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We're supposedly 'able to test anyone who needs it' but that's not the case. Unless symptoms are bad enough to be admitted to the hospital, or you are a healthcare worker already exposed or work at a packing plant with an outbreak, you still can't be tested here. I don't see the point in putting a bunch of restrictions on our state when we had 2 cases of community spread back in March and now have 400-600 per day and we're opening things back up. The only things that aren't allowed to be open in most counties are basically theaters, museums, and hair salons. Of course, churches now have zero restrictions. So one can't go to a movie but one can go to church and cough all over everyone... A few counties with 'widespread' covid activity are still closed, but the people there will just drive 15 miles to the next county over without restrictions to eat and shop and take the virus with them. "We need citizens to do the right thing." Why would they? They haven't so far. Recreation areas were packed last weekend. Parks are full of kids and parents. Hair stylists are doing people's hair at home because their salons aren't allowed to be open.

It is so, so frustrating to have done the right things for nearly 2 months only to be told to open back up when the virus is really only just now starting to ramp up in our area. The past two months were for nothing, apparently. Most people still aren't abiding by social distancing or wearing masks, we still can't find toilet paper, cleaning supplies, or hand sanitizer for the businesses opening, we still can't get testing.... what's changed?! Nothing. Only that people are bored and the governors are lifting restrictions under political pressure in spite of NO STATES meeting the criteria for even stage one-- which is a steady decline in cases for at least 2 weeks. Our cases are going UP daily, not down. It's pretty much an accepted thing that we're going to have a big virus spike in about three weeks but no one seems to care anymore. "Get sick and get it over with" seems to be the idea now, in spite of health care workers frantically trying to tell people it's still not safe to be out, there is no evidence of any immunity after being ill, and we don't know enough about the virus to be so lax about getting it. Some businesses are using common sense and staying closed, but others don't have a choice. Our restrictions lift Friday. The announcement was made yesterday at noon. By last evening, people were shooting off fireworks, having backyard parties with neighbors, walking in groups, and NO ONE was wearing a mask in the grocery store in spite of the huge sign as you come in requesting that people do so. It's like everyone's been let off the leash.

Pretty sure that most of the people in the USA right now would have not survived any past world disaster where there actually was some long-standing difficulty. We're supposed to be staying home to save lives and we won't even do that. As a species I guess we get what we deserve. As one woman said the other day, "Surely, we're not the same humans who survived Europe during the dark days of WWII and now we care so little about others we can't even stay home a few weeks?!"
 

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Well, maybe your area will reach herd immunity faster. I read that about 5% of the US population has now had this virus. We need 60 to 70% to get it in order to achieve basic herd immunity. Better get crackin'! (that's said with sarcasm)



I think that with a vaccine quite a ways off, our best bet is to focus on treatment protocols. Google up on recent research on antacids . . namely Famitodine (spell?) . . Pepcid. There is anecdotal association with NOT dying, and taking this antacid.
 

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3253 to 3410 cases and from 195 to 207 deaths. 157 case increase and 12 deaths in crease. Not sounding like we're meeting Step 1 criteria to me....or is it that new, common core math?
 

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IL is the same cases still going up - people not caring and doing what they want because they thing it's a "Chicago" thing. We need testing and it is just not happening
 

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I totally agree with @SilverMaple. Here in Texas the governor has decided to open things up, and has said that this new rule supercedes city restrictions. But the new rule is based on numbers (people with Covid) that are meaningless because we don't have anywhere near enough tests available. If I recall correctly, he said that we should have those tests available "soon." How about waiting to re-open until you have the tests that are necessary to give you the numbers you're saying you're basing your decision on?

I also agree that it really stinks that we've been doing all of this sheltering in place, and it's going to mean nothing because we're re-opening too soon. So, all of this time we have been spending at home, wasted.

I was also hoping to travel to our new place near Seattle to get some work done late this summer. I figured that the projections looked good and that, with caution, it would be safe. But now I'm thinking we're going to have another wave by mid-summer.

A lot of people have sacrificed a lot of things, and these governors are throwing it all away by bending to pressure and opening too early.
 

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Oh get this, the Iowa Department of Health released a tv commercial today telling people that they don't need to be tested (in spite of the governor telling everyone these past six weeks that testing is crucial) and they are now restricting the information about future cases' locations 'to protect patient privacy' a few days after some of the packing plants refused to share their number of positive tests among workers. They are crowing that 'we can now test 3,000 people per day!' But they still aren't testing most people who are ill and requesting testing, and at 3,000 people per day, that still means THREE YEARS before everyone would get even one test.

Yes, let's keep testing numbers down by telling people not to seek testing and then fudge the numbers released to the public. Oh, and you can freely go to church and pack in tight next to everyone else, but if you go to that same church for a wedding or funeral, you're limited to no more than 10 people in attendance. *face palm*

If you look at which states are reopening sensibly and which are basically throwing caution to the wind, it's pretty clear the reasons why.
 

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Yes, let's keep testing numbers down by telling people not to seek testing and then fudge the numbers released to the public. *face palm*
Right, and don't forget that we can also keep the numbers down by not really trying to get the testing resources we need. Fewer people tested = "fewer cases," right? So that's great! I guess we beat this thing, guys! Great work!

Oh, and one more "bonus" for Texas is that people who work in businesses that are re-opening but are worried about their health and don't want to go to work won't be eligible for unemployment benefits. So, you can stay home to keep yourself (and others) healthy but not be able to make rent, or you can go to work and face the prospect of getting sick (and, no doubt, not being able to pay for medical care). But the important part is that Texas doesn't have to keep paying unemployment to those guys, so we're saving some money!
 

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Right, and don't forget that we can also keep the numbers down by not really trying to get the testing resources we need. Fewer people tested = "fewer cases," right? So that's great! I guess we beat this thing, guys! Great work!

Oh, and one more "bonus" for Texas is that people who work in businesses that are re-opening but are worried about their health and don't want to go to work won't be eligible for unemployment benefits. So, you can stay home to keep yourself (and others) healthy but not be able to make rent, or you can go to work and face the prospect of getting sick (and, no doubt, not being able to pay for medical care).
Yep, same here. I suspect getting those whose businesses were closed off of unemployment eligibility and the state's dollars, more than anything else, is driving the 'reopening'. And people are thrilled! The comments to a news article on FB stating this has about 95% of respondents elated that "those who have been sitting on their butts for the past month now have to go back to work" and "I risk getting sick but have to work, so should you", "it's about time all the freeloaders have to go to work again" and "don't want to get sick? Stay home and starve or stop living in fear and go back to work."

I am losing faith entirely in the human race. We really do deserve complete extinction with how selfish we've become. The elephant in the room is also the fact that most people dying are older, have preexisting conditions, or are minorities. To many, they see no problem with these people dying so their tax dollars are not paying for nursing home care, Medicare, unemployment, housing benefits, and the like. The majority of workers 'forced back to work' tend to be blue collar workers, city employees, jobs held largely by minorities and immigrants, and lower-income earners. I nearly punched a guy in line ahead of me at the grocery store saying, and I quote: "This is killing old people, black people, brown people, fat people, and sick people... why exactly are we trying to stop it? Those people shouldn't be here anyway. They cost too much." Others agreed with him.... and he's a pastor at a local church.....

I wish I was making that up, but I'm not.
 

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That's so sick and twisted @SilverMaple. But let's be honest, the people who think and talk about others that way act on their hatred and racism all the time, not just when there's a pandemic. My brother, an EMT in a southern city, once told me he was glad when he went to shooting calls in one part of the city because that often meant "they were killing each other off so there would be less calls like that in the future." HINT: my family is white, the community he "serves" is African American. I haven't spoken with him in a long time, but it's so sad to know he's raising two little girls to carry on that disgusting racism. Makes you wonder how the US stays intact as a single country in the future. But, stopping that train of thought now as it's clearly political.
 

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food for thought.





 

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Meh, he’s extrapolating numbers from the tested to the entire population. However, the people which were tested were selected for testing because they had reason to be selected - they were either sick or were in contact. In statistics speak- this sample is not representative of the population. I am not saying he is wrong - just that he cannot use the tested sample and extrapolate - the sample would need to be random and stratified to be representative. This is like saying most customers that I see at my make up shop are women so most people out there must be women. Likewise, most people who came to him precisely because they were sick.

Again, I am not saying that he is wrong, just that the argument he is making is scientifically wrong.

This is a real world example: a relative of mine works in a public hospital in Africa. Four out of five patients she sees are HIV positive. Not because everyone out there is HIV positive or because she is an HIV specialist but because people with HIV tend to get sick a lot. It called a self-selecting sample. The true HIV rate within that country is one in five people in the working population and lower overall.
 

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Hi, Italian here, precisely from one of the most affected regions in the north. The situation is dramatic, they finally announced the phase 2 yesterday but it seems like not much will change. Stores should re open in June such as restaurants and bars. No idea about the borders, thing that actually concerns me because my boyfriend lives abroad. Some members of my family were tested positive and my mother was even hospitalized. It was hard, but she's feeling way better now. It's crazy to see this whole thing happen in front of our eyes

Inviato dal mio JSN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
 

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Slovakia here again. We are either lucky or it hasnt started properly yet.

Current statistics say:
81338 people tested,
1391 positive,
22 dead,
484 recovered,
180 people hospitalised (53 with covid or 127 with covid symptoms avaiting testing, none on ventilation).

We are slowly starting to open non-essential shops but they are under strict instructions that they need to follow (opening hours, number of customers inside, desinfection/gloves...). For almost 2 months now everyone needed to wear masks outside, schools have been closed, shopping centers also closed, no gatherings allowed at all, no traveling abroad - all those rules still apply.

We are now testing more people and interestingly if you want to be sure, you can get tested by private laboratories. Of course you need to pay (70 euro) but the fact that you can do that means that more and more people are getting tested either because they have to or because they can (we are now at around 5k tests daily).
 

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We're strongly encouraged' to open even though it's not safe, the next county over is one of the highest growing hot-spots for covid in the country, our building is too small to allow for proper social distancing, we don't have a reliable supply chain of needed sanitizing products, toilet paper, PPE, and the required hand sanitizer and wipes for each person in the door to use much less the staff to clean everything touched after every person in the door, and we can 'suggest' but not require safety precautions like social distancing and masks. People were wearing them a couple of weeks ago, but now are not. I feel like the safety of myself and my employees is being thrown to the wolves.

And for those wondering, yes, this definitely infects children. A Tyson meat plant nearby is testing every employee and their families. As of yesterday, the first day of testing, nearly 30 children have tested positive--- about half are symptomatic, half are asymptomatic so far. And once it became known that children were included in the cases at relatively high numbers, their county clamped down and is now no longer releasing the ages of anyone testing positive 'to avoid panicking the public and affecting new-hire rates' now that it has been decided it's illegal to close a meat plant due to covid among the workers. So we now don't know how many of those still being tested this week are workers and how many are families/kids.
 

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A very good article, written by two statesmen in my state, made the astute point that the BEST economic plan is to very, very conservative on opening business . IT is better, in the long run, to delay openning (to act on the side of caution) because what REALLY matters for economic health is consumer confidence.


If people do not FEEL safe, they will not come out to buy/spend. If there is a rebound in the virus, all the confidence that was slowly built by the first lengthy shutdown will be utterly lost, and people will fear that even a second shutdown will do nothing for them. Fear will become more rampant, and people will be afraid to go out and buy even when the next wave subsides.


Additionally, every illness that requires hospitalization costs the economy beaucoup bucks. So, openning too soon, causing another wave, COSTS the economy more than is gained by openning soon.


The best thing for the economy would be for the Federal Government to take the reins , begin massive support of developmet of testing, and vaccine research. The faster the illness can be contained, and / or treated better, the faster REAL consumer confidence will return, and consumer confidence is absolute key to a healthy economy.
 

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I totally agree that consumer confidence is the key to a healthy economy, coupled with people who aren't saddled with huge medical bills or dead.... dead people don't spend money. Sick people cost money. I don't see why our country doesn't seem to realize that opening too soon will be more catastrophic than too late, and a large spike in illness/death would tank the economy even more and slow its recovery far longer than extending closures for awhile, even if it means paying every citizen deemed non-essential to stay home. Essential and frontline workers are safer if everyone else is home and going out only for necessities, too.
 

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CLOSED for review. Wandering off topic.




EDIT: some new political content has been removed from this thread. The thread will remain closed until we've decided what to do with it, since it has taken political turn again, after few mod notes and warnings. People who need to be contacted (for example for sharing political content) will be contacted later, once the Moderating Team has made some more permanent or at least long-lasting decisions about this thread.
 

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This thread is closing permanently unless the moderation team can be convinced to reopen in a private discussion via a Talk to the Team Privately thread..


The decision to remove political based discussions (N&P) was not made lightly.
This thread was allowed as a space to share and moderated when politics crept in.
At this point the thread has turned political in nature. That is the nature of the beast. Due to the direction the thread has taken it will remain closed as there are sufficient alternate locations for the politics to be discussed.


hlg.
forum team moderator
 
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