[bayleysours]

Hey everyone!

I have a gelding that I sold, then had to buy back because he wasn't getting fed. He lost about 250 pounds in about 2 months. I've had him back since September and ever since I've got him back he's had ulcers. I've never had a horse with ulcers so I have no experience with them.

I haven't had him scoped but I can't ride him currently. Every time I get him saddled he goes to bucking like a bronc. When I had him the first go he rode around great and wasn't a bucker. I think he gets nervous about the saddling and will walk around fine but once I go to trotting and loping he breaks in half.

He's been getting the maximum dose of Purina Outlast (2 cups) since I got him back, and I'm currently treating him with Ulcerguard. I keep hay in front of him 24/7 and keep him turned out as much as possible. What are some other things I can do or try to help him out? I really want to get him rideable again, but don't want to dump tons of money into him.

Thanks!!

 

[sugarthehorse]

There is this liquid called Ulcer Plus. It is around $100 dollars for a gallon. It has aloe vera and sea buckthorn berry pulp in it which is an amazing help for the digestive track. I don't know if that is any better than the Ulcerguard or if it's even more affordable but I'm just putting it out there as another option.

I knew a horse who was on medicine for her feet as she has navicular. Anyway, she got ulcers almost right away from the medicines so they began giving her the UlcerPlus and it worked like a charm.

Also, I just did a bit of research on Ulcerguard and that is used to help prevent horses from getting ulcers. Gastrogard is used to treat existing ulcers in the horses stomach.

 

[ksbowman]

Remember there are gastric ulcers , which is fore gut. The Ulcerguard works on them. There is hind gut ulcers or hind gut acidosis and the hind gut will not respond to gastric (stomach ) meds. The upper ulcers can be scoped and seen. The hind gut is more of an inflammation of the walls and sometimes cannot be confirmed until an autopsy is done. Meds for hind gut have to be encapsulated to make it thru the acid in the stomach and then open up in the hind gut. We've owned horses for over 40 years and never had a problem with ulcers or knew if they had them. Now a current horse has them. Go figure. Unfortunately I've had to do quite a bit of research on them.

 

[rambo99]

I've been feeding purina ultium competition has outlast supplement in it. Also bought a bag of outlast it's 40 lbs at 38$.

My gelding has for a long time been cinchy pins ears threatening to bite. I had treated for ulcers with ulcer guard did sulcrafate. All this lessened his cinchy behavior never really totally stopped it.

Been feeding the outlast and ultium competition now 2 weeks. Outlast supplement I give 2 times a day with his vit/min plus 2 lbs of ultium competition so he eats everything.

I rode him today when I did cinch up on bareback pad....no ear pinning no threatening to bite. He stood quiet calm an relaxed. This is huge improvement ,that I never saw with treating with ulcer guard and sulcrafate.

Did both for literally months. I spent big $$$$$$ didn't get the results. I have gotten with purina products for gastric issues.

The outlast an ultium made the big change ,i never got doing other treatments. A lot cheaper to at 38$ for outlast an 26$ for ultium competition.

I have for almost 2 years kept this horses diet forage based. Fed no commercial feeds until now.

 

[gottatrot]

The Purina Outlast basically has calcium and magnesium. That's it. Not really a good gut supplement. For actual ulcers, Omeprazole is the only drug known to work. Ulcergard is only 1/4 of the dose needed to treat ulcers. It would be a lot cheaper if you can get your vet to give you compounded Omeprazole, so you can treat at a full dose for at least several weeks. If you stop giving Omeprazole, it is very important to wean off it slowly or it can actually cause a recurrence of ulcers. For hindgut ulcers there is a supplement called Equishure that has the encapsulated bicarbonate that @ksbowman talks about.
Often for horses with a history of bad ulcers, it can be important to also give probiotics and prebiotics to help restore the intestines to a good balance. LMF Digest 911 is a good supplement with prebiotics and probiotics. Often just feeding free choice hay and getting rid of grain is not enough.
It is important to not exercise the horse while treating for ulcers, and after the ulcers are healed, it will be important to never exercise the horse without feeding roughage first.

 

[gottatrot]

I've been feeding purina ultium competition has outlast supplement in it. Also bought a bag of outlast it's 40 lbs at 38$.

My gelding has for a long time been cinchy pins ears threatening to bite. I had treated for ulcers with ulcer guard did sulcrafate. All this lessened his cinchy behavior never really totally stopped it.

Been feeding the outlast and ultium competition now 2 weeks. Outlast supplement I give 2 times a day with his vit/min plus 2 lbs of ultium competition so he eats everything.

I rode him today when I did cinch up on bareback pad....no ear pinning no threatening to bite. He stood quiet calm an relaxed. This is huge improvement ,that I never saw with treating with ulcer guard and sulcrafate.

Did both for literally months. I spent big $$$$$$ didn't get the results. I have gotten with purina products for gastric issues.

The outlast an ultium made the big change ,i never got doing other treatments. A lot cheaper to at 38$ for outlast an 26$ for ultium competition.

This is interesting...since it is a calcium and magnesium supplement, perhaps he was still not getting enough magnesium? Horses with musculoskeletal issues can need very large amounts.

 

[rambo99]

This is interesting...since it is a calcium and magnesium supplement, perhaps he was still not getting enough magnesium? Horses with musculoskeletal issues can need very large amounts.

Could be but supplement I feed was made up by horse tech. It should cover his vit/mins. I wish I had videoed him being cinched up two weeks ago,then again today. The difference in him is like night and day.

He was a whole different horse to ride slower paced an just more relaxed. Did I expect this kind of change heck no. I thought I was probably wasting money on something that wouldn't do as it says.

 

[bayleysours]

Thanks everyone for the input! I was trying to avoid getting him scoped and just treat him for ulcers. My vet told me that the only difference between the Gastroguard and Ulcerguard was that Gastroguard you had to have a prescription for it, but that without scoping him he couldn't give me a prescription.

I will definitely look into the Purina Ultium Competition and the UlcerPlus!

 

[ksbowman]

I have been feeding mine Outlast twice a day and feed Purina Strategy GX with outlast for the last 9 months. It helped some at first so I continued. You can buy Omeprazole paste from Valley Vet online. I've done the paste once and the power once for the 30 recommended dose. My girl continued to be grumpy tightening cinch, acted like she wanted to nip me, rear flanks very touchy pinning ears and lifting rear leg as if wanting to kick and switching tail. When riding the walk was fine, asking for trot or lope she'd pin her ears and act up. Lope I would get a couple bucks or crow hops. The Equisure has gotten rid of the ground symptoms but, the weather hasn't allowed for me to ride and see actions under saddle. @walkinthewalk has helped me immensely on the hind gut issues. She is so helpful, thanks so much walkin. There is a lot of info on the internet on these issues I recommend reading all you can.

 

[livelovelaughride]

I watched an interesting video clip from Horse and Country TV (Understanding Ulcers) that also spoke of feeding corn oil (1/2 cup twice a day). I believe the intent is to help coat the stomach lining, I imagine that would be for foregut ulcers. There were good images of what normal lining versus ulcerating tissue looked like. The whole scoping thing makes me queasy. I don't know if I can stand around and watch my horse getting done!

 

[Milton'sMama]

He was a whole different horse to ride slower paced an just more relaxed. Did I expect this kind of change heck no. I thought I was probably wasting money on something that wouldn't do as it says.

Yeah, magnesium oxide (which is in outlast) will do that. I have a horse that has to be on mag in order to be his relaxed, happy best. He's a good boy regardless, but quite obviously much more comfortable with himself and the world around him when he's supplemented with magnesium.

 

[ksbowman]

@livelovelaughride , How do you get a horse to eat a 1/2 cup of corn oil per feeding. I put a table spoon full on my horses feed and she refused to touch it after one taste. I thought it would be good for her coat but, the only way it would help hers is by rubbing it on her.

 

[livelovelaughride]

IDK I only used 2 ounces of camelina oil mixed in with his beet pulp and my old guy was fairly picky. I was always amazed at people whose horses would happily eat those vitamin e pellets when they were top dressed, same with the anti histamines you could serve as pellets on top of something like beet pulp or cubes.
Will your horse tolerate aloe vera juice? That seems tasteless (to me).

 

[PoptartShop]

My mare had ulcers 2 years ago & I tried Outlast, it did absolutely nothing. I threw it out LOL. Stuff was useless IMO.

It's good he's getting 24/7 forage, that'll definitely help. UlcerGard is good for treatment, but for prevention (& people have also used it to treat, just a higher amount) I use pure marshmallow root (the powder or the textured version, either one) and toss it in her food each day (2x a day). I've heard aloe juice can help as well, but I never used it.

 

[rambo99]

I found marshmallow root and aloe vera juice useless for prevention of ulcers.

My gelding was on both and had ulcers flare up, and had to do 60 days of ulcergaurd. So not wasting money on marshmallow root or aloe vera neither prevent ulcers. What works for some horses doesn't work for all.

Outlast and ultium competition have made a difference, in his ear pinning biting when cinched up. Whether it keeps working I don't know. For now it's working when it doesn't help anymore I won't buy any more.

 

[livelovelaughride]

My guy was scoped today. There are no symptoms of ulcers apart from not wanting to move forward...he will, given enough pressure from the trainer. So no girthiness or othet classic signs. But he does play with his mouth especially in the stall (he's out 24/7).
Results: vet found lots of the foregut ulcers, grade 3/4; and glandular hindgut ulcers that were bleeding. Must be painful for him!!
Rx: 2 months of gastroguard plus sucrafalate for 66 days. I'm hoping to get a sweeter more pleasant horse back after this. Im glad to have scoped and found the issues.

 

[livelovelaughride]

Yeah, magnesium oxide (which is in outlast) will do that. I have a horse that has to be on mag in order to be his relaxed, happy best. He's a good boy regardless, but quite obviously much more comfortable with himself and the world around him when he's supplemented with magnesium.

Is/are there different forms of Magnesium oxide and what is the typical dose for, say 1100 lb horse? I will do some research. I am having a heck of a time trying to bring Outlast into Canada.

 

[rambo99]

Outlast only worked for a short time for my horse. He's back to ear pinning when being cinched up, back to being fast paced. None of the supplements for ulcers have any lasting effects. Been through a few now.
End result doesn't work for long. Now have 4 different ulcer supplements none of which work.

 

[bayleysours]

Little update for everyone. Monday was Shorty's last day on UlcerGuard. Last night I saddled him up and walked him around on the ground just to see if I could notice any difference. Use to be, as soon as I saddled him up he would be super nervous and be humped up ready to buck as soon as the saddle hit his back. Last night I saddled him up and he never tried to buck or looked like he really thought about it. I don't know if it worked 100% since I never went faster than a walk. I'm going to be keeping him on Purina Outlast, but am also looking for another supplement just to double up on them.

 

[livelovelaughride]

.I don't know if you have Visceral in the US, but my horse was on that from day 1. It didn't do anything from what the results of the scoping showed (both fore/hind gut and bleeding ulcers). He's been on it for over 100 days.