thank goodness for quick releases! It was a real night mare. After only 3 days my trainer sat down with the owner and convinced her to put her in a pasture (which she was fine in). I have no idea what was wrong with this horse but I had NEVER seen my trainer call it quits on any horse. Even when my old jumper came in OTT he was very aggressive and we got threw to him and he turned into a big puppy.

If you can find a non riding situation she will be safe and happy in I think that's probably best for her and you and no one will fault you. It seems like you have done as much as you can to help and work with her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
My friend owns a gelding that sounds just like Chance. You can ride him several times and he's fine but then all of a sudden he just starts bucking completely out of the blue. Once he gets it out of his system, he will complete the trail ride and have no problems......like it never happened. Every once in a while, he will kick one of his back legs out sideways while he's walking - not kicking at anything, just kicking. My friend swears he has Equine Turrets. Anyway, she has basically turned him into a pasture horse as he's not safe to ride. He has thrown way too many people. At some point in time, you need to realize that your and the horse's safety is much more important the proving a point. You have tried, you have been patient and put lots of hours into the mare, but she is still not safe to ride. I would find her a nice home where she can be a pasture horse and let her live out her life safely and happily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,641 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
She was diagnosed with Lyme and a lameness problem but she was treated for lyme with a 6-7 week treatment. And with eggbar shoes she is infact sound. She Roughage on her navicular bone may never be fixed but with shoes we can make her comfortable and relaxed within her gaits and be able to take a step with out being in pain.

What is PTS??? Im not quite sure what that is so I cant really respond to your reply. Can you explain?

The woman at my barn was worried about selling her as a companion horse since they MAY try and ride her but, imo that would be out of my control and I would say - I do not reccomend riding her, but if you do I warned you. :p

Chance has been through being ran over by a tractor, cattle proded, slipped under trailers as a baby cause they were forcing her in, been made to rear to bad that she hit her head off of the ceiling beams, and whipped pretty hard in her chest/ rump so hard she had marks. All of this happened before she was even 4 1/2 which is when I got her. I think just TO much has happened to that mare that its caused perminate damage.

No horse should be fine w/t/c in the indoor and the next day be flighty and bull headed .. on and off for 2 years...it SHOULD have been over with a while ago it shouldnt be so continuous. Or be fine with jumping for a good 1/2 hour then over the SAME jump shes been jumping land and do a 180 with multiple bucks. Or at the walk... she takes off FULL gallop crow hops when she stops then once shes done.. shes PERFECTLY fine again. The person watching said there was no way to tell that was gonna happen. So idk I think its mental more or less.

I told the person who wants to take her on that she bolts randomly with out warning and it escalates, and shes like yeah I've delt with horses like that - shes determined she can make Chance bomb proof. She said If I like what she does with her she will sell her back to me. But I'm looking at my options, there is someone looking for a companion horse who may take her for $200.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,642 Posts
Again, I bring forth the question.... is she in pain? Many horses just cannot stand being in pain and act out because they absolutely cannot do it anymore. You can't know for sure how long her navicular has been bothering her. You cannot say for absolute certain that it isn't bothering her now -- for goodness sake, she was just diagnosed 3 weeks ago..!
I'll liken it to my knee -- today I am in a lot of pain. It's hard for me to even get up the stairs. I'm grouchy because of it. But some days I'm not in pain, and can walk for a half hour on concrete without too much trouble.
My friend just had a saddle fitter out to check her mare that was acting out here and there. It turns out that the saddle is causing deep muscle soreness. She didn't act out every day, just sporadically.
Again I ask what exactly you have had done about Chance's lameness? What tests did they do? Did you read my reply on your last thread, when I posted a video about Denny? How can you be absolutely certain that she's not in pain - especially when you've w/t/c and jumped her 3 weeks after finding out that she has a serious condition?

PTS means put to sleep; euthanized. If she truly is as bad as you say she is, I agree with whoever suggested it might be the best option for her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,005 Posts
I couldn't live with myself if I sold a horse that was not only a danger to it's rider, but also to itself. There are plenty of good, hounest horses out there, we don't need to keep the ones that are plain lunatics. I said it in your last thread and it was completely blown off, but since you're instructor is saying the same thing, I'll say it again. Maybe getting her PTS is the best, safest and kindest option for everyone involved. Unless you find someone who is willing to take her on as a companion horse, I could NEVER sell a horse that is so dangerous and unpredictable. When they get to the point where they will do anything to get rid of you and completely lose the plot, I'm not interested. I have sold one horse who was a nutter when put under pressure. But she would have been a great little trail horse and happy to plod along on a loose rein. Told the buyers that and sure enough, they think they can 'fix' her and what happens, she throws them off and is now for sale again.

You don't want Chance to get passed home to home, injuring people as she goes and potentially ending up either at the doggers, or wasting away in a paddock somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

I would get her PTS while you have full control of the situation.
Agreed. My biggest fear would be selling her to a home where she may be ridden only to find out in a few months down the road that she's seriously hurt/killed someone.
A horse that you admit is a danger to those around them, is, unfortunately, not something to be kept around. Please keep in mind who you are selling her to has a family and friends who love them very much. Selling them an animal that could potentially be lethal to them is a very, very bad situation.
I would very much try to find her a strictly companion home (yes, I am aware of how hard that is in this economy), or maybe consider having her put to sleep..
Horses that are that dangerous are really not worth keeping, as sad as it is to say.
Whatever you decide, good luck, I wish you the best.
 
1 - 20 of 80 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top