[MIEventer]

Yesterday at the barn, while I was riding Nelson in the indoor - there was a fellow boarder on her HUGE massive Irish Sport Horse. HUGE MOFO, seroiusly! He was being very spunky under saddle for her, and I remember hearing the BO saying "don't let him do that" and the rider responded "why? It's just him being him, I accept it"

And she sat quietly, rode him through it and that was that.

I respect her for that! I respect the fact that she accepts her horse for who he is and allows him to express himself in his way. Instead of beating him into submission.

Most riders would of beat him with their crop, or yanked on his face or made him work his *** off until he submitted - but not her. And for that, I applaud her and respect her.

Just as Allison said - team work, teamsmanship, group effort - not one dominating the other.

 

[gypsygirl]

me too eventerdrew ! i dont see why more people dont event mares

 

[Juniper]

thanks for posting that. those horses are impossibly beautiful.

 

[kchfuller]

Thanks for posting that.

I learned a lot from reading all the responses as well. Eventing has always caught my eye but I don't think I have the guts to do it.

 

[maura]

The other thing that struck me about vid is that is must have been the first vet inspection of the event, before any competetion took place. The horses are beautifully groomed and several were braided. So not only are they hard fit and fresh, they must have thought they were getting dressed up to do something fun - the attitude of "THAT'S IT????????Jog up and down this little strip of asphalt? I wanna go DO something." is palpable.

I suspect the vet inspection after XC is a little more subdued.

 

[dressagexlee]

A huge difference between event horses and most other disciplines is that we do NOT endeavor to make our horses robots with no will of their own. A horse like that can be a poor event horse.

We allow them to have an opinion as they are an important part of a TEAM. Without their ability to express their knowledge too, they will be unable to scrape themselves out of a bad situation....sometimes coming as a result of a poor decision of the rider.

It is hard to explain why we do not need or WANT a robotic partner. That being said, we sometimes have to endure our partner expressing themselves at inconvenient times. I used to chuckle, even through my angst.

Yes, exactly!
Unless my horse is disrespecting my space or another being's space, then they have every right to let fly antics of personality. Countless times, as you said, it can save a rider's life if the horse has been allowed to maintain their power to "speak" for themselves.
I'd rather my horse refuse the jump instead of taking the bad distance and landing in the middle of the oxer. I'd like him to show me when he's feeling happy, excited, fearful, depressed, or sick so that I can make the best decisions for our safety. I'd want him to do something (or not do something) based on his own willingness, instead of just doing it because it's his job. It's not his job, he never applied for it, he is not obligated to work for us. It's his lifestyle that he shares with his partner (us), and he has the right to enjoy it and express what he's feeling.

 

[paintsrule]

So if my horse bucks me off and goes for a nice gallop around the ring I can just blow it off and say, thats just him being him? How bout no. My horse doesnt get away with that, no Im not gonna beat him but he wont get away with that. He'll be ridden and respectfully corrected till he stops. And no thats not taking away his "spirit" and making him a "robot" its teaching him to respect his job. He does still enjoy and do very well at his job but hes not disrepectful and unhandleable while doing so. Its a stupid excuse to chalk obvious misbehaviour up to an "athlete showing off"

 

[ridergirl23]

haha this is funny, because yesturday, rena did NOT want to pick up the right canter, because i was askign her to pick it up while she waas a littl more 'through' her body. haha she threw in a few bucks/crow hops. I just sat deep and asked her to walk and we would do it again, rena has her opinion, its a 50/50 relationsship. we work together, but do you think, if there was two mountain climbing partners tied together (because their in a huge blizzard) that the more experienced one is going to say: 'oh, its ok, hes jsut showing off!' while the other guy is jumping around on thin ice???? no. a partnership is about them BOTH putting in equal effort and trusting eachother. I wont accept my partnerleaping and being UNRELIABLE. but i dont expect her to be good when im not 100% with her either. I just had to add my 0.02 on this thread, haha just to let y'all know what i think partnership is, and that i do know a lot of dressage riders who DO excpect their hroses to be robots.... but i know a lot that dont, beautiful horses in the vid!

 

[Quixotic]

I think it's important to also point out that this is a show environment, meaning these horses are NOT at home in their comfort zone. They're in a new environment, with thousands of people watching them. They can pick up on excitement and nerves, and they will act accordingly. A horse could be a perfect gentleman at home, but when you bring them into that sort of situation, 9 times out of 10, they are going to get a little frisky. (I'm not talking about your run of the mill horse here, I'm talking specifically about eventers.) I've seen even our calmest school ponies get all snorty & frisky when brought to an event. It's not the horse misbehaving, it's his way of saying, "ooh,what's happening now? this could be exciting!"

 

[Wallaby]

If only Lacey was younger, all this is sounding like she could have been an excellent eventer. :lol:

 

[Mercedes]

A huge difference between event horses and most other disciplines is that we do NOT endeavor to make our horses robots with no will of their own. A horse like that can be a poor event horse.

Bullcrap. It has NOTHING to do with the discipline and EVERYTHING to do with the individual person. There are as many robots in eventing as there is in any other discipline. The fact remains most people who own horses are content to have a robot, and it's probably best that way...less deaths to humans.

It's also bullcrap to place an eventing horse as some better fit horse than any other horse at the top of their discipline. I've seen cutting horses loped for an hour solid before a class, and still be almost too sharp. My Standardbreds were as fit as any eventing horse as racehorses and later on as CT&E mounts.

Making such statements, while showing passion for your sport, also shows ignorance about other disciplines.

I'm also a believer that bad behavior is bad behavior no matter how you cut it, no matter the excuses you make for it. The question becomes what will you put up with and to what extent. That differs for everyone.

I'm all for allowing a horse to think for itself, be expressive, play a 49% role in the partnership, even talk back on occasion when I'm out of line, but poor behavior on a lead for a simple task like jogging out is unacceptable, unless there is some outside factor not expected and accounted for.

I notice in the video that all the horses trotted out well, but when turned around and asked to trot back, acted up. Since the behavior was consistant throughout, I have to assume that some external force not seen in the camera view was a play. A flag waving? A piece of machinery? The Queen waving her umbrella?

It also seems entirely ridiculous to trot horses out in the environment set out with flower pots and blah, blah, blah, but the British are funny that way.

It would serve better, imo, to have the horses longed in both directions, at all three gaits to determine lameness more accurately particularly if it's fully acceptable to have the horses rearing, bucking etc... on line.

 

[Quixotic]

I personally was referring to Eventers, because that's the discipline I know, so I don't have the experience with, say, cutting horses, to comment on their showtime disposition.
I will say that I don't find rearing to be acceptable at any time. My trainer's colt tried to pull that a few times when she first got him, & that was corrected very quickly.

 

[roro]

This isn't discipline specific. It simply has to do with the energy level of the horse and the quality of the handler.

When you watch this video, at first we might assume 'wow, that horse is really full of himself' (dressage stallion by the way). But if you look closer, you will see that it is mostly the handler who is at fault. In most of these videos of horses trotting in hand, I see one glaringly obvious flaw: the horse is trotting faster than the handler can jog. The handler tries to pull on the horse's nose to get him to slow down. The horse turns towards the handler and now the handler is blocking him, the horse is now prone to leashing out at the handler if he chooses to do so. The handler in this particular video is also tentative, by constantly pulling and raising his arms up he excites the horse. He is also looking to the horse for what he will do next, which gives the horse the power instead of the handler. He is hesitant and afraid. It is also happening in the eventing video in the OP, the handlers fall back to the shoulder of the horse giving him the lead. The handler then tries to turn/slow down the horse and pulls the horse towards them or realizes that since he (the horse) is in front, he is the one leading. Handlers should be leading at the horse's cheekbone and give some space on the lead instead of being glued to their shoulder. I don't care if the horse is the best in the world and can run miles and miles on end, he isn't going to rear at me. Mercedes covered the other points in a better way than I could have worded them, so I won't repeat them.

 

[LoveStory10]

Lol, yeah... I know this is kinda off topic but... Love doesnt canter on her left lead, NO amount of training has gotten her to do it.... But I respect that. I dont stress over it, its who she is

 

[dressagexlee]

The handlers in that video just seem like idiots, Roro. You're right, the body language of the handlers is just asking them to rear and spin and move in closer. Most of the time, including some of the situations in the original video posted, the handler causes the problem, sometimes without even realizing it. Other times, the horse just feels too over-stimulated by it's surroundings, and even the most well-behaved horse can forget his manners and get in the space of the handler. It's all in how you react to it in preference to what the horse realizes as his handler saying "stop that."
Take Freddy, for example. Back when my sister exercised him for the owner when she couldn't make it to the barn, he went through a phase where he would rear while being lead. This started when one of the old half-leasers experienced it, so his owner asked to see how she dealt with it.
She would yank sideways on the lead rope to bring him back down (works with some horses) and then he would proceed to rear again. Freddy loves to play games, and just be an all around annoyance to the people that let him, so what started as a spook or a release of energy had turned into a game of agging on the half-leaser. How the problem was fixed? Ignoring it. When he tried to rear, we'd simply keep leading, not even looking at him or stopping.
He hasn't reared since.


Check this out!

 

[Brighteyes]

All I have to say is that there is a fine line between spirit and disrespect. This goes for all horses in all disciplines -- eventer, dressage horse, reiner, jumper, or a 'common' trail horse.

 

[Cougar]

Every now and again a horse is bound to feel fresh and can be silly. I wouldn't be tolerating that on a day to day basis from any of my guys. They'd be in trouble that's for sure.

 

[wild_spot]

Eventer aren't the only horses who need to think for themselves instead of giving unswerving obedience.

Cowhorses, especially cutters, are a prime example.

The horse often has a better instinct of what the cow is going to do and most of the time the horse needs to use it's own brainpower to get out of a sticky spot. They need to use their own thought process to map where that cow is going to be and get there first. They need their own reactions to get the HELL out of the way if a rank cow has a go at them.

Does that mean their handlers let them get away with crap like that on the ground? No way. Most cowhorses are some of the most broke, considerate and calm horses on the ground.

Asking for decent behaviour from a horse in a trot-out will NOT compromise their ability to think for themselves. It is just good manners. Being an athlete does not give them any excuse for that kind of behaviour.

I agree 100% with Mercedes.

 

[wild_spot]

Roro - They were handling that first horse how I would handle a cow - Getting my presence up tnear the eye to turn them. That does NOT work with a horse, no wonder it was getting ****y!

 

[ridergirl23]

the people leading those horses in the videos sometimes seem almost scared O_0 of the horse! i cant imagine daring to take a horse to a show that doesnt listen to me when their excited! All the hroses i have had, i make sure, whenever they are scared or uneasy they pay more attention to me then when they are at home and calm! stallions being excited is a different situation..... but you'd think they'd know how to HANDLE a horse better then that!!!!!