[clumsychelsea]

I rode Angel for the first time today!

My BO was doing a trail ride with 9 horses and suggested that I walk Angel along so she can get used to being in groups and on trails again. Things started off badly because she was uncomfortable at the back of the group. I wanted to move ahead with her but the trail wasn't all that wide and the other riders were inexperienced. (Keep in mind this is the first time in many years that she's been in a group of horses and neither me nor my BO knew what to expect from her.) Only a couple of minutes in, she bolted and managed to weave her way up to the front of the line. (You wouldn't believe my rope burns.)

Once she was up front, she was 100% more relaxed. She's fairly dominant in the herd as it is, so she should have been up front to begin with. She settled behind the two big lead geldings and we set off again, me leading her with much better results, though she was still very go-go-go. (First time out of the pasture for an adventure in 3 years! I can't blame her.)

My BO stopped us after we confirmed that she was settled and not nervous about her surrounding, stuck his knee out and asked if I wanted to ride. We attached a lead rope to either side of her halter and I hopped on bareback!

I cannot BEGIN to explain how good she was! There was not even a twitch of her ears when I got on, and she was fantastic for the period that I rode her. (Only 10 minutes or so.) She was still excited, but she responded to all my cues very well, just very enthusiastically. She didn't react when I got off either, and she was content to be led the rest of the way. She started off a bit pushy when being led but after a few good smacks with the rope to teach her to respect my space, she steered clear of me. I did get stepped on once though. :lol:

Anyway, I'm excited, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. Any recommendations on how to proceed? We're going to start bringing her to be round penned daily starting tomorrow and get her used to a saddle on her back again. My main question is if you think it would be a bad idea to try five-ten minute bareback walks in quiet, calm areas daily? My BO/trainer was really impressed with her behaviour and thinks it should be alright in small doses to reintroduce her to it, but I'd like some second opinions.

Sorry for long post (mine always are) and thanks!

 

[BreakableRider]

Wait.... Let me get this straight?

Your barn owner had you put the first ever ride on a horse out on the trail with inexperienced riders around, bareback, when she was already excited, and hadn't been behaving well on the ground previously?

I'm very happy that you or any of the other riders were not seriously injured because of this.

I would proceed by finding a new trainer who takes staying safe seriously.

 

[clumsychelsea]

Wait.... Let me get this straight?

Your barn owner had you put the first ever ride on a horse out on the trail with inexperienced riders around, bareback, when she was already excited, and hadn't been behaving well on the ground previously?

I'm very happy that you or any of the other riders were not seriously injured because of this.

I would proceed by finding a new trainer who takes staying safe seriously.

We were way out front with the advanced riders, the beginners were in the back. (Hence my hesitation to move my horse forwards in the group at first.) She was fine when we got her to her comfort zone and I wouldn't have got on her back if I felt my or anybody elses safety was at risk. My trainer was by my side the entire time with his hand on the side of her halter. Her misbehaviour was due to not being where she was meant to be in the line-up, and she was fine when we got her there. What I mean by "excited" is that she was not lazy or lagging behind, she was keeping up with the other lead horses despite being a lot smaller than them. I got on towards the end of the ride and she had been walked for at least half an hour without any problems whatsoever before I got on. She was respecting my space at this point; it was at the beginning when she was at the back that she was being disrespectful. Nothing to say about the bareback comment except that I've been told she's always been more comfortable bareback than with a saddle on. (I have a feeling her old saddle didn't fit. She's got some white hair growth where it would have been pinching her.)

Anyway, sorry to scare you but I felt comfortable enough with the situation and the people I was around to get on her back.

 

[DraftyAiresMum]

Don't feel too bad about it. My gelding's first "unofficial" ride was out on the trail. I was out on a trail walk with two of my friends, one of whom is the trainer who put Aires' first four real rides on him. I had Aires all tacked up, getting him used to the tack, and my friends were on their horses (well, one of my friends was on her mare, the trainer was on a boarder's gelding that she was exercising). Anyway, we were talking about when the BO, who was breaking in Aires for me, was going to put the trainer up on him and if he was ready and she started saying that she thought he was ready and bet us both that she could get on him right then and there with no incident. So, we took her up on it.

She mounted him with no incident, walked him up and down the road for about ten minutes, then came back and dismounted. He was amazing the entire time. We were sworn to secrecy from the BO, though. :lol:


(That's the latigo hanging down for whatever reason)


Are you breaking her with a bit or just the halter?

 

[clumsychelsea]

Don't feel too bad about it. My gelding's first "unofficial" ride was out on the trail. I was out on a trail walk with two of my friends, one of whom is the trainer who put Aires' first four real rides on him. I had Aires all tacked up, getting him used to the tack, and my friends were on their horses (well, one of my friends was on her mare, the trainer was on a boarder's gelding that she was exercising). Anyway, we were talking about when the BO, who was breaking in Aires for me, was going to put the trainer up on him and if he was ready and she started saying that she thought he was ready and bet us both that she could get on him right then and there with no incident. So, we took her up on it.

She mounted him with no incident, walked him up and down the road for about ten minutes, then came back and dismounted. He was amazing the entire time. We were sworn to secrecy from the BO, though. :lol:


(That's the latigo hanging down for whatever reason)


Are you breaking her with a bit or just the halter?

Aires is so beautiful it breaks my heart every time I see him!!

I genuinely wouldn't have gotten on if I was nervous about her reactions! She's not new to being ridden, just rusty. She did great so I'm positive about her future.

I'd prefer halter... She responds very well to it. Very light pressure will get her to stop, back up or turn. She hasn't been ridden in one before (that I know of, BO wasn't positive) but if I have enough control with a halter I'd rather avoid the bit for now. I'm not sure what bit they rode her in before either, but ideally I'd like to have her in a snaffle. We'll likely start with a bridle when we start riding her again, just to see how things go at first.

 

[DraftyAiresMum]

So she's been broke before? I'm kinda confused.

Breaking in a bit isn't a bad thing, it just needs to be the right bit. My BO tried to start Aires in a Tom Thumb. Aires hated it. He'd throw his head up when the BO would cue him (worked on rein cues and yielding from the ground first...didn't help that the BO has hands of iron). Then my friend loaned us her copper mouth loose ring singe-joint snaffle (what's on him in the pics). He was SOOOOOO much better in it, it was ridiculous. He has been ridden in just a halter and he was so confused, poor guy. Luckily he moves better off seat and leg than he does reins. :lol: I've also ridden him in a little S hackamore. He was very good in that.

It's more about the hands holding the reins than it is about what is in their mouth or on their face.

And believe you me...every time I see the big galoot, I can't believe he's mine and how absolutely blessed I am.

 

[clumsychelsea]

She's 9 years old and used to be ridden frequently. She was used mostly as a trail horse from what I gathered. Basically the story is that her owners got bored of horseback riding and left her to sit in the pasture for three years until I came along. I'm getting her back into work.

Tom thumb bits scare me! I used to ride a little fjord in a leverage bit but I really don't like them at all. I'd much rather stick with a snaffle. I like french link snaffles though! I'll probably wind up trying a few different kinds on Angel before we settle down with anything. She seems to be pretty sensitive to leg cues as well, so that's definitely a bonus!

Never tried riding in a hackamore before. Is there a huge difference from riding in other bitless ways, like in a halter?

His colour is stunning... Must have all the mares after him. :lol:

 

[DraftyAiresMum]

If she's already been broke, has just had a few years off, I'd honestly just start riding her. She'll remember all the cues and such as you put more rides on her. Heck, my gelding had a year and a half off (was broke as a 2yo, did light riding for a year and a half, then just sat for a year and a half because life happened) and he remembered everything like it'd only been a couple of days.

I have ridden Aires in an eggbutt french link snaffle, a D-ring oval (three-piece still) snaffle, a little S hackamore, and most recently in a Circle R Ride-Lite 3-piece with lifesaver (very much like the Sharon Camarillo TenderTouch with lifesaver, just with a smooth sweet iron mouthpiece http://cdn.circlertack.com/work/imgcache/2736607329.png ). The little S and the Circle R have been his favorites, by far. Since he's (sadly) outgrowing the Circle R and the little S is a touch small for his big ol' noggin, I'm gonna drop him back to a three piece loose ring snaffle and see how he does. He was better in that than in anything else but the Circle R.

Oh, he thinks that all the ladies should be swooning at his hooves...which, of course, never happens.

 

[Yogiwick]

" Her misbehaviour was due to not being where she was meant to be in the line-up"

This is one huge excuse. YOU are in charge. She stays where you tell her to stay. Don't make excuses for her misbehavior.

 

[skiafoxmorgan]

I gotta agree with Yogiwick, here. If a horse I am riding charges to the fore, she better keep going, cause she isn't stopping until she thinks she's going to die. Never let a horse decide where it wants to be. YOU decide. It is a matter of paramount safety for you, the horse, and others around you. Wrap a chain over the brat's nose and start practicing leading properly. Turn left and expect her to keep up. Turn right, and EXPECT her to get out of YOUR way. Stop and back, and expect her to back with you or wait quietly.

Woman, that is a 1000 lb animal. Do you really wanna play with that?

 

[clumsychelsea]

" Her misbehaviour was due to not being where she was meant to be in the line-up"

This is one huge excuse. YOU are in charge. She stays where you tell her to stay. Don't make excuses for her misbehavior.

You are right about this and I do feel the same way. It's just so easy to make excuses when she was such a doll when we were towards the front. I got her to stop and stand a couple of times with no trouble at all but the second we moved forwards again she would take off at a ridiculously fast walk. I circled her back towards the pasture with no trouble and she would calm down when we faced the other way, but the second she turned back towards the other horses she would speed up again. Did that a few times and then she suddenly made her grand escape towards the front of the pack. :? I didn't have a good enough grip to whip her back around when she bolted, although I did try. I've got the blisters to prove it. (My own darn fault, sigh.) I've walked her with smaller groups of three and four other horses before and never had any problem no matter where she was situated, so this was unexpected.

 

[clumsychelsea]

I gotta agree with Yogiwick, here. If a horse I am riding charges to the fore, she better keep going, cause she isn't stopping until she thinks she's going to die. Never let a horse decide where it wants to be. YOU decide. It is a matter of paramount safety for you, the horse, and others around you. Wrap a chain over the brat's nose and start practicing leading properly. Turn left and expect her to keep up. Turn right, and EXPECT her to get out of YOUR way. Stop and back, and expect her to back with you or wait quietly.

Woman, that is a 1000 lb animal. Do you really wanna play with that?

I've been working on her leading manners from the day I bought her. She was pushy when I got her and I spent ages booting it out of her and I haven't had any trouble like this until today. Normally she moves out of my way without any question or argument, and I've never had a problem when I've walked her with other small horsey groups. This was really out of the blue. That said, I guess we're going back to basics!

 

[Yogiwick]

Now you know. Put a chain and get gloves and work on this. Out of rude ground behaviors, short of actively trying to hurt you, this is a 10. I would be ****ed. I would of caught her, kicked her butt, and made her stand therepolitely until the other horses were looonnggg gone. Then made her walk politely and listening to me every step of the way, back home.

She was good up front because she won and got her way. She doesn't get to throw a temper tantrum (she wasn't even alone!!) then get her way! Arg, that makes me madder then anything!!

I'm glad you realize it's an awful excuse, but now go out and fix it. Excuses have 0 place around horses because it's the human intentionally being blind to the horses actions, which when I phrase it like that gets across how dangerous it is. If you realize this you need to fix the behavior you were (maybe intentionally?) ignoring. It needs to be addressed, for both you and your mares best interest.

Sorry for your hands!!! Gloves and chain next time! and if you know you can't hold, let go!

 

[clumsychelsea]

Wish I would have done that at the time now that I think about it! By the time I caught up to them, my BO was already walking her peacefully by his side.

There's another ride tomorrow with seven horses going out. I know all the people going and they aren't planning on doing anything more than a walk because the main purpose of the ride is to show them the new trails. (They help my BO with trail rides.) I was thinking about maybe giving it another try with a bit of a different perspective, keeping her where I want her instead of doing what's easiest. Not positive about if we'll go, but if we do I'll keep her in the back this time. Definitely wearing gloves. :-( Chain isn't a half bad idea until her manners are better.

 

[Yogiwick]

Good for you!! I am glad that you realize the error and are ready to fix it. It's so refreshing to have you respond like that lol!

If she was calmly behaving for your BO there's no point in punishing her (don't punish for being good lol) you missed the opportunity though I am glad he caught her safely! (Her charging past beginner riders is even worse!)

Unfortunately sometimes there are missed opportunities with situations like that, but if you make a point of fixing it in the future which it seems like you are going to do, that is the next best thing.

I would recommend a chain. To make it clear where I'm coming from. Being eager to go forward and distracted isn't good but it's "tolerable", keep on working on it. Pulling you around, yanking the lead out of your hand and bolting is waayyy crossing the line. Then she gets away with it. A chain will definitely help with the latter part. If she is that rude I'm sure she is pushy with other things as well (ETA saw your previous post, she obviously felt it was OK for the behavior to come back when she is upset. Teach her tough luck lol). Use the chain until you know you can hold her, personally, depending on the horse I would continue using it for "finesse".

When she's good you can test her and make her stand and watch them leave. :twisted:

 

[Yogiwick]

I am glad she was good for you getting on and I agree, since she is already broke just get on and ride (once she respects you on the ground!)

 

[clumsychelsea]

When I was walking up to the front of the line I yelled "I hope you gave her some good smacks!" to my BO and he just laughed. He very well might have done something (I've never seen him hesitate to discipline a horse) but he didn't reply so I sort of doubt that he did.

I'll definitely be working on this. I was so distracted by the end of the night because I had gotten to ride her that I completely disregarded her bad behaviour from earlier! As you can probably tell from the opening post, since I sort of threw it over my shoulder without much thought.

Let's all hope for success and a lack of blistered hands tomorrow!

 

[Yogiwick]

Yes and that was the part that jumped out at me lol. He may not of disciplined if she was quiet when he caught her..no point by that time.

Trust me I hear where you are coming from, just for the sake of furthering your mares training and not having this happen again it needs to be addressed. It is ultimately more important though I understand how excited you must of been.

Good luck if you go tomorrow!

 

[BreakableRider]

I for one am very glad that this was a communication error. I about had a heart attack imagining all that could of gone wrong!

Still, whether she was broke at one point or not you should still take some precautions. Set your mare up for success, start at the barn in a controlled environment. Work her saddled on the ground before you ride and don't ride unless she is being respectful, quiet and moving off of light cues. If something is going wrong on the ground, chances are you'll find holes under saddle as well. If she's being too buddy sour to even lead, chances are it would be a recipe for disaster if you rode her. It's great that she will ride bareback, but many people will have better lucky sticking if something were to go wrong if you're riding in a saddle.

I'm a fan of rope halters, the only time I have ever used a chain is on stallions to let them know the difference between regular handling and that they are fixing to get to breed. However, I do not muscle a horse around. What I would have done instead of trying to keep her at the back of the trail ride, was to let her go to the front. By getting into a argument back there, you were only proving what she thought, that the front of the herd was the place to be because it sucked back there. When you got to the front you should have done some groundwork with her and let her rest every time she made any move toward driving toward the back. It is much easier to let a horse make a mistake and then give them the option of trying something new by making their choice difficult instead of putting a lot of energy into preventing it.

Personally, I wouldn't even be leading her down the trail at this point. Most trails don't have enough room to teach a horse much of anything. Instead, i'd work on these skills on a smaller scale at the barn. However I don't lead or pony horses down the trail. I get everything working great at home, then just go ride once I have all the tools to make a trail ride a success.

 

[clumsychelsea]

I for one am very glad that this was a communication error. I about had a heart attack imagining all that could of gone wrong!

Still, whether she was broke at one point or not you should still take some precautions. Set your mare up for success, start at the barn in a controlled environment. Work her saddled on the ground before you ride and don't ride unless she is being respectful, quiet and moving off of light cues. If something is going wrong on the ground, chances are you'll find holes under saddle as well. If she's being too buddy sour to even lead, chances are it would be a recipe for disaster if you rode her. It's great that she will ride bareback, but many people will have better lucky sticking if something were to go wrong if you're riding in a saddle.

I'm a fan of rope halters, the only time I have ever used a chain is on stallions to let them know the difference between regular handling and that they are fixing to get to breed. However, I do not muscle a horse around. What I would have done instead of trying to keep her at the back of the trail ride, was to let her go to the front. By getting into a argument back there, you were only proving what she thought, that the front of the herd was the place to be because it sucked back there. When you got to the front you should have done some groundwork with her and let her rest every time she made any move toward driving toward the back. It is much easier to let a horse make a mistake and then give them the option of trying something new by making their choice difficult instead of putting a lot of energy into preventing it.

Personally, I wouldn't even be leading her down the trail at this point. Most trails don't have enough room to teach a horse much of anything. Instead, i'd work on these skills on a smaller scale at the barn. However I don't lead or pony horses down the trail. I get everything working great at home, then just go ride once I have all the tools to make a trail ride a success.

I didn't realize that it looked like it was her first ride ever!! I didn't even think about it, haha!

I'm getting a couple of different opinions on what should have been done. I want to be able to lead her at the back of a pack without the struggle we had yesterday, but I'm not sure whether strong-handing her into place or relaxing her into it is the best idea.

We're bringing her up to the barn tomorrow (our barn is a 15 minute walk from the summer pasture) to start working her in the round pen and reintroduce her to the saddle. She's taken everything new I've done with her in stride aside from the issue on the trail ride, so I doubt there'll be a lot of problems. I'm slowing down and doing a lot of ground work with her now, just simple stuff like turning and stopping and backing up. She's already good at it, but she gets distracted easily by other horses and people. I'm teaching her to keep her attention on me.

Thank you for your reply!