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DONE WITH PAT & LINDA PARELLI

I started my Parelli journey in 1999. I was an avid student going to Pagosa all the time and having fun - then Parelli made instructor requirements that were obtainable for me, so I went for it 2009/2010. I sent in my 30 minute video showing them everything they wanted to see. I attended a two week course in 2005, a six-week course in 2007, and a four week course in 2008, which qualified me to apply for a $200 fee. I took the one star instructor course in Colorado in August of 2009, while there Parelli enticed me to take the two star course even before I had my year in as a one star instructor. I took the two star instructors course in Florida, February 2010. My expenses for both was approximately $20,000.00 plus weeks of training.

Parelli informed us in August of 2010 at the Instructors Conference they were changing the requirements and we needed to pass Level 4 On Line, Liberty, and Freestyle by September 1st, 2011. When the day came in September I remember the loss of dignity I felt when my star rating was removed from "Parelli Connect", my name removed from the Instructor list on the Parelli website, my Savvy Club membership cancelled, my Instructor discount for purchases revoked, and my license to teach suspended; all because I couldn't meet the new requirements of level 4 OL, Liberty, and F/S in one year. What happened to putting "the relationship first"

This not only happened to me - it happened to many many one and two star instructors.

Dignity: the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect.

If you had a dispute with Parelli and weren't compensated please file a complaint online with the Colorado District Attorney. It's simple to do...
 

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DONE WITH PAT & LINDA PARELLI
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get some kind of settlement. Sounds like breech of contract to me. You have what is called "none conforming existing rights" on all your certs. Any new changes can only apply to new certifications. Besides it's all contractual. You met your part of the contract. He must meet his. Any new changes to his curriculum is a new contract. He cannot arbitrarily and capriciously add new conditions to an existing contract.

I've had to help several folks that dropped big bucks at his clinics. I just saw on another thread that Pat was back in action up in Minnesota. He did some side kick to a horse to show that horses are rougher than people. I would like to see him charged with animal cruelty.
 

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My star rating was removed from "Parelli Connect", my name removed from the Instructor list on the Parelli website, my Savvy Club membership cancelled, my Instructor discount for purchases revoked, and my license to teach suspended; all because I couldn't meet the new requirements of level 4 OL, Liberty, and F/S in one year.
Can you tell us a little more about what it would have taken to qualify at Level 4 On Line, Liberty, and Freestyle? You say "many many one and two star instructors" suffered the same fate as you. Were there also one and two star instructors who retained their status? What did they do differently than you?

It is not unheard of for any type of professional organization to increase requirements for membership. Attorneys, physicians, public school teachers, pilots and many others are subject to loss of certification due to not meeting new requirements.

Knowing more about what you were expected to accomplish in that 13 months would help us understand whether what you suffered was fraudulent or unfair.
 

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I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get some kind of settlement. Sounds like breech of contract to me. You have what is called "none conforming existing rights" on all your certs. Any new changes can only apply to new certifications. Besides it's all contractual. You met your part of the contract. He must meet his. Any new changes to his curriculum is a new contract. He cannot arbitrarily and capriciously add new conditions to an existing contract.

I've had to help several folks that dropped big bucks at his clinics. I just saw on another thread that Pat was back in action up in Minnesota. He did some side kick to a horse to show that horses are rougher than people. I would like to see him charged with animal cruelty.
What thread is that?
 

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What thread is that?
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/help-please-things-have-gone-far-576802/page5/#post7429530
Joel Reiter;7429530 said:
The person who takes credit for the term Natural Horsemanship is Pat Parelli. ….I just watched him at the Minnesota Horse Expo...

A former black belt in Tae Kwon Do, one of the first things he did with one of the horses was give it a side kick to the chest to convince it to back out of his personal space. ….
This is not horsemanship. This is animal cruelty. Humans are not horses. I have my prejudices as my business is equine behavior. I always find contradictions in his methodology. If the above statement is true, it again shows the contradictions in his methodology.
 

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I'm sure savvystables (OP) meant, permission to use his name (Parelli) related to her business.

As a singular suit this is just a straight breech of contract case. The problem is finding a lawyer to take such a case. A lawyer would rather make this a class action case. Unless Pat is filthy rich, I can't see much of a singular case. It mite be possible to find an animal friendly attorney that would take the case for a low hourly cost. But that's about it.

This would be breech of contract under most State and probably Federal consumer affairs laws. If enough people complain to the Attorney General Office they might take the case if they feel enough of the general population is being hurt by such activity. Who knows what that criteria is?

If the trade tech. industry or Jr. College system sees an opportunity to make money they mite lobby a State Rep. to propose a new law making animal training a required certification. But not likely.
 

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Another tactic but risky is to ignore Pat. I would first pay a contract attorney to go over all the contracts or paper work you signed as well as any and all school/seminar curriculum and advertisements. See if Pat left himself a loophole in fine print to revoke the use of his name/certification for any reason. If the attorney doesn't see it. Continue to use his name until his attorney threatens to suit you. Then you pay your attorney to response to the "Cease and Desist letter" in Letter Head letting the Parelli corporation know that you plan to counter suit with punitive damages (if applicable to that State).

Generally it's the punitive damages as well as pain and suffering (not applicable in most States) where all the monies are made. Loosing a counter suit can cause a plaintiff major "pain and suffering".
 

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He did some side kick to a horse to show that horses are rougher than people. I would like to see him charged with animal cruelty.
I've seen Parelli do that twice, so I assume it's part of his routine. In both cases I witnessed the horses were a little surprised but didn't act like they'd been hurt.

I think it's a pretty slippery slope if trainers start pointing fingers at each other and yelling cruelty.
 

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Could the OP say something like "former Parelli……."? OP-that might give you more credibility with folks. I have a friend (former BO) who is also a Parelli instructor…..I was really leary of having anything to do with him when I met him because of that. But, then I found that even though ho drinks the koolaid, he is also a good horseman. Thankfully, he still is.
 

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...I think it's a pretty slippery slope if trainers start pointing fingers at each other and yelling cruelty.
Agreed. If Parelli IS a black belt, he's sparred with enough humans to be able to give a sidekick to a HUMAN without hurting him. If he isn't trained, then he won't be ABLE to sidekick a horse enough to hurt the horse...even trained, that would be tough.

My horses kick each other often enough, and I never want to be on the receiving end of what they give each other.

I've been known to kick mine. My take-away was that if I kicked my horse while wearing sneakers, my foot will hurt a lot more than my horse will.

As for the contract, it all depends ON the contract. If the contract requires continuing education or gives Parelli the right to remove certifications for XYZ, then the contract will support Parelli. And since I'm sure he has lawyers write his contracts, the contract had better protect Parelli's butt. If it doesn't, then his lawyers should be fired.

BTW - getting legal advice on the Internet is unwise. In the county where I live, the county Bar Association has a referral service. $35 paid in advance will get you 30 minutes with a lawyer who specializes in your problem area and who is licensed to practice law in your state. The details of the law and how it is applied vary from state to state and often work contrary to popular opinion.
 

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Just for clarification: Contracts are for two things; clarification and redress. No attorney will write a bullet proof contract. All law and contracts must have language that is arguable. So if for reasons X, Y and Z, Pat can take someones certifications and prevent them form using his name. He can't use that language or contractual agreement punitively. Meaning, the contract is to protect Pat. Pat must be wronged by the other party. He can't use a contract to proactively to hurt others. It must be him that is hurt. No contract can take a persons civil right away. His lawyers know this. They would not write or intend the contract to used in such a manner. So, if he has done this to enough people. No matter how good his Law firm is, he will loose in court hands down.

Contractual law, like all civil law is about money not justice. If Pat is using his contract to make money or take money from a person in perpetuity. He is being punitive. So the $64,000 question is... Does Pat have deep enough pockets or a high enough public persona to make it worth while for an attorney to represent a plaintiff?

Just to make it clear. Money to the court is not the same as money to you and me. From the courts point of view, money is inextricable connect to people as a representation of their personal self worth. Money to the court is a civil right and part of a person. Money can speak for a person and is a 1st Amendment Right. The newest case in the long history money and civil rights within the The United States of America is CITIZENS UNITED v. FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION.

It is clear to me that OP is being hurt not Pat.
 

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A few years back a gal took one of my horses to a 3 star clinic. Fees of course are high which included additional liability ins where the venue was held. But at the end of the second day it was announced that one could not longer attend a clinic without first joining the Parelli organization which would add on a few hundred dollars and this was the annual fee. Most of those enthusiastic about taking a future clinic withdrew their application feeling it wasn't worth the additional expense. As Buck Brannaman says "these clinics are pocket change for some people while others save for a year to attend one".
 

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Just for clarification: Contracts are for two things; clarification and redress. No attorney will write a bullet proof contract. All law and contracts must have language that is arguable. So if for reasons X, Y and Z, Pat can take someones certifications and prevent them form using his name. He can't use that language or contractual agreement punitively. Meaning, the contract is to protect Pat. Pat must be wronged by the other party. He can't use a contract to proactively to hurt others. It must be him that is hurt. No contract can take a persons civil right away. His lawyers know this. They would not write or intend the contract to used in such a manner. So, if he has done this to enough people. No matter how good his Law firm is, he will loose in court hands down....
I strongly suspect you are not a lawyer. While it is probably impossible to write a bullet proof contract, it is certainly possible to write one with strong protection for one party and minimal protection for the other. It is up to both signing parties to determine if the contract is acceptable to them.

Parelli has a right to license others as a Parelli-trained instructor. I do not know how the contract was written, but it would be entirely possible for a contract to specify that Parelli has the right to increase standards at a later date, or to decertify the use of his name by someone who doesn't meet his standards.

If the OP wants to know her legal rights, I would strongly suggest talking to an attorney in the state where she lives. The attorney will probably want to see the contract. Following legal advice given by strangers on the Internet is a good way to get into trouble. I'm not a lawyer. I also do not give legal advice over the Internet...other than to consult a lawyer if you have a serious legal question. If it isn't worth $35 for you to learn the correct answer, then it isn't a very important question to begin with.
 

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I do understand the frustration. I also think it is a good idea to follow bsms' advice and get a lawyer's opinion. However, I would NOT get myself into an expensive legal battle.
What I would ask myself is, regardless of whether you still call yourself a Parelli-certified instructor or not, do you have the feeling those courses were worth what you paid for them? Do you feel like you have learnt enough about horse training for your time and money to be worthwile? Or do you NEED to be a Parelli-certified instructor for business purposes?

In the end - at least to me - what it comes down to when I take a clinic or course is "have I improved the relatioship with my horse / my riding / my skills as a horse trainer / my knowledge about the specific topic?". I don't mind paying for a big name, as long as it reflects the quality of training. I do mind paying for a big name for the sake of the name though.

Of course, that's a little bit different for professional training, but you don't need a license for being a horse trainer. So really, the only thing at stake is whether you can use his name for advertising your own services.
I agree that what you describe sounds like a scheme to make more money for Mr. Parelli. But obviously you were quite happy with what you learned in those courses, so even if you can't call yourself a Parelli horse trainer anymore, move on and use the knowledge that you have gained to train horses. That's what it's all about, no?
 

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A local gal spent $5K at a session in Pagosa Springs. Hauled her horse thousands of miles. When she returned very little to no interested customers. I had her come out to see what she could do with my walker. I was not pleased. She's been riding and handling horses since 10 so no excuse. My walker had no respect for her whatsoever and he's a pretty respectful horse with everyone else. She allowed him to nibble on her shirt. Her ground work was pathetic. Had him back up and move forward and circle her, but spent most of her time looking at him looking at her. I cut it short. Never had her back. I didn't need her but felt if she'd done a good job I'd have had her back a few times so she could have a reference.
 
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