I sold a horse awhile ago with first buy back rights should she decide to sell him for what ever reason. It was a verbal agreement between us and I don't remember putting it in writing. (I trusted her!!) She has been hiding the fact that she sold him knowing what our agreement is. We have kept in touch over the years (friends on facebook, phone, etc). Privacy settings changed when her marriage was going south so I would'nt know that she had to sell him. The person she sold him to still lets her ride him and see him on a regular basis. I actually asked her and she lied about it all! Do I have any recourse at all to get him back with our verbal agreement?? I know where the horse is and who actually bought him. Any advice at all??
first right to buy back
- Status
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Joined
·
2,309 Posts
As far as I know, unless there is something in writing, she doesn't have to conform to the terms you talked about. Words aren't legal documentation, especially if it's one claiming something was said against somebody saying a different thing was said with no proof. It's a lesson a lot of people seem to learn when they sell a horse, unfortunately
Joined
·
3,436 Posts
If it wasn't in writing it can't be held up.. even in court
Joined
·
710 Posts
Nope. Depending on your state verbal agreements do have some weight. However, the 'first right to buy back' is not typically enforced in courts. I've heard of a couple people being able to win these cases, but for the most part it won't stand even if written.
My advice is to reach out the new owners - NICELY. Let them know you previously owned the horse before 'Person A' & would just like to keep in touch if they're okay with that. I would let them know you had a verbal agreement to buy the horse back should Person A choose to sell, this was not held up, but you would like to extend this agreement to them as well. They don't have to accept you into their lives. Nor do they owe you anything. As far as they're aware the horse was sold, no strings, no issues. You can at least extend that offer & see where it goes.
My advice is to reach out the new owners - NICELY. Let them know you previously owned the horse before 'Person A' & would just like to keep in touch if they're okay with that. I would let them know you had a verbal agreement to buy the horse back should Person A choose to sell, this was not held up, but you would like to extend this agreement to them as well. They don't have to accept you into their lives. Nor do they owe you anything. As far as they're aware the horse was sold, no strings, no issues. You can at least extend that offer & see where it goes.
Joined
·
3,795 Posts
Actually, that's not true. A contract is a contract, even if its verbal. The question becomes how much is the fight worth to you? Do you have witnesses willing to miss work to come to court to testify? Do you have funds to pay a witness fee if you subpoena witnesses to court? Depositions? The court reporter fee? The attorney fees? The court costs? A process server fee?
And remember - just because you subpoena someone to court doesn't mean you can force them to tell the truth once they're on the stand.
I say this from 20 years experience working for two different attorneys.
I also say this from watching my daughter sell her first horse, the mother of our filly Oops, to a girl who wanted a horse to ride while pregnant that was an easy keeper, sweet horse rather than her own barrel horses.
Nope was sold for 400.00 because my daughter knew her, the agreement was if she wanted to sell her later, we'd buy her back.
Nope was listed on Craigslist in less than 24 hours as a broke-broke kids horse, great for play days and trails, and that she loved her horse, she had had her for years, and just didn't have time for her anymore.
She refused to sell her back to us at a reasonable price, she was seeking a 'kids broke horse' dollar amount out of her: 2500.00
I even offered to pay what she paid, plus a weeks worth of feed and come get her myself.
She flat refused, she made a big deal out of it on a facebook site for local horse owners, her mother called us crack heads, literally called us crackheads... and the insanity only ended when I publicly stated that her daughter intentionally deceived us, it was a lesson learned, and I would not engage anyone in further discussion... Mom and daughter then cloned my daughter's account and proceeded to attack themselves and then reported my daughter. FB quickly figured it out, they were both reprimanded, and only THEN did they figure out my husband had been the probation officer for the girl's dad and mom's husband. (HAD our daughter talked to my husband/her dad about it and told him who these people were, he'd have warned her off them, but she didn't. She did this all on her own.)
Only then did they figure out they'd shot themselves in the foot because they did it all in public and on a forum packed with people we're friends with and do business with. No one wants to do business with them now and they never did get that horse sold.
My advice to my daughter was: If you care one bit about a horse in the future or think you may want the horse back later, do not sell it, and certainly don't sell it to just anyone that has a hard luck story.
And remember - just because you subpoena someone to court doesn't mean you can force them to tell the truth once they're on the stand.
I say this from 20 years experience working for two different attorneys.
I also say this from watching my daughter sell her first horse, the mother of our filly Oops, to a girl who wanted a horse to ride while pregnant that was an easy keeper, sweet horse rather than her own barrel horses.
Nope was sold for 400.00 because my daughter knew her, the agreement was if she wanted to sell her later, we'd buy her back.
Nope was listed on Craigslist in less than 24 hours as a broke-broke kids horse, great for play days and trails, and that she loved her horse, she had had her for years, and just didn't have time for her anymore.
She refused to sell her back to us at a reasonable price, she was seeking a 'kids broke horse' dollar amount out of her: 2500.00
I even offered to pay what she paid, plus a weeks worth of feed and come get her myself.
She flat refused, she made a big deal out of it on a facebook site for local horse owners, her mother called us crack heads, literally called us crackheads... and the insanity only ended when I publicly stated that her daughter intentionally deceived us, it was a lesson learned, and I would not engage anyone in further discussion... Mom and daughter then cloned my daughter's account and proceeded to attack themselves and then reported my daughter. FB quickly figured it out, they were both reprimanded, and only THEN did they figure out my husband had been the probation officer for the girl's dad and mom's husband. (HAD our daughter talked to my husband/her dad about it and told him who these people were, he'd have warned her off them, but she didn't. She did this all on her own.)
Only then did they figure out they'd shot themselves in the foot because they did it all in public and on a forum packed with people we're friends with and do business with. No one wants to do business with them now and they never did get that horse sold.
My advice to my daughter was: If you care one bit about a horse in the future or think you may want the horse back later, do not sell it, and certainly don't sell it to just anyone that has a hard luck story.
Joined
·
9,108 Posts
Even if it WAS in writing in an official contract, it usually is impossible to hold up in court.
Because .... the current owner can set the price. So they can offer you to buy the horse back for $500,000 and you say "no", well, you've just declined. Now they can move on to selling to horse to someone else for a different negotiated price.
And there are more ways around it than that.
Fact of the matter is that when you sell a horse, you sell a horse. They are no longer yours. Sure, there are plenty of good folks out there who might honor the first buy back, but don't be surprised when someone doesn't.
So I guess my advice would be to let it go and move on. Unless you want to dish out big bucks on an attorney where you'd probably lose in court anyway...
Or go up to new owner and say "Hey, I like your horse. Can I buy him?" (And leave the baggage out of it.)
Because .... the current owner can set the price. So they can offer you to buy the horse back for $500,000 and you say "no", well, you've just declined. Now they can move on to selling to horse to someone else for a different negotiated price.
And there are more ways around it than that.
Fact of the matter is that when you sell a horse, you sell a horse. They are no longer yours. Sure, there are plenty of good folks out there who might honor the first buy back, but don't be surprised when someone doesn't.
So I guess my advice would be to let it go and move on. Unless you want to dish out big bucks on an attorney where you'd probably lose in court anyway...
Or go up to new owner and say "Hey, I like your horse. Can I buy him?" (And leave the baggage out of it.)
Joined
·
3,795 Posts
Which is EXACTLY what happened to my daughter.
She got first right of buy back... at 2500.00. The girl DID actually lower the price to 1600.00, but that's still four times what she paid for Nope.
Daughter learned that lesson the hard way.
She got first right of buy back... at 2500.00. The girl DID actually lower the price to 1600.00, but that's still four times what she paid for Nope.
Daughter learned that lesson the hard way.
Joined
·
37,437 Posts
Unfortunately these things struggle to hold up in court, even in writing, so a verbal agreement stands no chance, you might have a slightly better one if someone witnessed the verbal agreement but basically the old saying holds true - 'If it aint written down it never happened'
The person would just deny she agreed to it and you'd have no proof that she did.
Its the downside of selling a horse - once the money changes hands it goes out of your control.
The person would just deny she agreed to it and you'd have no proof that she did.
Its the downside of selling a horse - once the money changes hands it goes out of your control.
Joined
·
2,425 Posts
An oral contract is still a contract, so she's in breach. Unfortunately, the plaintiff has to prove her case in court, so you either have paperwork or a witness to the oral agreement.
(All you need to establish a contract is (a) an offer, (b) an acceptance of the offer, and (c) an exchange of consideration (something of value). As far as I can see, you got a contract. But yeah, you made it hard to prove your case.
(All you need to establish a contract is (a) an offer, (b) an acceptance of the offer, and (c) an exchange of consideration (something of value). As far as I can see, you got a contract. But yeah, you made it hard to prove your case.
Joined
·
288 Posts
When I bought my gelding, I did a lease-to-buy contract which included a clause with a right to buy back at the original sales price which was $1200.00. It was a legally binding contract so even if the value of this horse exceeded that $1200.00 down the road, I would still have to offer him back to his breeder at that $1200.00, legally. The breeder could maybe be nice (and I think he would have had the value of the horse exceeded that price because he was a nice guy) and offer me more money, but legally the breeder could get him back at that $1200.00 and I would have to comply because that's what was agreed upon in the contract. In the end I did end up selling the horse and I offered him back to the breeder but he declined as he was sticking with just the three horses he currently had so I sold the horse to somebody else.
But, as a lesson learned, ALWAYS get a written sales contract (depending on how much you value the animal, I guess...at least get a written Bill of Sale), NO MATTER WHAT. No matter who you are selling the animal to, no matter how trustworthy they are, no matter how long you have known them, etc. And make sure any and all requirements you as the seller want are written clear as day in that sales contract. If you want a first right of refusal, include that. If you want the first right of refusal to include that it must be for the original purchase price, include that as well. I have seen sales contracts also include that the seller retains the rights to X amount of foals from a mare, X amount of breedings to a stud, etc. The clearer the requirements, the more likely they are to hold up in court should something happen.
I'm sorry that this happened and I hope that the new owner will at least let you know that the horse is doing well but unfortunately they are not legally obligated to although they may be sympathetic to your situation. At this point you may check in to your local laws regarding the verbal agreement you had with your friend but chances are you won't get anywhere with it.
But, as a lesson learned, ALWAYS get a written sales contract (depending on how much you value the animal, I guess...at least get a written Bill of Sale), NO MATTER WHAT. No matter who you are selling the animal to, no matter how trustworthy they are, no matter how long you have known them, etc. And make sure any and all requirements you as the seller want are written clear as day in that sales contract. If you want a first right of refusal, include that. If you want the first right of refusal to include that it must be for the original purchase price, include that as well. I have seen sales contracts also include that the seller retains the rights to X amount of foals from a mare, X amount of breedings to a stud, etc. The clearer the requirements, the more likely they are to hold up in court should something happen.
I'm sorry that this happened and I hope that the new owner will at least let you know that the horse is doing well but unfortunately they are not legally obligated to although they may be sympathetic to your situation. At this point you may check in to your local laws regarding the verbal agreement you had with your friend but chances are you won't get anywhere with it.
Joined
·
14,250 Posts
Equine Legal Solutions | First Refusal Rights - Equine Legal Solutions
Looks like a good summary. These issues would fall under state law. That can vary greatly depending on previous court decisions and what specific state laws actually allow. In many cases, it would also fall under small claims courts. From my limited experience with them, judges in small claims courts...well, there is a REASON they are not judges in larger courts. I'm not a lawyer, and Internet advice on law can be spectacularly wrong.
Looks like a good summary. These issues would fall under state law. That can vary greatly depending on previous court decisions and what specific state laws actually allow. In many cases, it would also fall under small claims courts. From my limited experience with them, judges in small claims courts...well, there is a REASON they are not judges in larger courts. I'm not a lawyer, and Internet advice on law can be spectacularly wrong.
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
