I know someone that has devoted her life to there program and is in hock up to her eyeballs. I can't imagine her making enough money to make the investment pay off. I heard you have to pay them 10k to go shovel manure for a summer.

 

DONE WITH PAT & LINDA PARELLI

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get some kind of settlement. Sounds like breech of contract to me. You have what is called "none conforming existing rights" on all your certs. Any new changes can only apply to new certifications. Besides it's all contractual. You met your part of the contract. He must meet his. Any new changes to his curriculum is a new contract. He cannot arbitrarily and capriciously add new conditions to an existing contract.

I've had to help several folks that dropped big bucks at his clinics. I just saw on another thread that Pat was back in action up in Minnesota. He did some side kick to a horse to show that horses are rougher than people. I would like to see him charged with animal cruelty.

 

What thread is that?

 

It seems other trainers are deeming students as no longer qualified. It's a hook to get people to keep paying the exorbitant fees.

 

My star rating was removed from "Parelli Connect", my name removed from the Instructor list on the Parelli website, my Savvy Club membership cancelled, my Instructor discount for purchases revoked, and my license to teach suspended; all because I couldn't meet the new requirements of level 4 OL, Liberty, and F/S in one year.

Can you tell us a little more about what it would have taken to qualify at Level 4 On Line, Liberty, and Freestyle? You say "many many one and two star instructors" suffered the same fate as you. Were there also one and two star instructors who retained their status? What did they do differently than you?

It is not unheard of for any type of professional organization to increase requirements for membership. Attorneys, physicians, public school teachers, pilots and many others are subject to loss of certification due to not meeting new requirements.

Knowing more about what you were expected to accomplish in that 13 months would help us understand whether what you suffered was fraudulent or unfair.

 

Done with Parelli



Level 4 is Performance level... Riding bridle less and doing transitions, Flying lead changes, jumping, circles, then in bridle dressage moves, Online playing with you horse out on the end of 45' rope having him circle at walk trot canter - trailer load -jump obstacles - flying lead changes. your horse at Liberty in an open space doing the above maneuvers...too name a few. Very high level of horsemanship.

 

What license to teach was suspended? You don't need a license to teach. Maybe you mean permission to use his name related to your business? You may get more business without the Parelli name.

 

$20,000 ! :shock::shock::shock:

 

Imagine what you could do with that.... $384 a week for a whole year... you could almost have daily lessons for that!

 

I'm sure savvystables (OP) meant, permission to use his name (Parelli) related to her business.

As a singular suit this is just a straight breech of contract case. The problem is finding a lawyer to take such a case. A lawyer would rather make this a class action case. Unless Pat is filthy rich, I can't see much of a singular case. It mite be possible to find an animal friendly attorney that would take the case for a low hourly cost. But that's about it.

This would be breech of contract under most State and probably Federal consumer affairs laws. If enough people complain to the Attorney General Office they might take the case if they feel enough of the general population is being hurt by such activity. Who knows what that criteria is?

If the trade tech. industry or Jr. College system sees an opportunity to make money they mite lobby a State Rep. to propose a new law making animal training a required certification. But not likely.

 

Done with Parelli

I'm sure savvystables (OP) meant, permission to use his name (Parelli) related to her business.

As a singular suit this is just a straight breech of contract case. The problem is finding a lawyer to take such a case. A lawyer would rather make this a class action case. Unless Pat is filthy rich, I can't see much of a singular case. It mite be possible to find an animal friendly attorney that would take the case for a low hourly cost. But that's about it.

This would be breech of contract under most State and probably Federal consumer affairs laws. If enough people complain to the Attorney General Office they might take the case if they feel enough of the general population is being hurt by such activity. Who knows what that criteria is?

If the trade tech. industry or Jr. College system sees an opportunity to make money they mite lobby a State Rep. to propose a new law making animal training a required certification. But not likely.

Hi, I sure hope students or instructors do file a complaint with Colorados attorney generals office...they told me if they get enough complaints - they will open an investigation

 

Another tactic but risky is to ignore Pat. I would first pay a contract attorney to go over all the contracts or paper work you signed as well as any and all school/seminar curriculum and advertisements. See if Pat left himself a loophole in fine print to revoke the use of his name/certification for any reason. If the attorney doesn't see it. Continue to use his name until his attorney threatens to suit you. Then you pay your attorney to response to the "Cease and Desist letter" in Letter Head letting the Parelli corporation know that you plan to counter suit with punitive damages (if applicable to that State).

Generally it's the punitive damages as well as pain and suffering (not applicable in most States) where all the monies are made. Loosing a counter suit can cause a plaintiff major "pain and suffering".

 

Could the OP say something like "former Parelli……."? OP-that might give you more credibility with folks. I have a friend (former BO) who is also a Parelli instructor…..I was really leary of having anything to do with him when I met him because of that. But, then I found that even though ho drinks the koolaid, he is also a good horseman. Thankfully, he still is.

 

Just for clarification: Contracts are for two things; clarification and redress. No attorney will write a bullet proof contract. All law and contracts must have language that is arguable. So if for reasons X, Y and Z, Pat can take someones certifications and prevent them form using his name. He can't use that language or contractual agreement punitively. Meaning, the contract is to protect Pat. Pat must be wronged by the other party. He can't use a contract to proactively to hurt others. It must be him that is hurt. No contract can take a persons civil right away. His lawyers know this. They would not write or intend the contract to used in such a manner. So, if he has done this to enough people. No matter how good his Law firm is, he will loose in court hands down.

Contractual law, like all civil law is about money not justice. If Pat is using his contract to make money or take money from a person in perpetuity. He is being punitive. So the $64,000 question is... Does Pat have deep enough pockets or a high enough public persona to make it worth while for an attorney to represent a plaintiff?

Just to make it clear. Money to the court is not the same as money to you and me. From the courts point of view, money is inextricable connect to people as a representation of their personal self worth. Money to the court is a civil right and part of a person. Money can speak for a person and is a 1st Amendment Right. The newest case in the long history money and civil rights within the The United States of America is CITIZENS UNITED v. FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION.

It is clear to me that OP is being hurt not Pat.

 

Just for clarification: Contracts are for two things; clarification and redress. No attorney will write a bullet proof contract. All law and contracts must have language that is arguable. So if for reasons X, Y and Z, Pat can take someones certifications and prevent them form using his name. He can't use that language or contractual agreement punitively. Meaning, the contract is to protect Pat. Pat must be wronged by the other party. He can't use a contract to proactively to hurt others. It must be him that is hurt. No contract can take a persons civil right away. His lawyers know this. They would not write or intend the contract to used in such a manner. So, if he has done this to enough people. No matter how good his Law firm is, he will loose in court hands down....

I strongly suspect you are not a lawyer. While it is probably impossible to write a bullet proof contract, it is certainly possible to write one with strong protection for one party and minimal protection for the other. It is up to both signing parties to determine if the contract is acceptable to them.

Parelli has a right to license others as a Parelli-trained instructor. I do not know how the contract was written, but it would be entirely possible for a contract to specify that Parelli has the right to increase standards at a later date, or to decertify the use of his name by someone who doesn't meet his standards.

If the OP wants to know her legal rights, I would strongly suggest talking to an attorney in the state where she lives. The attorney will probably want to see the contract. Following legal advice given by strangers on the Internet is a good way to get into trouble. I'm not a lawyer. I also do not give legal advice over the Internet...other than to consult a lawyer if you have a serious legal question. If it isn't worth $35 for you to learn the correct answer, then it isn't a very important question to begin with.

 

A few years back a gal took one of my horses to a 3 star clinic. Fees of course are high which included additional liability ins where the venue was held. But at the end of the second day it was announced that one could not longer attend a clinic without first joining the Parelli organization which would add on a few hundred dollars and this was the annual fee. Most of those enthusiastic about taking a future clinic withdrew their application feeling it wasn't worth the additional expense. As Buck Brannaman says "these clinics are pocket change for some people while others save for a year to attend one".

 

This is unfortunate, and I can see how you would be very frustrated, but maybe a blessing in disguise?

Perhaps considering interning under a BNA so as to get your own name out into the community~

 

I do understand the frustration. I also think it is a good idea to follow bsms' advice and get a lawyer's opinion. However, I would NOT get myself into an expensive legal battle.
What I would ask myself is, regardless of whether you still call yourself a Parelli-certified instructor or not, do you have the feeling those courses were worth what you paid for them? Do you feel like you have learnt enough about horse training for your time and money to be worthwile? Or do you NEED to be a Parelli-certified instructor for business purposes?

In the end - at least to me - what it comes down to when I take a clinic or course is "have I improved the relatioship with my horse / my riding / my skills as a horse trainer / my knowledge about the specific topic?". I don't mind paying for a big name, as long as it reflects the quality of training. I do mind paying for a big name for the sake of the name though.

Of course, that's a little bit different for professional training, but you don't need a license for being a horse trainer. So really, the only thing at stake is whether you can use his name for advertising your own services.
I agree that what you describe sounds like a scheme to make more money for Mr. Parelli. But obviously you were quite happy with what you learned in those courses, so even if you can't call yourself a Parelli horse trainer anymore, move on and use the knowledge that you have gained to train horses. That's what it's all about, no?

 

Regula has a good point here. There are people other than myself that would cringe if the trainer I was considering told me that they were a strict follower of Parelli (or C.A. or anyone else) If you can train and get good results you can build your reputation on that. For those who like Parelli, you can say that you have studied under him. That would not be a breach of contract.

 

A local gal spent $5K at a session in Pagosa Springs. Hauled her horse thousands of miles. When she returned very little to no interested customers. I had her come out to see what she could do with my walker. I was not pleased. She's been riding and handling horses since 10 so no excuse. My walker had no respect for her whatsoever and he's a pretty respectful horse with everyone else. She allowed him to nibble on her shirt. Her ground work was pathetic. Had him back up and move forward and circle her, but spent most of her time looking at him looking at her. I cut it short. Never had her back. I didn't need her but felt if she'd done a good job I'd have had her back a few times so she could have a reference.

 

Well, no professional development course (equine or otherwise) will ever guarantee you that you will actually be good at what you do afterwards. There are too many other factors that play into it - practice, character, talent, discipline, the ability to apply what you learned for example. So I don't think Pat Parelli is to blame entirely for people who take his courses and still don't know how to train a horse afterwards.

Who knows why he increased the requirements for being a Parelli certified trainer. It might be that he is just trying to make more money. It might be that he is seeing a problem with too many trainers that advertise with his name and aren't actually all that good.
I personally think it would be a lot fairer if he made the admission requirements more stringent rather than making people take his expensive courses and then telling them afterwards "sorry, changed my mind, you're not good enough after all".
What's important though is that he fulfills his end of the contract and that he delivers what he promises. If he promises that after x number of courses you'll be able to advertise yourself using his name, then that is what you should be able to do.

 

Back in the day guys like Parelli were called "Snake-Oil Salesmen." Self-proclaimed horse-training gurus make a fortune from gullible horse owners. Most of the programs are gimmicks or just variations of centuries-old horse conditioning techniques wrapped up in new paper and given a jazzy name.

They want you to think they've invented something new...and trust me, we humans have been training horses to ride for going on six-thousand years and there ain't nothing new. They'd like you to think that everybody before them--the Parthians, the Greeks, the Arabs, the Mongols, the great European national studs didn't know a **** thing about conditioning horses until they--Mr Parelli, Monty the "Horse Whisperer" et al--came along to show everybody how it's supposed to be done.

I drove by a neighbor's pasture some years ago and saw him walking along in front of his horse, flapping his arms like a duck and bobbing his head up and down. I pulled over and said, "Jim, what the h*ll are you doing?" He said, "It's Parelli. I'm training the horse."

 

Once upon a time, many years ago, PP was a decent horse hand. Had a nice little wife and a nice little life. Never went without work with horses of some kind.

Not sure how someone gets to thinking all their ideas are good ones, but that seems to have happened to him.

Bottom line, I'm glad he gets people off the sofa and out with the horses they are scared of. But I won't let a Parelli-ite on my place. Takes the rider, for those that actually ride, too long to get on. My horse and I have got a 1/4 of our day done and they are still getting themselves psyched up with some voodoo/superstitious routine the "snake oil salesman" sold them.

 

I usually worry about anyone who trains with a "program". Every horse is different. If trainers listen to the horse, instead of consulting some card, or book in their pocket, or video, that is how a horse gets trained.

I admit, I lost about $400 to PP the first time I saw him.....I felt like I had been hypnotized, and walked into the arena and handed over my cc! I did get a good halter and lead rope out of the deal. I read the book, but got annoyed with the alliteration.

I am sorry you could not get out before they got so much of your money and time.

 

A thing to consider too is that Parelli is a bit of a trigger word in the horse community... very polarizing. Perhaps, without that name attached to yours, you may get even more business! Let us know how it's going.

 

The lady who trained our horses originally started out as an XXX trainer. I think it was John Lyons, but I'm not sure. I don't even know if John Lyons did that stuff. In any case, as she trained more horses and built up a reputation, she stopped calling herself an XXX certified trainer. She has continued to take lessons in training from other people, has now trained a lot more horses and seen a lot of problems and had to experiment with different approaches to find the one that worked on the individual horse. I think she now runs about a 3-4 month waiting period for accepting a horse - simply has more business coming her way than time and facilities to handle the demand.

If someone told me they started using Parelli's system and then branched out as they worked with more horses, to the point they no longer considered themselves a "Parelli Trainer" and were no longer licensed to claim it, that would increase my chance of hiring them. Around here, being an "ex-Parelli trainer" might bring in more customers. OTOH, if someone advertised themselves as a "Parelli 4 Level" (or whatever it is called), I'd avoid them like the plague.

 

Maybe the OP's business will improve without the Parelli name, maybe it won't. Time will tell about that, but, in a way, that's not the point. True, the OP has whatever knowledge and experience s/he may have gained, and that can not be taken away, but s/he paid a pile of money for the certification, and I am astonished that it can be taken away.

I have an high school degree, a college degree, some post-graduate degrees and certifications, and put a lot of time, money and work into them. I would be outraged if my High School voided my diploma if I didn't go on to college, or if my old Alma Mater revoked my diploma because I failed to continue to take courses with them, or my art school canceled my certificate because I haven't produced any great art. I earned it, it's mine!

I can see them adding stuff on for additional courses, like First Level Parelli Instructor, BB (Black Belt) or LSX (Lead Snapper Excellent), but to yank it? No way.

This sounds like some kind of extortion to me.

 

There are a number of areas where continuing education is required: nursing, preparing taxes, legal fields, etc. In a case like this, it would all depend on the contract - which none of us but the OP has seen. There is this statement on his website:

"Staying updated is an important part of being a Licensed Parelli Professional."

What is a Parelli Professional? | Parelli Professionals

 

The occupations mentioned have continuing education not only because the States require it but because things change, new things are added & the things you seldom use get forgotten. I'm not sure any of that applies to horse training. I mean if you're training a horse you're training a horse & any changes will be dictated by the horse, not a program.

 

These type of trainers are in doing what they do for two things.. money and fame.

That is their priority.

 

I agree. They *may* actually be good horsemen, but they are certainly even better businessmen.
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Honey, it's always about the money no matter how big the name. And, for all those fancy credentials where does it get you?
Dear old Pat & Linda are among the worst but take a look around-all the biggies have their own gimmicks to sell and people latch onto them as if it was a religious experience.

 

I look at this way, Parrelli and the rest of them, made a name using concepts that have been used for years. Some business man decided, hey I can make some $$$ putting it on video and getting followeres etc etc, Name brand.. blah blah
If I went to a trainer and all they could say was they trained parelli et al.. and could not say I trained and competed and won this or that.. I would walk away with my money and find a
trainer that could stand on their own rep.