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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay so I lease a horse at a local well known barn. His name is Topper and he is a very well bred and conformational Trekehner stud. He's produced two very amazing jumpers. I use him as my show jumper/dressage horse. Him and I have a very important jump-off in 4H we have to compete in on Saturday, but I just got informed when i went to exercise him, that they had gelded him without telling me or even planning a date with me. So now he cant compete. Even though she is the owner, shouldnt I get the say so with what happens with him? Because im paying my monthly lease on him. We actually had our QH mare lined up to breed with him. But now we cant... any opinions?
 

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Uhm, no. You don't own the horse, and essentially you have absolutely no say in what the OWNER decides.

It's one competition, you won't die or ever not be able to ride again. Plus, are stallions even allowed in 4H??? And also, it's just 4H. Not the end of the world.
 

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Well that sounds crappy, but since you're not the owner I don't see you getting any say in the matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes they are allowed. And i know its one show. and its not the end of the world. But its in our lease contract, no medical decisions will be decided by me with out consulting her, and no medical decisions will be decided by her without consulting me. I even showed her this part of our contract and she said "gelding MY **** horse is not a medical decision" in my eyes having the vet come out and GELD the horse is a MEDICAL decision. thats why im making a big deal out of it.
 

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A lease is just a lease. You don't have any ownership claim on the horse and ultimately no legal say so on what the owner decides to do with him. It might have been nice of her to let you know she had scheduled him for surgery so you could plan accordingly, but she certainly wasn't required to get your okay on it.
 

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Agreed with Paints 150%. You aren't the owner, you don't have any say-so in decisions like that. Last time I checked, in my state stallions aren't allowed to compete in 4-H anyway, although perhaps that varies from state to state. Perhaps a little heads up would have been nice as far as the date of the procedure, but the owner is by no means obligated to check in with lessees for their permission to geld a stud.

Wow, jeez, lots of posts in a short amount of time... I've gotta learn to type quicker... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
and its not that i dont have say in it just because i lease him, its a lease to own situation and just for this horse, our contract states that he is a REGISTERD STALLION, so that is why i wanted to do a lease to own agreement. and the even more funny part about this is.... i've only got like 6-7 more months til i own him.
 

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Nope, her horse, her schedule.

This might have been the only time gelding him worked well for her so she can oversee his recovery. She also probably wanted it done before the hottest months of summer (read: bugs!) set in.

And I agree, there are more shows out there for you after he's healed properly.
 

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and its not that i dont have say in it just because i lease him, its a lease to own situation and just for this horse, our contract states that he is a REGISTERD STALLION, so that is why i wanted to do a lease to own agreement. and the even more funny part about this is.... i've only got like 6-7 more months til i own him.

Well, you didn't mention it was lease to own, did you?

That makes it a breech of contract, and gives you a road out. You can go find a new STALLION to lease-to-own and breed your QH to.
 

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If anything he'll be an easier ride for you once he's gelded... were you going to stand him at stud when you were the owner??

I'm not saying this to be rude, but maybe she saw something in the 2 horses he has on the ground that made her say "hmm... maybe he shouldn't be reproducing."
 

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If anything he'll be an easier ride for you once he's gelded... were you going to stand him at stud when you were the owner??

I'm not saying this to be rude, but maybe she saw something in the 2 horses he has on the ground that made her say "hmm... maybe he shouldn't be reproducing."
^^ That's my thought. As the current owner deciding to sell, she has the right to protect the integrity of the horse's bloodlines and get on the ground by gelding him before sale to assure he isn't bred to anything and everything out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
See i wouldnt mind so much if i havent been paying on him for ummmm 3 years now? Oct. 13th i will officially own him. $250 a month. 48 months. She would have never made the agreement with me if my mom hadnt known her since high school. and o well he's a gelding. ill get over that, but a horse ive put over 10 grand in, id like to keep him intact. are yall even reading my comments? because apparently your not seeing my point on this.
 

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I see you're point. You're paying a lease to buy on a stallion, owner gelded him. Now you might own a gelding come October. But, he's not your horse yet, so she can geld him.

Did you ask her why she did it?
 

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He should be fine to ride by saturday. I usually put a horse to work the second day to keep the swelling down and in a week they are back to full work and I work far harder than any 4-H show. Unless your jumping 6 foot fences he should be fine with a little bute and riding every day up till the show.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
^^ That's my thought. As the current owner deciding to sell, she has the right to protect the integrity of the horse's bloodlines and get on the ground by gelding him before sale to assure he isn't bred to anything and everything out there.
^^well see heres the thing. Both times, the two colts he has on the ground are amazing jumpers. they are 4 and 6 years old and they both are jumping almost as good as he is.
and also He was bred to a registerd Trekehner mare and a registered Hano mare. And with me I would breed him to my REGISTERED QH mare. not just anything and everything. I hate backyard breeders who have grade horses breeding for no reason. These are show horses i want here. not anything and everything.
 

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They could be "amazing jumpers" that are conformationally set up for issues in the future though. You're going to have to talk to the owner as to why she gelded him, she could have a very valid reason or give you a load of bs.

And in my book, a Trak x QH is grade. Just because they're registered doesn't make it better than an unregistered Trak and an unregistered QH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
i asked her, and she just laughed and said he had "disturbed" some of the lesson girls because he was trying to get to one of the mares through his stall. Then she said your mom and i will discuss the gelding some more and she'll explain it better. and walked off.
 

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If you were leasing to own then yes I would be upset, the way I see if since you have been paying for him he is partially owned by you, so she should have consulted you first. However without reading the exact wording of the contract is hard to give you any good advice.
 

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^^well see heres the thing. Both times, the two colts he has on the ground are amazing jumpers. they are 4 and 6 years old and they both are jumping almost as good as he is.
and also He was bred to a registerd Trekehner mare and a registered Hano mare. And with me I would breed him to my REGISTERED QH mare. not just anything and everything. I hate backyard breeders who have grade horses breeding for no reason. These are show horses i want here. not anything and everything.
But could she (the current owner) be certain the person you might someday sell him to would be as careful? She couldn't legally tie you into a contract stating you would have to geld the horse before you sold it. I think she is protecting her investment, and I think she made a wise choice on all levels but one, she entered a contract with you stating she was LEASING you a stallion. Check the fine print, and make sure it also said the horse would be a stallion once he was transferred to your ownership. Unless the contract states that expressly, I doubt you have a case. IF it does, I doubt you could regain the money you have put into him so far, due to the fact you leased him to own rather than bought him outright, but you should be allowed out of the purchase contract.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
well then not to be rude but your book is wrong one of the colts is Double registered, and the other is Trek registered. Sooo as of registration, they are not grade.
 
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