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4 year old AQHA Cremello Stallion - I would love to get some confo critiques of him. Thanks!
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Conformation Critique For AQHA Stallion
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Is it possible for you to get some non angled shots for this? Every one of these is on some kind of an angle, some of them very unflattering for him.
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I can see if I can find some. I've got tons of photos but the photographer that I used - this was her first time taking horse photos - so I apologize for the angles, etc.
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And no, he isn't THAT butt high. The first two photos were taken back in March - he had grown up more now and filled out some. He was also standing on a little bit of an incline
I like him but not as a stallion. He is a bit long backed and his hind leg angles are not correct (lower stifle would help IMO). He may not be butt high but he is certainly at the least even (from this set of photos). He has a good front, nice shoulder and a good neck and head set. He has good bone.
When I say I do not like him as a stallion it has to do with conformation. I believe that a stallion needs to earn the right to keep his 'equipment' and use it by having very good conformation and working titles (your horse may have working titles). These need to be repeatable under different judges and scenarios.
All that being said, remember this.. Opinions are worth what you pay...
I like Cremellos. My first horse was a cremello though he was very white in his body and off white in his mane and tail.. one Watch eye and one solid navy blue eye. I have never met a cremello I have not liked as far as attitude and capacity to think and solve puzzles goes. Purely anecdotal but I often have wondered if the coloration is tied in to that attitude and puzzle solving ability.
When I say I do not like him as a stallion it has to do with conformation. I believe that a stallion needs to earn the right to keep his 'equipment' and use it by having very good conformation and working titles (your horse may have working titles). These need to be repeatable under different judges and scenarios.
All that being said, remember this.. Opinions are worth what you pay...
I like Cremellos. My first horse was a cremello though he was very white in his body and off white in his mane and tail.. one Watch eye and one solid navy blue eye. I have never met a cremello I have not liked as far as attitude and capacity to think and solve puzzles goes. Purely anecdotal but I often have wondered if the coloration is tied in to that attitude and puzzle solving ability.
Ya know.. you're right!
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Here's a couple of him in motion
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Personally I think he is breathtaking! What do you do with him?
How has he done in halter? His neck and shoulder are very nice!
He is a tad long in the back, I would like a longer more angled
pastern his look a bit upright, and his hindquarters in some of the
photos look pretty steep and not as rounded as I like, I wouldn't say
butt high.
I'm not sure I'd breed to him, I do have a rather red sorrel
mare so there would be the 15% of almost ANY color which would
be exciting! Keep us updated on his progress! Over all he's a bute!
How has he done in halter? His neck and shoulder are very nice!
He is a tad long in the back, I would like a longer more angled
pastern his look a bit upright, and his hindquarters in some of the
photos look pretty steep and not as rounded as I like, I wouldn't say
butt high.
I'm not sure I'd breed to him, I do have a rather red sorrel
mare so there would be the 15% of almost ANY color which would
be exciting! Keep us updated on his progress! Over all he's a bute!
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We just got him in February of this year. He just turned 4 in January too. When we got him, he had never been ridden or anything - just kept in a stall and turned out seldom. I've attached a photo that I took of him the day we went to pick him up. He said this was the first time he'd been turned out in over a month. I figure it tells you about how his manners were, etc. HOWEVER, he is now broke to ride and I'm hoping to send him to a reining trainer to be finished. He's not reining bred but I love the foundation that reining will put on one. He's VERY well behaved now and is the most comfortable horse I've ever sat on. Super floaty trot, rocking chair canter. Love him to death!
He hasn't been shown in halter yet - we're hoping to get his show career started next year.
I have one mare in foal to him - a appendix bred palomino mare - we plan on keeping the foal. The people we got him from bred him to 5 mares I think when he was a 3 year old. Would I have bred him that young? No, but that's just me. However the foals that they have are VERY well built little tanks.
He hasn't been shown in halter yet - we're hoping to get his show career started next year.
I have one mare in foal to him - a appendix bred palomino mare - we plan on keeping the foal. The people we got him from bred him to 5 mares I think when he was a 3 year old. Would I have bred him that young? No, but that's just me. However the foals that they have are VERY well built little tanks.
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What is not correct about his hind leg angles? I have an uneducated eye for the subtle differences in angles and am trying to learn a bit more. Can you expand on the hind leg angles, and what should we be seeing?I like him but not as a stallion. He is a bit long backed and his hind leg angles are not correct (lower stifle would help IMO). He may not be butt high but he is certainly at the least even (from this set of photos). He has a good front, nice shoulder and a good neck and head set. He has good bone.
When I say I do not like him as a stallion it has to do with conformation. I believe that a stallion needs to earn the right to keep his 'equipment' and use it by having very good conformation and working titles (your horse may have working titles). These need to be repeatable under different judges and scenarios.
All that being said, remember this.. Opinions are worth what you pay...
I like Cremellos. My first horse was a cremello though he was very white in his body and off white in his mane and tail.. one Watch eye and one solid navy blue eye. I have never met a cremello I have not liked as far as attitude and capacity to think and solve puzzles goes. Purely anecdotal but I often have wondered if the coloration is tied in to that attitude and puzzle solving ability.
His stifle is too high and his hock is a bit high as well. Compare these two images. The black is one of the best examples of overall correct conformation in a horse I have ever seen (Lonrho, Australian TB).
The black has a nice, short back with a smooth coupling. He has flat knees and is not calf knee'd like the Cremello. You can drop a plumb line fron the point of buttock and it will correctly follow the back of the cannon in a vertical line to the ground.
The Cremello has high hocks, a high stifle and he is a bit long in the back. The uneven ground is not helping him at all (pasterns look short). A lower stifle and a lower hock would improve his power back there. A shorter back and smooth coupling with help him even more.
The black has a nice, short back with a smooth coupling. He has flat knees and is not calf knee'd like the Cremello. You can drop a plumb line fron the point of buttock and it will correctly follow the back of the cannon in a vertical line to the ground.
The Cremello has high hocks, a high stifle and he is a bit long in the back. The uneven ground is not helping him at all (pasterns look short). A lower stifle and a lower hock would improve his power back there. A shorter back and smooth coupling with help him even more.
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In all honesty... He is what I consider a "typical" AQHA/APHA cremello stallion. A horse which, on the surface, gives you some wow factor... But if you paint him chestnut faults you wouldn't "normally" breed to pop up.
I don't find his back too long, of itself, but what does lend a lot of concern for a riding horse is his long loin and worse still is the LS joint placement which seems to fall quite a bit behind his hip. All of this is taking strength away from the horse's back...He does have good loin girth depth... Which will help HIM counter those faults, He may not have trouble with this if he is trained and worked correctly, but isn't really something you want to reproduce though... And depending on the mare he is bred to may end up with a foal which is worse.
Then there is his hind limb contruction... Which is not uncommon within AQHA, especially some bloodlines... But he is a bit straight behind, granted seeing him at about 8 years old may show he grows into it some. Many growing horses can look straight at times and balance out... But some stay straight.
He does appear calf kneed.
So neither his front limbs nor his hinds are "ideal"... From a structural standpoint.
His overall balance is downhill... My gut says he will stay that way. Which, again, is not uncommon for a Quarterhorse but it will make it harder for him to truly round out and move correctly.
He has a lovely front end, lovely neck shape, and shoulder. His chest looks deep and wide. His overall balance is not bad. He has strong points, and obviously a great temperament... He is a lovely, eye appealing horse, But in all honesty he is not, IMO, truly breeding quality... His faults are what I would consider "major weaknesses" involving both his back and his legs, even if they aren't all "extremely" bad, they are there.
I believe the last stats I read said that AQHA registers around 130,000 foals every year... IMO it is time for many Qh breeders to get tougher on their breedingstock. (consider that registries like KWPN, with inspections, register something like 15-30,000)
The thing about breeding is you really roll the dice, especially with a virtually unproven animal, on which traits will be passed on and which won't. We all know that every horse has faults, and choosing breedingstock is really about deciding which faults can be overlooked, which get cancelled by which strengths, and which are "no no's" to produce offspring which will have long, sound lives.
I don't find his back too long, of itself, but what does lend a lot of concern for a riding horse is his long loin and worse still is the LS joint placement which seems to fall quite a bit behind his hip. All of this is taking strength away from the horse's back...He does have good loin girth depth... Which will help HIM counter those faults, He may not have trouble with this if he is trained and worked correctly, but isn't really something you want to reproduce though... And depending on the mare he is bred to may end up with a foal which is worse.
Then there is his hind limb contruction... Which is not uncommon within AQHA, especially some bloodlines... But he is a bit straight behind, granted seeing him at about 8 years old may show he grows into it some. Many growing horses can look straight at times and balance out... But some stay straight.
He does appear calf kneed.
So neither his front limbs nor his hinds are "ideal"... From a structural standpoint.
His overall balance is downhill... My gut says he will stay that way. Which, again, is not uncommon for a Quarterhorse but it will make it harder for him to truly round out and move correctly.
He has a lovely front end, lovely neck shape, and shoulder. His chest looks deep and wide. His overall balance is not bad. He has strong points, and obviously a great temperament... He is a lovely, eye appealing horse, But in all honesty he is not, IMO, truly breeding quality... His faults are what I would consider "major weaknesses" involving both his back and his legs, even if they aren't all "extremely" bad, they are there.
I believe the last stats I read said that AQHA registers around 130,000 foals every year... IMO it is time for many Qh breeders to get tougher on their breedingstock. (consider that registries like KWPN, with inspections, register something like 15-30,000)
The thing about breeding is you really roll the dice, especially with a virtually unproven animal, on which traits will be passed on and which won't. We all know that every horse has faults, and choosing breedingstock is really about deciding which faults can be overlooked, which get cancelled by which strengths, and which are "no no's" to produce offspring which will have long, sound lives.
I will add that back when I was breeding horses I read somewhere that there were 2 mares for every uncut Quarterhorse Stallion (over 2 years old) in the United States. I was really set back by that.
We all like our horses. I have had some good ones. Just because we really like them and they are good does not mean they are good enough for the breeding shed or that we should breed them (same is true of dogs!).
We all like our horses. I have had some good ones. Just because we really like them and they are good does not mean they are good enough for the breeding shed or that we should breed them (same is true of dogs!).
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Elana and TheLastUnicorn thank you! That was very helpful.
That was very helpful.
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Elana hit it on the head... We all love our own horses... It makes these sorts of threads difficult because it can be hard to sit there and look at your own horse with the same critical eye that others will.
For that reason I sincerely hope the OP doesn't feel like a few of us are "picking on" her horse.
For that reason I sincerely hope the OP doesn't feel like a few of us are "picking on" her horse.
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I don't mind at all - if I did, I wouldn't have put his photo on here :O)
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What does calf-kneed mean?
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