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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
You need to be less defensive if you are asking for a general consensus of people who are not physically there.
Im going to be defensive over some things, and that's exactly why. They aren't here and can't see him act in person, so they have no room to say he's not happy. Thank you.
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:)
Im going to be defensive over some things, and that's exactly why. They aren't here and can't see him act in person, so they have no room to say he's not happy. Thank you.
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I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but all the people viewing this post have to go by is their personal interpretation of the words and pics that you have provided. Perhaps you could say "Yup, she's lost some weight. It took her a while to adjust to her new environment but things are improving"
 

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Discussion Starter #24
:)

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here, but all the people viewing this post have to go by is their personal interpretation of the words and pics that you have provided. Perhaps you could say "Yup, she's lost some weight. It took her a while to adjust to her new environment but things are improving"
I clearly say in the original post he has lost weight and I've switched his feed and separated him to help him gain weight haha. I know you're not trying to be a jerk, and like I said I'm open to critique but if someone is going to say my horse is unhappy, that's not critique.
Yes he has lost weight, he is thin but he is not SKINNY. His tail head and spine aren't protruding disgustingly, he has always, even from the day I got him had pokey hips.
That's why I questioned is Timwhit read my first post was because I state I know he's thin.
 

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Sorry Aesthetic, but I would consider him skinny in the second pictures you posted. He is scoring about a 3 on a body scale, and getting closer to a 2. I know you are doing what you can, and nobody should be judging your horses happiness. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here! So here are my suggestions:

1) FORAGE, FORAGE, FORAGE. Do whatever you can to get him on 24/7 hay...it will make the world of difference. There is absolutely no point in pumping him full of more grain, especially if he does have ulcers, which only increases stomach discomfort and contributes to weight loss. Keep his tummy happy with high fiber and high fat. Feed oils if you can but keep it to a minimum as it can give them diarrhea.

2) Keep riding/work to a minimum until he's back up to speed. Burning much needed calories won't be helpful and muscle is much harder to build without some fat on them first. Stretches and proper body carriage exercises will do wonders for you guys too. He is very "upside down" in the way he stands. Teaching him to reach down, stretch his topline, and use himself BACK to FRONT. All of this can be done on the ground before even stepping foot in the saddle.

3) Definitely test for ulcers, parasites, etc. I would pull blood and do fecals before you treat, that way your not wasting time/money on self-diagnostics. Pretty simple tests and you will feel a ton better knowing whats going on.

Again, these are just my personal suggestions, so take them with a grain of salt. EVERYONE cares for their horses differently. Below are a few pictures of a gelding I bought at the age of 4 who literally drove me crazy trying to keep weight on. I did everything I could think of for him and the thing that finally worked was giving him a good quality round bale of grass/alfalfa to go to town with...results were unbelievable. I had him on hay 3-4 times a day before that, but the 24/7 access really made a difference.

When he came...
mag20.jpg

After only a week of free-choice hay
hay.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Sorry Aesthetic, but I would consider him skinny in the second pictures you posted. He is scoring about a 3 on a body scale, and getting closer to a 2. I know you are doing what you can, and nobody should be judging your horses happiness. If you didn't care you wouldn't be here! So here are my suggestions:

1) FORAGE, FORAGE, FORAGE. Do whatever you can to get him on 24/7 hay...it will make the world of difference. There is absolutely no point in pumping him full of more grain, especially if he does have ulcers, which only increases stomach discomfort and contributes to weight loss. Keep his tummy happy with high fiber and high fat. Feed oils if you can but keep it to a minimum as it can give them diarrhea.

2) Keep riding/work to a minimum until he's back up to speed. Burning much needed calories won't be helpful and muscle is much harder to build without some fat on them first. Stretches and proper body carriage exercises will do wonders for you guys too. He is very "upside down" in the way he stands. Teaching him to reach down, stretch his topline, and use himself BACK to FRONT. All of this can be done on the ground before even stepping foot in the saddle.

3) Definitely test for ulcers, parasites, etc. I would pull blood and do fecals before you treat, that way your not wasting time/money on self-diagnostics. Pretty simple tests and you will feel a ton better knowing whats going on.

Again, these are just my personal suggestions, so take them with a grain of salt. EVERYONE cares for their horses differently. Below are a few pictures of a gelding I bought at the age of 4 who literally drove me crazy trying to keep weight on. I did everything I could think of for him and the thing that finally worked was giving him a good quality round bale of grass/alfalfa to go to town with...results were unbelievable. I had him on hay 3-4 times a day before that, but the 24/7 access really made a difference.

When he came...
View attachment 491666

After only a week of free-choice hay
View attachment 491674
He's going in HOPEFULLY next week for fecal, ulcers, and teeth. If I do 24/7 I'll be risking my mare quite a bit of tummy trouble, but we will see. We need a new hay ring first :/.
Well I see him as "thin" to me skinny are your emancipated babes out there.

I may be saying this because I'm taking care of another woman's horses and they're in far worse shape than Hagen...it's irrelevant but I think it just makes me feel Like Hagen is way better than what they are.

I'm going to get beet pellets today, I'm also going to slowly add Canola oil into his feed.

SPEAKING OF! Yesterday I actually lunged him for about 5-10 minutes to see if a homemade surscingle worked, and he have his nose right to it and gave zero fuss. Hopefully with a easy and collected trot for a few minutes a day his top line will come in. He doesn't look rounded at all, like he doesn't know how to carry himself.

I don't have a problem collecting him under saddle, I just never really worked with it. I more or less focused on side passing/ loping easy circles without going all over the place, just his simple stuff. Working from rear to front never crossed my mind!!

Any other suggestions on him? I'm going to look for a hay ring hopefully soon.
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Well I see him as "thin" to me skinny are your emancipated babes out there.

I may be saying this because I'm taking care of another woman's horses and they're in far worse shape than Hagen...it's irrelevant but I think it just makes me feel Like Hagen is way better than what they are.

There are many horses they are worse off, but being defensive about saying your horse is thin, skinny, whatever isn't solving his issues. The key is to remember than you aren't STARVING him, we all come across horses like this in our lifetime and nobody is blaming you for his appearance. My horse I posted is a similar score to you boy...he was skinny when I bought him and stayed that way for a very long time until I could figure out what worked for him. Admitting that he was underweight sucked, but its a true score on a professional body scale for horses. Just stay positive about your efforts!

SPEAKING OF! Yesterday I actually lunged him for about 5-10 minutes to see if a homemade surscingle worked, and he have his nose right to it and gave zero fuss. Hopefully with a easy and collected trot for a few minutes a day his top line will come in. He doesn't look rounded at all, like he doesn't know how to carry himself.

I don't have a problem collecting him under saddle, I just never really worked with it. I more or less focused on side passing/ loping easy circles without going all over the place, just his simple stuff. Working from rear to front never crossed my mind!!

Collection should be the last thing you worry about. When I talk about body carriage I simply mean that he has to learn to drive himself from behind...no fuss over his head or neck whatsoever. I would rather see him pushing off from behind with impulsion with his head up in the air than having his head tucked pretty with a hollow back and without tracking up. It is very hard to be able to feel and see the difference but with practice you'll get better at knowing when he is truly using himself correctly. Excellent video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cOq7YWXys
 

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What kind of hay are you feeding? Did the vet say why he got the runs on the alfalfa?
 

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Backing him up through obstacles and doing rollbacks on the fence will also help him build his top line and get him working on his back end.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Backing him up through obstacles and doing rollbacks on the fence will also help him build his top line and get him working on his back end.
He will learn roll backs eventually! Since he is long backed and in training to be a barrel horse I want him to use his rear properly so he doesn't hurt himself. As for the alfalfa thing, no idea but he isn't the first horse we've had the issue with. Alfalfa naturally makes horses have runs, just Hagen would constantly have them. He himself gets about 4-5 squares of hay Morning and night. Now that he is being separated he will be getting it all to himself

Now backing...I could back him to canada..
 

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The thing is we can only go off what you give us, and unfortunately that goes from a decent weight alert bright eyed boy to a thin, dull loss of muscle boy. He doesn't appear to have the alert bright eye as the first picture. Now sure it may be different in person however YOU are the one who posted and asked for a crit on him so you get what you give.

With the better feed and hopefully free choice hay I think he'll look much better but I also agree with keeping your work to an absolute minimum (walking maybe short trot) until he gets back to a better weight. I don't think he is terribly skinny but yes he needs a good amount of weight befor you start trying to up his muscle or youll continue to struggle to get him up.

good luck
 

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I know a lot of folks who feed alfalfa and their horses don't have the runs. I've also seen horse with sensitivity to alfalfa, but the symptoms were more like colic.
Diet change in general can cause diarrhea initially, but then so can stress. But he should be getting enough with what you are feeding, so maybe ulcers.
We feed rice bran and beet pulp for weight gain, but I would wait and see what the vet says. I would up his forage until then.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I know a lot of folks who feed alfalfa and their horses don't have the runs. I've also seen horse with sensitivity to alfalfa, but the symptoms were more like colic.
Diet change in general can cause diarrhea initially, but then so can stress. But he should be getting enough with what you are feeding, so maybe ulcers.
We feed rice bran and beet pulp for weight gain, but I would wait and see what the vet says. I would up his forage until then.
I had another horse who alfalfa have him the squirts, BAD. No idea. I just went and got a 40Lb bag of beet pulp and I'm going to use vegetable oil in his feed. A round bale is out of the question until September
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If you're adding vegetable oil to his feed for fat, you may consider trying Cool Calories 100.
I have always had a lot of luck with it when feeding to horses that need to gain weight. And in my opinion it works way better than plain vegetable oil. I have used both on my gelding and saw better results from Cool Calories. Tractor Supply sells it for around 20-30$ for an 8 pound bag...typically lasts a long time though.
Before my discovery of Cool Calories, I used soaked beet pulp, Purina Healthy Edge and free choice hay for my mare...she was emaciated when I got her. Now though she's a super fatty that stays fat on air, so I don't know how she got in that condition before I got her. I did have good results with her on that combination though.
I prefer cool calories now though because you can add the calories with out having to crank up their feed intake and over feed them. Like I always felt I would do with the beet pulp.

I do think your gelding looks like he could use some weight though. Just a bit. But some people prefer the slim look vs the chunky hay belly look. I know a polo guy who keeps all of his polo horses very lean with just a ton of muscle. He feeds them only oats and some days of the week free choice hay...always turned out on pasture. Sometimes molasses licks.

If you happen to want to use a muscle building supplement when you have got his weight up a little, I also use Su-Per Muscle Builder on my gelding...... He's a lanky, oddly built horse. Cool Calories and the Su-Per Muscle combined make him look great. He has really gained muscle since I have started feeding it to him. Just a thought, I don't know how muscular you're wanting him to get.
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If you're adding vegetable oil to his feed for fat, you may consider trying Cool Calories 100.
I have always had a lot of luck with it when feeding to horses that need to gain weight. And in my opinion it works way better than plain vegetable oil. I have used both on my gelding and saw better results from Cool Calories. Tractor Supply sells it for around 20-30$ for an 8 pound bag...typically lasts a long time though.
Before my discovery of Cool Calories, I used soaked beet pulp, Purina Healthy Edge and free choice hay for my mare...she was emaciated when I got her. Now though she's a super fatty that stays fat on air, so I don't know how she got in that condition before I got her. I did have good results with her on that combination though.
I prefer cool calories now though because you can add the calories with out having to crank up their feed intake and over feed them. Like I always felt I would do with the beet pulp.

I do think your gelding looks like he could use some weight though. Just a bit. But some people prefer the slim look vs the chunky hay belly look. I know a polo guy who keeps all of his polo horses very lean with just a ton of muscle. He feeds them only oats and some days of the week free choice hay...always turned out on pasture. Sometimes molasses licks.

If you happen to want to use a muscle building supplement when you have got his weight up a little, I also use Su-Per Muscle Builder on my gelding...... He's a lanky, oddly built horse. Cool Calories and the Su-Per Muscle combined make him look great. He has really gained muscle since I have started feeding it to him. Just a thought, I don't know how muscular you're wanting him to get.
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Thank you! I'm going to look around at everything.

To me...I like thick horses. Though not every horse can get thick and built the way I like! Hagen may just be a talk and lean horse when this is all over with, I have no idea.
To me, as long as they're healthy and at a healthy weight I don't care. I find thicker horses more attractive to me, but Hagen caught my eye and he wasn't a thick horse when I first got him.
They got their first little taste of beet pulp tonight. I gave them maybe a quarter if a scoop each.
Any advice on how much to add, when, and how much I should be feeding after they're introduced?
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Do you mean advice on adding beet pulp? When I got my mare and I was feeding it to her I treated her as a starvation case and just started off with 1/2 of a scoop of healthy edge, then worked in 1/2 a scoop of beet pulp later a couple days later....she was getting quite a bit of it in the end till she was a healthy weight again. I think she would get 1 and a 1/2 scoops of already soaked beet pulp in the morning with 1 scoop of healthy edge, and a ton of hay...usually 4-5 flakes...but she would usually eat it all so it really wasn't free choice till I moved her from her paddock to the pasture. My friend fed her in the evening for me, I think they mostly just have her healthy edge at night with hay.

With the cool calories and and Su-per muscle, I think it has instructions on it for how to introduce it to their feed. With cool calories I think they only get like an ounce or two a day, and it's the same with the Su-per muscle, I give my gelding 2 ounces a day. But I think both you give them 1/2 an ounce once a day for a couple days then maybe go to 1/2 twice a day. Then 3/4 twice a day...and 1 ounce twice a day if that's how much you're wanting to feed. A little bit of cool calories goes alonggg way. I never have had to give mine more than 1 ounce once a day if they're just needing help keeping their weight up, like in the winter.
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Do you mean advice on adding beet pulp? When I got my mare and I was feeding it to her I treated her as a starvation case and just started off with 1/2 of a scoop of healthy edge, then worked in 1/2 a scoop of beet pulp later a couple days later....she was getting quite a bit of it in the end till she was a healthy weight again. I think she would get 1 and a 1/2 scoops of already soaked beet pulp in the morning with 1 scoop of healthy edge, and a ton of hay...usually 4-5 flakes...but she would usually eat it all so it really wasn't free choice till I moved her from her paddock to the pasture. My friend fed her in the evening for me, I think they mostly just have her healthy edge at night with hay.

With the cool calories and and Su-per muscle, I think it has instructions on it for how to introduce it to their feed. With cool calories I think they only get like an ounce or two a day, and it's the same with the Su-per muscle, I give my gelding 2 ounces a day. But I think both you give them 1/2 an ounce once a day for a couple days then maybe go to 1/2 twice a day. Then 3/4 twice a day...and 1 ounce twice a day if that's how much you're wanting to feed. A little bit of cool calories goes alonggg way. I never have had to give mine more than 1 ounce once a day if they're just needing help keeping their weight up, like in the winter.
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This morning I introduced beet pulp to their feed. Right now I just took a half scoop and split it between the two to avoid a upset tummy.
In a day or two I'll do half a scoop to each and move up every few days until I'm at a scoop and a half!

There's no promises on the Su-per brand, my parents honestly don't believe in many supplements. Also, my feed store owner recommended me to...something Ultimate. I don't remember the bran but it's $40 a bag and lasts a long time, several months apparently. My parents probably wouldn't get it because I can build muscle through riding and gain weight through "home" additives like vegetable oil and a bag of beet pulp that's $16 for 40lbs
 

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I like the cool calories and Su-per muscle cause I haven't had any issues with my gelding getting hot off of it. I tried him on other fat supplements and he just goes crazy...super spooky, sets back, have to really work him down to do anything with him.
I don't think beet pulp had that effect on my mare, but she ended up only being pasture sound due to her having severe navicular I wasn't aware of when I got her. But I honestly haven't used it since... My gelding was prone to colic last summer, he colicked 3-4 times within 2 months. While I was feeding healthy edge as well...
So I have figured out his feeding and the cool calories worked in well since you have to feed so little and it makes such a big difference.

I'm sure the beet pulp will work for you though, I have heard good stuff about it still.


Start to Finish Cool Calories 100®, 8 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.

SU-PER Muscle Builder liquid
^ this one is harder to find I have only found it in one tack&feed store an hour away from me lol.
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I like the cool calories and Su-per muscle cause I haven't had any issues with my gelding getting hot off of it. I tried him on other fat supplements and he just goes crazy...super spooky, sets back, have to really work him down to do anything with him.
I don't think beet pulp had that effect on my mare, but she ended up only being pasture sound due to her having severe navicular I wasn't aware of when I got her. But I honestly haven't used it since... My gelding was prone to colic last summer, he colicked 3-4 times within 2 months. While I was feeding healthy edge as well...
So I have figured out his feeding and the cool calories worked in well since you have to feed so little and it makes such a big difference.

I'm sure the beet pulp will work for you though, I have heard good stuff about it still.


Start to Finish Cool Calories 100®, 8 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.

SU-PER Muscle Builder liquid
^ this one is harder to find I have only found it in one tack&feed store an hour away from me lol.
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I will talk to my parents about this, but there is no guarantee they'll do it and get it. They'll actually probably laugh in my face. They also so don't my horses as thin, but then again they aren't horse people.
 
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