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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After months of intermittent lameness in different limbs depending on direction etc. I called the vet out with the assumption that I was looking at joint pain, possible hock/stifle. Vet did full lameness exam and came to the conclusion that his lameness is due to heel pain because his heels are so under run, he's basically walking on his heel bulbs. She recommended shoes all around with leather pads up front.

I did some (maybe too much) research and found "flapper" or "flip flop" pads that supposedly help with under run heel pain. Has anyone used these before? Opinions? I can get photos of his feet if that would help.
 

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Photos of the feet always can help....

The hoof gurus...the resident professionals would appreciate seeing so they can offer the best information based upon what they are seeing and what is being proposed as a remedy and fix...

I'm sure soon those in the know will be here and help....
Me...mum is the word.
I will read, and learn to broaden my knowledge. :bowwdown:
:runninghorse2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Photos of the feet always can help....

The hoof gurus...the resident professionals would appreciate seeing so they can offer the best information based upon what they are seeing and what is being proposed as a remedy and fix...

I'm sure soon those in the know will be here and help....
Me...mum is the word.
I will read, and learn to broaden my knowledge.

I'm going out to the barn in just a bit, I'll grab some decent photos. Hopefully theyre salvageable!
 

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Yes, pictures please.
Under run heels go hand in hand with stretched forward toes, so any true correction, is going to involve backing up those toes to get those heels back under the horse

https://barehoofcare.com/index.php/...hoof-capsule-problems/underrun-heals-article/

Here is a very good article on the condition, and management, with the degree of true fix and just management, being determined on how much damage has been done to that back of the foot.
Starting with a trim, to try and get the heels back where they belong, is very important, versus just palliative methods that make the hoof look better, but actually increase damage

Managing a Horse's Underrun Heels | TheHorse.com

You could send digital pictures to Dr Stephan O Grady, for a consult
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, pictures please.
Under run heels go hand in hand with stretched forward toes, so any true correction, is going to involve backing up those toes to get those heels back under the horse

He has always had an issue with "long toe/low heel" I just didn't realize it was so bad, or maybe it wasn't until recently. But my current farrier has taken quite a bit of toe off which I was excited to see because I'm usually disappointed with how long his toes are after trims/shoeings no matter the farrier I use.
 

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I also have a question about the shoes themselves. I've never been good at talking to my farriers about "what I want" because I really don't know too much about feet and don't want to be the nagging client that googles everything and brings him weird articles. Anyway, this morning I went out on a limb and texted my farrier and just asked "Could we try a flapper/flip flop pad all around instead of steel shoes to help with his heel pain?" and he said yes... So is he going to provide these strange shoes or am I supposed to order them? I don't even know what size my horse wears!
 

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I also have a question about the shoes themselves. I've never been good at talking to my farriers about "what I want" because I really don't know too much about feet and don't want to be the nagging client that googles everything and brings him weird articles. Anyway, this morning I went out on a limb and texted my farrier and just asked "Could we try a flapper/flip flop pad all around instead of steel shoes to help with his heel pain?" and he said yes.. So is he going to provide these strange shoes or am I supposed to order them? I don't even know what size my horse wears!
Ask your farrier...he is the only one who can answer that question accurately.

Many farriers supply the products they place on hooves and use, but I also know of times when a specific product was needed and seldom used by them that the client {you} was expected to furnish for them...

Text the farrier again and ask him specifically if he will provide or do you and what size do you need to order...
:runninghorse2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Fl (1-4), fr (5-8), hr (9-10)
 

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Continued.. HR (1-3), HL (4-8)

As a side note: he's has pretty ugly fungus on his hind pasterns for the past month or so, I've tried everything I can think of, washing/ not washing (keeping dry), topical meds, a week of SMZ's, topical smz, fungus free, leaving them to breathe naked... Nothing's making any sort of difference good or bad!
 

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I can't offer much advice on the pads, however I am interested to hear what others have to say, as my mare has a similar issue with her hind feet, though she only wears the outsides of her hind heels out, giving her a perpetual lean (hasn't quite progressed into a rollover yet). As for scratches on the back of the pasterns, that is quite common in horses, especially where they have white skin such as areas with white markings. My old mare has had it in the past when we lived at my parent's, but not since changing properties. Unfortunately, it seems that once it is in an area your horse will be at risk. I've known people to just leave it and let it heal on its own, but I had good success with applying a vet-prescribed ointment and keeping it bandaged along with doing my best to avoid mud & moist areas (which I know can be hard). Some people swear by swat, M.T.G, or even fiebings though
 

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To me it looks like your horse has quite a case of thrush, especially deep in the sulcus (that crack between the heel bulbs). This can be very painful for the horse, and even lead to lameness in severe cases...
How deep is that crack?
 

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So, the last pictures are of the hind feet, right?
They almost appear to have a negative palmer angle,and the bars, esp are badly over grown, with the first baring surface on the right bar (picture orientation ), almost seeming to be in the middle of that bar.
Heels appear un even, and the frog is pulled forward, thus some hoof mapping to determine the true apex of the frog, and the widest part of the hoof is needed.
You can google ELPO (equine lameness prevention organization, and there are two good videos on this subject, plus written info

I think the trim is paramount, and then decide as to what special shoing might or might not help. Shoes will lock in any pathology, so that mapping should be done,, and then determine goals that are attainable

Far as any special shoing, that your farrier does not routinely carry, I have always bought those things, after asking if my farrier was comfortable in applying them
In my case, it was for my IR horse, that got set back very badly, by a professional I trusted), and where barefoot and hoof boot rehabilitation alone were not working
I special ordered several different support shoing, and found what worked best in the end, including glue on shoes, after finding out if my farrier was willing to apply them.

Thrush is a pastern dermatitis, caused by various organisms so what works in one case,well might not in another. They can be bacterial, fungal and even viral or caused by a mite.
Thus, in cases that are difficult to resolve, using something that is at least both anti bacterial and anti fungal is a good start. De worm with Ivermectin, in case a mite is the problem
Most of the organisms causing scratches are opportunistic, meaning they are not primary invaders, but need some breach in the skin to invade.
Photosynthesis on white feet, dew, walking through things like thistles, or any other skin irritant, open the way for scratches
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
How do I get rid of the deep sulcus thrush? And will I be able to treat it after his shoes are put on?

As for his hoof problems, if I take that info (about his bars, uneven heels etc.) to my farrier, will he be able to correct it or is it an actual abnormality? Are his heels actually too low and could be the cause of his discomfort and now that they are so under run, is there any way to bring them back? (I've read a few articles lately that say that once they're under run, they're stuck like that and you can only manage the problem, never actually bring the heels back to where they should be)
 

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re deep sulcus thrush: I had good results with a 50/50 mixture of triple antibiotic (the one with the pain relief seemed to work even better) and athlete's foot cream. Mix them together, put in a syringe with a soft tip and put it in the crack...
But I agree with Smilie, the trim is paramount. And yes, underrun heels can be fixed!
 

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Firstly, yes, 'flapper pads'(not that I've heard that term) which are flexible, with half shoes could be very good for him. Or my choice would be something like Eponas or Easyshoes, which are an all in one - flexible shoe with frog support & you don't need a steel rim as well. Because what he needs is support under his frogs and *relief* of heel walls. See my reply to the 'high-low' thread for more info.

If he's 'always been' as in for many years, like that, then it's unlikely he will develop much more strength of digital cushion now, even with walls improved, so he may always require artificial support under his frogs/heel bulbs. But I would not say he's too low at the heels(in fronts at least, hinds may well be) - horses SHOULD be landing on their frogs/heel bulbs, without walls protruding lower. While heel walls are still a bit long & forward after the trim & will take a few trims at very least to become good(without doing too much & laming horse), the bars, esp on hinds are quite overgrown & desperately need trimming. That can cause pain & probs of themselves.
 
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