I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I have kept horses for many years and thankfully have had very few problems in the past. Kili, my 14 year old Dutch Warmblood has changed all of that. Two years ago he developed uviitis which has been almost impossible to treat despite quarterly trips to the specialty vet. We are holding the line but his eyes chronically tear and itch. A month ago he foundered. My fault as he was 50# overweight. The vet and farrier graded the founder a 2 and its gotten no worse but his pain has not improved at all. I have been giving him bute and Banamine but he's still painful. We've just started him in Sort-Ride founder boots. He's at the point where I need to stop the pain meds. I do have him on a hollistic chromium supplement as well. Anybody have any suggestions as to what else I can do? Any experience with how long the pain should last? Also, the vet wants him turned out every day but he gets to the back of the paddock and stands there waiting for me to get him in. He'll stand there for hours. I feel terrible for him and would appreciate any suggestions.
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I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I have kept horses for many years and thankfully have had very few problems in the past. Kili, my 14 year old Dutch Warmblood has changed all of that. Two years ago he developed uviitis which has been almost impossible to treat despite quarterly trips to the specialty vet. We are holding the line but his eyes chronically tear and itch. A month ago he foundered. My fault as he was 50# overweight. The vet and farrier graded the founder a 2 and its gotten no worse but his pain has not improved at all. I have been giving him bute and Banamine but he's still painful. We've just started him in Sort-Ride founder boots. He's at the point where I need to stop the pain meds. I do have him on a hollistic chromium supplement as well. Anybody have any suggestions as to what else I can do? Any experience with how long the pain should last? Also, the vet wants him turned out every day but he gets to the back of the paddock and stands there waiting for me to get him in. He'll stand there for hours. I feel terrible for him and would appreciate any suggestions.
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Gosh, I'm really sorry for your boy.
Could you give us a little more information on what is going on with him? For starters what does the vet say about the founder, the cause, and what to do about it?
What are you feeding him,
Is it all four feet or something else,
I know you said he was 50lbs overweight and while that is 50lbs, is that for certain what the vet attributed the founder to?
Is he on any supplements,
are there any other things going on with his health, how's his coat etc.
Have you had him longer than the two years mentioned and if not do you know anything of his prior history?
And finally, could you post some pictures of him and his little feet?
It's just that there are a lot of things that go into a founder situation and it's bad enough tossing out advice over the internet and worse still with limited information.
Could you give us a little more information on what is going on with him? For starters what does the vet say about the founder, the cause, and what to do about it?
What are you feeding him,
Is it all four feet or something else,
I know you said he was 50lbs overweight and while that is 50lbs, is that for certain what the vet attributed the founder to?
Is he on any supplements,
are there any other things going on with his health, how's his coat etc.
Have you had him longer than the two years mentioned and if not do you know anything of his prior history?
And finally, could you post some pictures of him and his little feet?
It's just that there are a lot of things that go into a founder situation and it's bad enough tossing out advice over the internet and worse still with limited information.
As far as we can tell the weight is the underlying cause. He's now on grass hay and a cup of Purina weight control feed twice a day to mix with the chromium supplement. He's lost some weight over the past month. I believe his feet are all that's involved. I was guilty of too many carrots and other treats and not enough work.
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Read, read, and read again. Run it by your vet. Find a good trimmer. Get a slowfeeder of any kind for his hay.
While the feed is not bad, there are better options.
And get him tested for PPID/ Cushings and IR, since the teary, itchy eyes point towards it.
To say anything about his feet, we would need pictures. Taken from ground level, from the side, and the soles. There are a bunch of knowledgeable people here who can help you and guide you in the right direction.
Oh, and welcome to the forum
Read, read, and read again. Run it by your vet. Find a good trimmer. Get a slowfeeder of any kind for his hay.
While the feed is not bad, there are better options.
And get him tested for PPID/ Cushings and IR, since the teary, itchy eyes point towards it.
To say anything about his feet, we would need pictures. Taken from ground level, from the side, and the soles. There are a bunch of knowledgeable people here who can help you and guide you in the right direction.
Oh, and welcome to the forum
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Welcome, but sorry to hear of your boy's issues.
I second all of Desert's advice, except for getting him tested right now for IR & such. Can be necessary, but the tests also have their own issues, including potential for further laminitic 'attacks'. So of course, look into it, ask your vet etc, but I'd avoid it at least until he's better, just assume he's IR & treat him as such. If he's 'foundered' because of being long term overweight, it's likely he is. I'd be inclined to soak/drain the hay if it's 'improved' pasture hay. Also check out barehoofcare.com
Hoof & horse pics, see link in signature, xrays if poss, and more info if you would like specific hoof advice. In addition to the Chromium, there are other mineral imbalances which will affect his metabolism & hooves. Namely magnesium, which is REALLY worth learning about. Mg Chlor is a good, bioavailable source. And don't quote me on it, but I think it's Mg deficiency(or too high Ca(?)) that has been found to make horses more sensitive to the sun too.
Of course every case is different, but your horse 'should' be well over his laminitic attack by now. So either the metabolic/systemic problems are still ongoing, &/or there are serious mechanical issues with his hooves. Yes, exercise & free movement is indeed important, but so is comfort. So if your horse doesn't want to move, ground's too hard without padded boots or such, I wouldn't try to force the issue. Bute may of course be necessary, but it also can cause further issues, esp if long term. I'd be getting him off it ASAP & give probiotics as well, to help his gut heal. There are also effective herbal alternatives for pain, if he's too severe still.
I second all of Desert's advice, except for getting him tested right now for IR & such. Can be necessary, but the tests also have their own issues, including potential for further laminitic 'attacks'. So of course, look into it, ask your vet etc, but I'd avoid it at least until he's better, just assume he's IR & treat him as such. If he's 'foundered' because of being long term overweight, it's likely he is. I'd be inclined to soak/drain the hay if it's 'improved' pasture hay. Also check out barehoofcare.com
Hoof & horse pics, see link in signature, xrays if poss, and more info if you would like specific hoof advice. In addition to the Chromium, there are other mineral imbalances which will affect his metabolism & hooves. Namely magnesium, which is REALLY worth learning about. Mg Chlor is a good, bioavailable source. And don't quote me on it, but I think it's Mg deficiency(or too high Ca(?)) that has been found to make horses more sensitive to the sun too.
Of course every case is different, but your horse 'should' be well over his laminitic attack by now. So either the metabolic/systemic problems are still ongoing, &/or there are serious mechanical issues with his hooves. Yes, exercise & free movement is indeed important, but so is comfort. So if your horse doesn't want to move, ground's too hard without padded boots or such, I wouldn't try to force the issue. Bute may of course be necessary, but it also can cause further issues, esp if long term. I'd be getting him off it ASAP & give probiotics as well, to help his gut heal. There are also effective herbal alternatives for pain, if he's too severe still.
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There is a non- fasting, non glucose added test now with reliable results, so apart from seasonal fluctuation, which has passed for now, it's safe to test.
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It's hard to know without seeing the horse, but the first thing I would try after rasping the wall off at the toe is Styrofoam boots. You can make these yourself out of 2" thick insulation Styrofoam cut to the shape of the foot, with a bit of excess left at the toe. After it is duct taped into place, you will usually see immediate results. When I was taught this method, it was called "portable sand," referring to how laminitic/foundered horses have traditionally been kept in sand to ease pain. Styrafoam boots are not a permanent solution (they should be changed once the foam has compressed), but it can make you horse more comfortable for the time being.
I would also recommend trying to find a farrier who is familiar in applying plywood glue-on's to block the load. With this type of a shoeing package, we can cut sole relief windows to eliminate pressure to the Coffin Bone. By adding a smaller insert to the bottom of the package, we can ease breakover forward, as well as medially and laterally. When the load is blocked and the back of the foot supported, healing can begin.
In school, we learned about horse hair analysis by Dr. Mark DePaolo. We used this on several foundered horses, and found that they either had extreme deficiencies or toxicities in their diets. Dr. DePaolo also formulates a supplement to help correct what is needed (or not needed) in the diet.
DePaolo Equine Concepts · Horse Hair Analysis
I would also recommend trying to find a farrier who is familiar in applying plywood glue-on's to block the load. With this type of a shoeing package, we can cut sole relief windows to eliminate pressure to the Coffin Bone. By adding a smaller insert to the bottom of the package, we can ease breakover forward, as well as medially and laterally. When the load is blocked and the back of the foot supported, healing can begin.
In school, we learned about horse hair analysis by Dr. Mark DePaolo. We used this on several foundered horses, and found that they either had extreme deficiencies or toxicities in their diets. Dr. DePaolo also formulates a supplement to help correct what is needed (or not needed) in the diet.
DePaolo Equine Concepts · Horse Hair Analysis
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Rialto, can trapped gas from the inflammation be present?
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Firstly Welcome to the forum and I'm very sorry to hear about your poor horse The following is what we do with our rescue and it really works...
1. Keep the hay up to him 24/7, soaking it for half an hour before feeding is always a good thing. Absolutely NO grass at this stage.
2. Make sure he has a comfortable soft place to stand - somewhere with sand or packed hay so his feet are supported
3. Feed him SALT - plain sodium clhoride - around 2 tbsp a day
4. Magnesium is also essential so get a good mag supplement.
5. Do not give him any exercise UNTIL he is comfortable and then lead him out each day.
6. Feed PLAIN feeds such as copra and beet soaked together with added oaten chaff. Do not feed ANY equine 'fast food' as this is likely to be full of potassium which is a big part of the problem.
7. Get yourself a good barefoot trimmer to attend to his feet DO NOT be talked into putting shoes of ANY kind on him.
Do all this and his recovery should be quite short - he should be feeling a lot better in a couple of weeks. Zgood luck and let us know how you get on - photographs are always good as a record
The following is what we do with our rescue and it really works...1. Keep the hay up to him 24/7, soaking it for half an hour before feeding is always a good thing. Absolutely NO grass at this stage.
2. Make sure he has a comfortable soft place to stand - somewhere with sand or packed hay so his feet are supported
3. Feed him SALT - plain sodium clhoride - around 2 tbsp a day
4. Magnesium is also essential so get a good mag supplement.
5. Do not give him any exercise UNTIL he is comfortable and then lead him out each day.
6. Feed PLAIN feeds such as copra and beet soaked together with added oaten chaff. Do not feed ANY equine 'fast food' as this is likely to be full of potassium which is a big part of the problem.
7. Get yourself a good barefoot trimmer to attend to his feet DO NOT be talked into putting shoes of ANY kind on him.
Do all this and his recovery should be quite short - he should be feeling a lot better in a couple of weeks. Zgood luck and let us know how you get on - photographs are always good as a record
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Yes, laminitis can present with subsolar abscesses. I have worked with a recovering laminitic horse (6 months since the most recent episode), and found an entire new sole underneath an old abscess "shelf" that covered nearly the entire foot. It is often hard to tell if a horse is sore because of P3 rotation, limb compensation, abscessing, etc in laminitis since everything about it is painful. That said, I was taught that abscesses are a part of the laminitis process, and need to be allowed to run their course. It is my understanding that bute and other anti-inflammatory medications can hinder an abscess from draining, so by taking the horse off of the painkillers you can speed up the process. If an abscess is suspected, soaking the foot with epsom salts and iodine can help to draw it out.
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Yeah, I agree Rialto except in he beginning stages, when the feet are at their most painful - Painkiller such as bute is a MUST! Don't let them suffer - this is an incredibly painful time for them and as they don't yell or scream, some owners miss the signs of extreme pain (sweating, rocking, rapid heart beat etc)
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Of course be aware of your horses comfort is very important. As, i believe, are painkillers when necessary. but removing/treating the cause, trimming feet correctly and padding feet, providing somewhere comfortable to stand/lie should have him comfortable enough shortly & chronic use of bute can make things worse/prolonged. Sometimes the side effects outweigh the good so worth considering.
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Hi mjack, how's your boy doing?
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Have had a foundered mare for about 13 years now and have tried many supplements to rebuild the hoofs. Most did not work, but one that definitely does is a product called 'Lamina Saver'. It took a mushy, wide white line, back to a proper band and firmed the entire hoof back to normal. Only wished I had found it earlier. It is available from Valley Vet and AlliVet. She still gets one scoop a day for maintenance. Definitely worked for us.
I would also 'ration' pasture time, especially in the Spring, to no more than an hour or two a day. Use a dry lot for exercise, spreading your hay ration around to force movement.
It's a tough long process once afflicted, but you can return to a quality life.
Ours also ended up with Cushings about 6 years ago, which is another adventure, but very controllable with a daily dose of Meds (Pergolide).
This will take you some time, but spend it daily, and you can improve the situation.
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I would also 'ration' pasture time, especially in the Spring, to no more than an hour or two a day. Use a dry lot for exercise, spreading your hay ration around to force movement.
It's a tough long process once afflicted, but you can return to a quality life.
Ours also ended up with Cushings about 6 years ago, which is another adventure, but very controllable with a daily dose of Meds (Pergolide).
This will take you some time, but spend it daily, and you can improve the situation.
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