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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Meet Kiddin Fancy Dee, aka Fancy. She will be 6 in March and I have been trying to sell her for about a year now :-/ I was hoping to get some critiques on her and see if maybe I was asking too much, or if she had any obvious flaws. The video is from when I came home from my first year of college and she hadn't been ridden (nor had I) in about 6 months!

She is APHA registered, not spooky, very smart (almost too much for her own good!), flashily (<--?) colored being that she is a light roan (hard to see in picture), trailers, stands for farrier, etc.. I guess she would be considered green broke, but she has been successfully ridden on the road and even competed as a 2y/o in the Futurity class at the Texas State 4H Horse Show. She does have a bit of an attitude and can be disrespectful at times. I am asking $1750, but am open to negotiations because I realize this is a high price for a fairly inexperienced horse.


 

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I don't think I would pay that much for her. I am seeing a horse with minimal training (From the video, it looks like all she knows is circles) and particularly to the left I see her dumping on her forehand. I also see her bracing against you on the stop and backup, which would get better with a lot of suppling and flexion.

Also I would be very interested to see all four conformation photos, and a closeup of the front legs. I have eyesight issues and the zoom on my laptop doesn't work for some odd reason, but I see something not quite right there. Long fetlocks maybe, or long toes? Does anyone else see it? I generally try to avoid conformation critique because of my bad eyes, but I'm interested to see what a more experienced conformation critiquer has to say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the reply. Like I said, that video was after not being ridden for 6 months haha but yes, she has had minimal training. Mostly that's because the only place I have to work with at my house is that round pen :-/ (which could explain why she is so much on the forehand?) I made a post about this in the tack thread, the reason she is bracing against me is her sensitive mouth. It gets sunburned and chapped really bad and even that O-ringed snaffle makes the corners of her mouth bleed sometimes. I'm not sure if it hurts her when I pull back, or if she is just being stubborn. My question in the tack thread was if a bosal might work better for her... Would you happen to know?

About the legs, I think her hooves are just a little too grown out in this picture. Could that be it? I've also always thought her pasterns are a little too straight and possibly long. I only have a shot of the other side and some random ones:




I actually found these more recent ones on my computer:
 

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I see that she is sickle hocked, long cannon bones, butt high & downhill, long back, ewe neck and looks a tad cow hocked. SHE IS A GORGEOUS GIRL THO!!
 

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Yes, I think you are asking too much. She is a lovely mare, but she is quite green, and it doesn't seem like she has many miles on her. Especially in Texas, the horse market isn't great right now. However, she does look like she has potential with more training, so that keeps her worth up a bit.

Sorrel, I think her toes are just a tad long....her pasterns are also a bit low-slung, but nothing that would be a deal-breaker (for me, at least).

If she takes to the bosal well, that could definitely help her out. I would try it and see how it works for her.
 

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There are several reasons why horses don't sell in a years time. I think the primary reason is value for the money.

A seller needs to do their homework and know what horses of equal looks and ability are selling for - not their asking price but actual money in hand. Too many sellers put "potential" as value - truthfully, it is worthless.

Sellers also think too much about how much the horse has cost them in care and training - you will never get that back out of the horse at the level that most horses are at.

Time of the year is also a consideration as well as local conditions. Texas has gone through a devastating growing season and hay is very very scarce. People have been selling off livestock at firesale prices.

I'm afraid that if that were my horse, I would be asking 1/2 of what you are and take the best offer that came along.
 

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I'm afraid that if that were my horse, I would be asking 1/2 of what you are and take the best offer that came along.
I have to agree with that. If you've been trying to sell her for about a year, obviously there's something about her that people don't like. And if it were me looking to buy her, I'd start with the price. Most people looking to buy don't want to spend a fortune, especially in this economy. I would maybe start at 1000, possibly less, and go from there.
 

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What I'm seeing in the video is a very green horse who is just kind of going through the paces. She's too fast and strung out for Western Pleasure, yet to slow and unresponsive for reining or cutting and her conformation does not lend well to any speed events such as barrels even if you could get her too move. Definitely not breeding prospect either.

Plus, as the other's said, she does have a few big conformation flaws that would also get in the way of someone being successful in a show or 4H arena.

She is a doll, I love her head, and she has fabulous color. I do see her as a wonderful trail horse and a lovely casual riding horse for someone who just wants to hang out on trails. Unfortunately most people don't want to pay a lot of $$ for a "just for fun" sort of horse.

Horses like her go around here from 200 to maybe 600 if the person were lucky.

But this is only MY opinion....like I said, she's a doll and actually something I would look for as a horse for my daughter who just want a "for fun" horse to ride on trails.

My advice is this, try to work with her over winter if you can. If you can put her in a little training, even better... you might get her collected up for WP by spring if it's done correctly. People are more likely to buy in spring than winter, after the hay crops come out as it's harder to feed horses over winter, especially if you can't use them until spring anyway. So long story short, if she were my horse, I'd put work into her over winter and try again in spring with a slightly lower asking price. I think if she's looking a little more like a WP horse you may have some lower level 4Hrs interested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you all for your critiques! Sometimes it takes a fresh eye to look over a horse! It is very muddy here at the moment, and like I said, I only have the round pen to work with. However I am determined this summer to really try to finish her off! There is a new arena opening up by me in April so when I get home from college I will have a real place to work with her. Hopefully a new type of bridle will help our sessions be more productive.
 

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She's cute, but like others said, the price tag is too much for a horse like her. In my area, you could maybe get $600 for her. Possibly $800 if she has superb bloodlines. As for her general conformation, her back is long, she's fairly downhill, and I really don't like the look of her front pastern angle. For pleasure riding, it would be fine, but for anything requiring performance, there is a good risk of injury there. Too long and too much angle.

As for the bracing and head slinging when you apply pressure to the reins...have you had her teeth checked? It strikes me that you are a bit quick with your hands and your release is timed wrong. That may be why she's not a supple as she could be.
 

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Yeah I agree with smrobs.. have you had her teeth checked?

Also, O ring bits or "loose ring" have a tendency to jingle in a horse's mouth (or so a lot of people and research has told me.) I ride in an eggbutt snaffle and my horse has a very sensitive mouth too, so the kind of bit fixture could be something to look at. But it looks like this horse needs a lot more work, favorably on the ground. So the price is very high in my opinion.

Beautiful horse though :)

Here's that article:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are there any exercises I can do to strengthen her back? The vet checks her teeth about once a year when I get their all around check-up and shots and stuff and he has never said anything about them.

What do you mean about the release? Since we are in a round pen and she has no where to go I try to only use my seat and voice when stopping her, though I do have to pull back to get her to back up. I did notice my reins are a little tight at some points. It could be my hands, but the fact that the corner of her mouth bleeds still concerns me. I don't feel like I am being that harsh with her?

I found a picture of her nose. I mostly looks just flaky but it really does bother her :-/ She doesn't like you to touch it. Someone mentioned photo sensitivity earlier or in another post about how a bosal might work better for her, is there anything that can be done about that if it is the cause?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I tried a bit once (sorry I'm not sure exactly what it's called) where the inside part was like that O-ringed snaffle except it had super short shanks and a chin strap. She didn't like it much (I assumed because of the extra pressure from the chin strap and the shanks hurt) and I didn't like it because the shanks were basically worthless lol I could look in to a different snaffle like you said (your article didn't post) but I was also thinking of trying a bitless bridle like a bosal or something. I know some people start their horses in those so I figured I could still accomplish that training she needs with it.

She is very pushy on the ground and indifferent to any type of punishment she receives for it :-/ I kinda just don't know what to do with her. I can't get good riding sessions in with her fighting the bit (whether it be me or the pain) and nothing I do on the ground seems to have any affect with her. It is partially my fault as I am gone 9 months of the year for college so she doesn't get worked with much except in the summer. I realize now the price is set to high. I want to really fix her up this summer in that new arena and then try selling her again... If I can fix my problems.
 

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A pink sensitive nose needs sunscreen 24/7 or they will burn like no other. And tea tree gel or aloe vera when they are sensitive/burned.

Also.. loose rings tend to pinch lips by how they turn. Eggbutts can too but not as common. D-rings can't pinch at all. I have no experience with bosals so I can't offer advice there.

To strengthen her back.. probably building up more muscle would help. She needs to learn to ride long and low. There are a lot of threads on here that can get you started.

Here's one of my favourites:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horsehelp-building-up-your-horses-back-72621/

Also.. have you thought about taking lessons with her? A good trainer can really help you both turn around and do your best.

Good luck!

EDIT: Sorry... the link doesn't work for me anymore? But here's a yahoo answers thing about them. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110613203227AABwSZh

I'll try to find another good article on loose ring snaffles.

EDIT2: http://horses.about.com/od/choosingandusingtack/p/loosering.htm
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-exclusives/loose-ring-o-ring-snaffle.aspx

Still looking..

EDIT 3: Sorry just came back from the barn.. my brain is still there :p
 

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Apologize for the double post.....

She is very pushy on the ground and indifferent to any type of punishment she receives for it :-/ I kinda just don't know what to do with her. I can't get good riding sessions in with her fighting the bit (whether it be me or the pain) and nothing I do on the ground seems to have any affect with her. It is partially my fault as I am gone 9 months of the year for college so she doesn't get worked with much except in the summer. I realize now the price is set to high. I want to really fix her up this summer in that new arena and then try selling her again... If I can fix my problems.
Maybe you need to tape how she is when you work with her like leading, grooming, ground work..

Also.. you don't necessarily want to "punish" the horse.. it's more moving the horse's feet, preferably AWAY from you. Since moving feet is work, the horse will usually stop fussing around. Take today for example.. I had to correct my horse many times because he refused to stand still. Every time he moved, I would undo what he did (if he took 3 steps sideways and 4 steps forward.. I'd first back him 4 steps and then make him go 3 steps sideways the other way.) Then after he was where I had him, I'd make him stand, and then he would get release (stroked on his face.) Eventually he stood, and he realized it was nicer to stand still than be carted all over the place.

So if your horse is being pushy.. she needs to be sent back, away from you.. OUT of your space. And if the horse refuses to yield to you (as in you ask her to move off and she stands there) then you need to get her working and moving those feet.

Videos would definitely be helpful.. but even explaining what you're doing is also helpful. There are tons of helpful and knowledgeable people on the forum. If you need anything, definitely ask :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for all the info about the bits! I will look into those later tonight when I have more time. That thread about building back muscle is awesome too! I would love to take lessons with her, part of me just wants to send her to a trainer to be finished :-/ It's just expensive so that's the only thing holding me back.

That's a good idea, I'll see if my parents are around next time I play with her and see if they can tape it.

I have done that thing that you mentioned, putting them back in their place? I do it alot when she moves forward when we are stopped. But when she is only handled a few months out of the year, it's hard to be consistent and give her the training she really needs. Which is why I am selling her, so she doesn't waste away.

I think what it is is she just doesn't respect me. When I saddle her she will swing her butt around towards me and park herself up against the trailer haha I try to hold my ground so that she just bumps into the saddle, and that works most of the time. But she won't scoot over if I push her rump. Even in the saddle when we work on side passing, she sidepasses into the pressure instead of away from it. I get the feelings she looks at me like I'm just a silly human! Kinda like a cat would -_- She has also been aggressive at times when I ask her to do something she doesn't want to do; such as scooting over.

What a mess :(
 

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seeing "green broke" on a 6 yo horse raises red flags for me. I figure a horse that old still green has spent many years or most of the time not being handled and living life as a pasture ornament. The people wanting trail horses are gonna drive right by "green broke". And as others have said she may not be suited for other sports. Her color will get you 800, some real dedicated training and trail miles may get you to 1000.
 

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It sounds more like she's confused on what you're asking.. maybe she's not being rude but maybe she has be taught (remember horses always are learning) that when you apply pressure, she moves into it. The way I'd handle this problem is keep the pressure on and cluck and don't give release (stop the pressure) until she makes one step into the direction you want. What helps is standing facing her with the leadrope (fastened on her halter) and spin it by her hip clockwise if she's on your right, counter-clockwise if she's on your left.. until she moves away from it. Be sure to praise her!

I see what you mean by feeling like she's being wasted.. well it's perfectly fine to let her just be a horse for 9 months of the year. Eventually one day you can dedicate more time to her, and when you really get her swinging during those 3 months (guessing summer break and whatnot) you can think about leasing her so she doesn't forget her training. It's worth looking into if you have some time before you sell her. Because how she is right now.. it's a shame to sell her now. You won't get a lot and you're losing your horse.

But by all means, if she's not the right horse for you, then sell her and cut your losses.

I hope the information I provided is helpful! :)
 

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Think she overall is pretty cute mare.It is her training or lack of it that is probably making her a more difficult sell.That said your price would not be that out of line for the market around here.:)
 
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