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Discussion Starter #21
Saddle bag was giving sound advice. Tubby why ask, then be rude .
Telling me not to second guess the vet is "sound" advice?? Sorry I just lost one animal because I didn't second guess the vet till it was too late... I'm not about to lose another. I was asking opinions from people that use different supplements so I knew more for when the vet came. Then the vet didn't do crap. So yes I will second guess the vet when asking for a complete physical because of all these little things and he replies that I do not work her enough after he took one quick look.
 

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It is true - we aren't vets - we are mostly people who own horses with varying levels of experience and try to share that experience with others
Vitamin A deficiency doesn't cause rain rot or mud fever - the condition is caused by a bacteria that behaves like a fungus - so it thrives on moist, warm places that don't get enough access to the air. A horses back is a warm place, the bacteria can live dormant on it, in the winter they get a thick coat - better still - when it rains the coat gets plastered down and the air can't get too it and the bacteria goes wild - and any sores especially on the legs then get infected with other bacteria from the soil and feces in the soil.
If a horse has a good source of Vitamin A (also E, D & C) in its food then they give the immune system a boost and it can fight off infection before it gets a chance to dig in - adding some extra as a supplement will help your horse
Using products that have a combined anti-bacterial/anti-fungal effect will also help kill the infection from the outside - hydrogen peroxide, hibiclens, iodine based solutions and there are new products coming out all the time that are specifically aimed at clearing it up
Keeping the horses coat well brushed so the hair can fluff up and mud and dirt don't get chance to gather on it and clog the skin will also help clear it up and prevent new occurrences - never put a blanket on a dirty horse especially if its wet or damp - it will incubate the bacteria and grow it faster
If the horse is carrying good weight then the lack of topline is only going to be improved by fitness work - if you want extra weight then change to a feed that's higher fat content than the one you're using which is quite low
 

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Why are you second-guessing the vet? If your horse has high withers don't expect it's back to look well muscled. It takes a lot of work, true collection to build those up. Too much vitamin A can have detrimental effects on any animal. I'd never recommend it as I'm not a vet and neither are the others on here.
And vets are not nutritionists. Many of the people on this forum have done more research into equine nutrition than vets are required to take in school (which is very, very little). A good vet who specializes in horses should have done additional reading/study on his/her own to provide sound nutrition advice, but you can't assume they've done so, and it doesn't sound like OP's vet has any interest in this area.

(For the record, I'm also not saying that you should listen to any and all advice from the internet. Take everything with a grain of salt and use common sense!)
 
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Like I said now its cold and we haven't been doing much at all. But over the summer I would ride 3 to 4 times a week walk, trot, canter for about an hour or so I also jump2'-2'3" and we attempt to barrel race. Not way hard work but enough that you would think her spine wouldn't stick out. Her butt and leg muscles are huge it is just her back. She really hasn't lost any noticeable amount of muscle this winter. We are starting to use draw reins thinking rounding up might help her back.
Please please dont use draw reins on your mare! that wont solve the problem at all, she needs to learn to properly collect using her hind end, that does not happen overnight, especially on a OTTB that is used to running head up and on the forehand! draw reins still keep them heavy on the forehand and builds the wrong muscles! My mare has just started to collect properly and not for long periods of time either, and this took 6 months, are you in a rush? and if so why?

One of my ex-trainers used to ride my mare once a week, it was to "fix her problems" i.e she was milking me for $$, (i was a new horse owner and my mare was green) she used draw reins on my mare without me knowing, when i found out i fired her, and now nobody rides my mare...ever. She became arena sour, would pin her ears at the saddle, and back away from me when i would approach her in her stall with it.

If your trainer cannot teach you to properly collect without bandaids, find one that can. If you are training her yourself, find a trainer to help you.
 
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I would say that your horse is probably as a low immune system or an allergy to Dermatophilus congolensis the most common bacterial cause of mud fever and rain rot.

As it took so long for her to heal a wound earlier I would say it is her immune system.

I would put her on an anti oxidant to boost her immune system. I use one for anything and everything here in the UK but you can't get it in the US.

I all my years with horses I have had two that were susceptible to this bacteria. One of these only had to get a tiny nick on him and he would swell like a balloon.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Please please dont use draw reins on your mare! that wont solve the problem at all, she needs to learn to properly collect using her hind end, that does not happen overnight, especially on a OTTB that is used to running head up and on the forehand! draw reins still keep them heavy on the forehand and builds the wrong muscles! My mare has just started to collect properly and not for long periods of time either, and this took 6 months, are you in a rush? and if so why?

One of my ex-trainers used to ride my mare once a week, it was to "fix her problems" i.e she was milking me for $$, (i was a new horse owner and my mare was green) she used draw reins on my mare without me knowing, when i found out i fired her, and now nobody rides my mare...ever. She became arena sour, would pin her ears at the saddle, and back away from me when i would approach her in her stall with it.

If your trainer cannot teach you to properly collect without bandaids, find one that can. If you are training her yourself, find a trainer to help you.
I have only used them twice and she is already framing up nicely. She is fine with them no attitude or anything. I'm not planning on always riding in them just once in a while to reminder her how she should hold her self.
 

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If you are concerned about a deficiency in her diet then get your forage analysed so you actually know what she is getting and then adjust feed as necessary. Compromised immune system can be the result of poor uptake of vitamins and minerals and I have known some horses' thrush and skin problems improve dramatically on balanced minerals to forage.
 

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Daily probiotics really help my horses with a variety of issues. One of my mares had such horrible rain rot and mud fever, when I got her from the race farm, she barely had any hair and was in pain. She was also stocked up badly. It too about 3 months to completely get rid of, because topical treatment is difficult when it's very cold, but she has been shiny and healthy through the last few winters.

Good quality feed, regular grooming, regular topical treatment and probiotics.

Disinfect your brushes and wash her blanket regularly, as well.
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I have only used them twice and she is already framing up nicely. She is fine with them no attitude or anything. I'm not planning on always riding in them just once in a while to reminder her how she should hold her self.
Apologies if I'm mis-reading your post but side reins are not designed for riding in and should never be used that way
Just because a horse looks to be in frame by the way its holding its head and neck that is actually forced into frame by fixed pressure and not the same as a horse being 'ridden into frame' which is what builds up back muscle - and should be used in conjunction with stretching exercises at the walk
 

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Why are you second-guessing the vet? If your horse has high withers don't expect it's back to look well muscled. It takes a lot of work, true collection to build those up. Too much vitamin A can have detrimental effects on any animal. I'd never recommend it as I'm not a vet and neither are the others on here.
Not all vets are "good" ones! Second opinions are awesome!!!! If you went to a doctor and had some kind of health issues and knew something wasn't right but doctor said nope your okay would you believe him or get second opinion!! And yes vitamin a is bad if you give way to much but carrots don't give the toxic levels like supplements do!
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I 'saved' this info website a while back when we were discussing Vitamin A on a similar thread - the toxicity level in horses for Vit. A is 544IU per 1000 pound of bodyweight which amounts to 10 times the recommended dose given on supplements
When feeding any supplement you have to add in what the horses is already getting from other sources and whatever feeds you're using
This is the link as its quite interesting
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/horse/pdf/VitaminAandHorses4-23-03.pdf
 

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As horse owners we may be fairly well informed about what has had positive results with our own horses/situations. I just don't think we should be doling out medical advise to others ie practising veterinary medicine without a license. The OP should be researching, published medical material, not asking medical advise on a forum.
 

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As horse owners we may be fairly well informed about what has had positive results with our own horses/situations. I just don't think we should be doling out medical advise to others ie practising veterinary medicine without a license. The OP should be researching, published medical material, not asking medical advise on a forum.
As an example of alternative view - In the UK many vets have very limited knowledge on barefoot horses and often resort to shoeing advice as that is all they are taught. In recent years the advice from collective knowledge on the internet has revolutionised barefoot information and led to it becoming an increasingly popular option as a treatment for several hoof issues. Researching existing published medical information on this would have drawn a blank as rehabbing a horse (say for navicular) by going barefoot was almost unheard of here. Sadly vets do not know everything and not all good information has been published, but of course one should always check and research as much as possible any information your receive from all sources.
 

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the toxicity level in horses for Vit. A is 544IU per 1000 pound of bodyweight
This is the link as its quite interesting
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/horse/pdf/VitaminAandHorses4-23-03.pdf
Correction- 454 IU per pound of body weight, according to the source you linked.

For comparison, that would be 454,000 IU for my 1000 lb horse. His recommended daily intake (from FeedXL.com) is 30,000 IU per day. I'd say there's a little wiggle room there :)
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As horse owners we may be fairly well informed about what has had positive results with our own horses/situations. I just don't think we should be doling out medical advise to others ie practising veterinary medicine without a license. The OP should be researching, published medical material, not asking medical advise on a forum.
AGAIN, I am not asking what to do I am asking for suggestions to bring up to the vet. Also to see if my concerns are valid. I see the symptoms as being related where my barn owner seems to blow them off as nothing.
 

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Correction- 454 IU per pound of body weight, according to the source you linked.

For comparison, that would be 454,000 IU for my 1000 lb horse. His recommended daily intake (from FeedXL.com) is 30,000 IU per day. I'd say there's a little wiggle room there :)
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Thanks for correcting - if I'm too lazy to put my glasses on (actually go and search for them) I am really good at making mistakes like that!!!
 
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