The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there I'm doing a project for university on the amount of information available on the types of noseband available and what action they have on the horse.
What I'd like to know is
1) Do people think there is enough information on the types of nosebands
2) Is the information easily available
3) Where did you find out about the types of nosebands

Thanks Sara xxx
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,300 Posts
No and no. The only information that I think is readily available is the descriptions in the tack catalog.

As for number 3, I'd say common sense, experience and experimentation, and talking to other horseman.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
There is a huge amount of information on most nosebands -- all one has to do is go look for it.

The HorseForum has many threads which discuss nosebands and their uses + peoples opinions of them , and I know for a fact that there are lots of other forums that do the same.

All well as forums there is also GOOGLE search which brings up links to lots of websites which has information on just about everything - I also have several books which have nosebands and their uses outlined , and, in some cases detailed descriptions.

What I find in the world of today is people being either just lazy or have an inability to read.

I see nosebands fitted incorrectly, being used for the wrong purposes or as some sort of fashion trend. Some BO , trainers and even in some cases manufacturers have no clue about most tack - yet these are the very people that most rely on for their information.

so I would say Yes, Yes , and Yes to 1,2 and 3 - the problem is not the information or its availability but peoples inability to either look for it or use the information correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,455 Posts
I think that there are other areas you could spend your time on that would be of greater service to people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,220 Posts
I am with Maura - no and no and I had to learn on my own, through discussions with other horse folk and associations like Pony Club.

I wish I had my old Pony Club manual here with me - I'm going to have to get my Mom to send it to me. I remember it had a huge section on tack and the uses of each indavidual piece.

I do like Wikipedia's discussion on the topic though:

Noseband - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,300 Posts
Nutty,

I think the key word in the OP's post is "easily." Yes, the information is available, but is it "easily" availabe to the average amateur? In form they can understand? I think the answer is no, but Nutty, I understand your point of view on this. If you look through the posts on this forum, about half of the questions asked can be answered with a simple Google search, yet people post the question here, rather than Googling themselves.

The other key point is that I wouldn't put a piece of tack on a horse if I didn't have an good working knowledge of its mechanics and function, and hadn't done some additional research on it as well. However, the world, and this board, is full of people who put tack on a horse because 1.) they think it looks cool or "dresses the horse up" 2.) someone recommended it to them or 3.) they saw if on another horse 4.) it was hanging in their tack room oor 5.) It came with the horse when they bought it, with very little idea of how it functions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
Ok I am going to qualify my position a little bit

Question 1 Information
MIE mentions both Wikipedia and the Pony Club Manual . Both of these have descriptions of use and fitting of most nosebands . I also have a copy of Saddlery by Elwyn Hartly Edwards which also has uses and fitting.
A recent UK published magazine called Horse & Rider had an article on nosebands. I know that if you type in nosebands in wikipedia it will give you the most common nosebands and from that you can search Cavesson, Flash, Drop ,Grakle and Kineton ( the most common nosebands ) in this forum you will find hundreds of threads which discuss nosebands. So ALL of the information anybody could possibly want is avialiable.

Question 2 Availability and ease of access - Wikipedia , google , forums , books , trainers , other horse people are all available, easy to talk to and in most cases free advice is there for the asking

Question 3 Where to find out the information.

As previously stated if you type in Nosebands in Wikipedia it will list the most common nosebands, most saddlery , tack, training manuals will have a section on nosebands which is in the index of the book. You could walk upto most trainers and other horse people and talk about nosebands.


As I said before - the information is there, it is easy to get hold of and if you have an ounce of intelligence is easy to understand. Some people today just seem to be lazy and want to be baby-fed everything.

When I first started riding in 1984 things were different as I was limited to books, magazines and local people, but today I can ( this forum is a perfect example ) talk about almost anything with enlightened people from all over the planet - all I have to do is ask - and read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
yes a university project we all get to pic our own mini project and from talking to various people I don't think people know enough about the different types of nosebands and use them for the wrong reasons such as fashion one case study was a girl who put a grackle on her pony because 'it looks pretty' or just stick to a plain cavesson due to the lack of knowledge they have.

Thankyou for all your comments, if you have any more please feel free.
Sara xx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,220 Posts
Here is a great aritcle written by Jim Wofford:

~~~~

Is It Art? Or Violence?
Tips from the FEI rule book on why coercive training equipment doesn't work.


My therapist tells me that if I share my issues with you, I will feel better. So - here goes:

Can anybody around here ride in anything other than a flash noseband that has ben pulled so tight it leaves a depression in the horse's nose when the noseband is released?

Do you have ANY idea how much I hate tight nosebands? Doesn't that make you doubt yourself and your trsining methods just a little?

It should.

I learned a long time ago that art ends where violence begins. I do not see how we can be proud of our art as riders when the way our nosebands are adjusted amounts to daily mini-torture sessions for our horses who we purport to love and care for so much.

When your horse opens his mouth or croses his jaw, do you think, "Uh-oh, I'm going to lose dressage points this weekend, I'd better clamp his mouth shut"? OR do you recognize that your horse is exhibiting a sign of tension?

This means his training must continue to emphasize basic, calming work. If he is obviously nervous at the bottom levels of the training scale, you are not going to have much luck with his collected trot.

For those of you who have not been taking notes after your dressage clinics, the Training Scale goes - Rhythm, Looseness, Contact, Impulsion, Straightness, Collection.

Bcause I was born in a different century, I was raised on Gen. Decarpentry's advice - "Calm, Forward. Strait." I still prefer it because it emphasizes calmness before anything else. It is difficult to teach a horse anything when he is tense, and if you do teach him anything, chances are it will be the wrong thing.

Whichever way you think of it, you have to realize that your horse is not yet calm when he shows resistance in his mouth. If he is not yet calm, then any further demands on him will result in more tension and flawed results.

It is as simple as that. If you want flawed results, go ahead and ask for colection before your horse is relaxed. This is a pretty certain way to produce a horse who needs hismouth strapped shut.

A tight noseband is a vain attempt to disguise the fact that your horse is not ready for the things you are asking him to do.

Where was I berfore I started this rant? Oh yeah, classical equitation. I reread the "Object and General Princibles of Dressage" in the International Equestrain Federation dressage rule book the other day, and was pleased with how meaningful it is, and how clear.

For example, Article 401 of the rule book says, "By virtue of a lively impulsion and suplenes of the joints, free from the paralyzing effects of resistance, the horse obeys willingly and without hesitation and responds to the various aids calmly and with precision, displaying a natural and harmonious balance both physically and mentally."

Think about that for a second: When horses stiffen and resist, their musculature becomes paralyzed for the duration of that resistance. If your horse is tense in his topline while jumping, he wil be slow with his knees and hang his legs. If you are an eventer, or want to become one, then you have to realize that dressage permeates everything we do with horses.

Article 401 aditionally states, "The object of dressage is the development of the horse into a happy athlete through harmonious education. As a result, it makes the horse calm, suple, loose, and flexible, but also confident, attentive and keen, thus achieving perfect understanding with his rider."

I give the FEI a lot of unsolicited constructive criticism in this column, most of it well deserved and desperately neeed. However, I would be the first to admit that this is a lovely description of what we are supposed to be looking for in the training of our horses.

Finally, the rule book states that a horse should be allowed to "quietly chew the bit." You often find this expression in the source documents of dressage, and it is always spoken of approvingly as a trait to be developed and encouraged.

There is a very good reson for encouraging this trait in your horse: When he chews quietly on the bit, his mouth is soft and mobile. When his mouth is soft and mobile, it is a good bet that his jaw is relaxed. When his jaw is relaxed, his topline is through and his haunches are active. When your horse exhibits these traits, you are wel on your way to producing the "happy athlete" mentioned in the rule book.

If all this is true, then tel me how in the world your horse is going ot chew softly on anything when your flash is so tight that he can't move his jaw at all?

I laugh to myself when I walk past a competator getting ready to go into the dressage arena at an event and see her groom frantically stuffing sugar cubes into the side of the horse's mouth. At some tim einthe psat that rider has been told that a trained horse should show signs of foam on the sides of his mouth, so she is going to produce that foam by whatever means.

She doesn't even notice that her poor creature has his mouth so firmly clamped shut that he cannot chew anything. If US Dressage Team coach Bengt Ljungquist were alive, he would be spinning in his grave.

If that is your training practice, why not just go ahead and Super Glue your horses's teeth together.....that'll keep him from gaping his mouth, and it will fix that nasty teeth grinding at the same time. Just kidding.....really. Blame it on my therapist - she told me I need to rant more.

Anyway, the best way to get a good score in your dressage test is to give the judge what she wants. Judges are trained to judge according to the rule book, and the rule book says your horse should be free from the paralyzing effect of resistance.

Maybe if you concentrate more on correct training, your scores will go up. It will take a little while longer, but you will get a thrll out of your horse's improved performance. That thrill when you realize your horse is starting to understand is what is what sperarates competitors from horseman.

When we get the feeling that our horse is improving, the color of the ribbon pales in significance.

Competitions are atest of our progress as horsemen, they are not an end in themselves.

However, I don't want you to think that I live and train only in a world of theory. Riding and training horses in the real world is a complicated business, and things can get confusing sometimes. Was it Emerson who said that a sign of maturity is the ability to believe two mutually exclusive things at the same time?

If that is so, then we need to let our thinking about horses mature. What do I mean? Let me give you an example : I firmly believe that we must train our horses according to classical principles. This means long-term systematic, progressive training that never disturbs the tranquility of the horse. At the same time, I also believ that you can't have good hands if you don't have enough bit. See what I mean about opposed ideas? Yet both are true, and we need to apply both of them.

The process of training horses in the real world finds us suspended between these two oposed concepts, and we have to continually balance them. If I emphasize classical principles to th exclusion of all else, I may get into a situation wher I endanger my horse and my student, because if your horse is lacking in training, you will need some kind of gadget bit, which wil then be, short-term, enough bit.

At the same time, every time I use a gadget bit or overtighten a noseband, training comes to a stop. My horse will not truly improve until I do away with gadgets and domination and return to quiet, consistent, patient training.

It can be an enormous help to your training once you understand and accept that your horse is an incredibly sensitive creature.


I often wonder why people think they have to kick and pull a horse who can fel a fly land on his neck. Intsead of worrying about your dressage score, I want you to concentrate on teaching your horse to calmly respond to invisible aids.

Reiner Klimke, the legendary multiple gold medal winer said "My horses are not my slaves, they are my friends." Teach your horse to respond calmly and correctly, and he will be your friend forever.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top