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Hello! I'll just leave this here because at this point I dont know what to do. I don't really like throwing my emotions into my posts, but I really needed to get this one off my chest.

I also want to apologize if my English isn't that great!

I've already talked about owning a green horse as my first horse as a begginer (I literally started taking lessons a few months ago). While I have learnt to handle her and all that, there's a big problem. I'm pretty sure one of the most (if not the most) important part is respect, and I dont think she has any respect for me anymore. I used to lunge her "okay", for someone clueless on what I was doing, she listened and had some sort of respect for me. But then she started turning and walking in, toward me and whenever I tried to get her to go she just turned, walked up to me and tried pushing and walking into me. To be more specific, she raises her head up high amd walks on to me, no pinned ears though, and if I keep asking her to move, the more she keeps trying to push me around. Though I've been able to care for her just fine. Another problem I got is when riding (and I'm sure it has to do with respect aswell) she wont even try to move. I've tried everything, like backing up or going foward, I've tried turning her and nothing has made her move not even an inch. It gets to the point where she's just standing there resting and theres nothing I can do because nothing will make her move. On the other hand, my uncle, the only horse person in my family, is able to ride her perfectly fine. She'll walk, trot, canter, turn to any side or back up with him. Some people have told me things like "oh, get spurs" but first of all, I don't know how to use them properly and secondly, if she doesn't respect me I dont think spurs wpuld make a difference. And I know it's not her fault. I just needed a horse that I'd learn from, and she needs someone that she'd learn from. It breaks my heart because I love her, a lot. I could be incredibly sad or upset and just being near her would totally change my mood. I love her to bits. I feel like if she really found the person perfect for her, she'd be an incredible horse to care for and ride. Last time I spoke with my family about selling her, no one agreed, so I don't think they'll listen now. I can't bring up anything about selling her because I'll most proba just get guilt tripped. I feel so bad for her, and I feel frustrated and clueless, I really don't know what to do.

Any sort of advice is greatly appreciated, sorry if this post seems a bit dramatic or rushed, but it's genuine. Have a very good night/day!
 

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The flood of "green plus green equals black and blue" comments...I can hear them now. They're coming...

There is no shame, no shame whatsoever in saying "this is too much for me". I think if a lot of more people admitted that (to themselves as well as to others) then a lot of accidents, destroyed confidence, and sourness could be avoided. I'm frankly surprised your family would want you to keep her if things aren't working out. You should have a horse that can help you learn the ropes and get into the rhythm of things. If you do end up selling her and getting a more experienced horse (which in my honest opinion you should, it will be safer and a much better experience for you) then I'm sure you can develop a bond with that horse too. This horse you have now isn't the only one that will be able to make you feel better by interacting with. And I'm willing to bet you will have an even closer connection to a horse that you feel safe and confident around and can enjoy riding as opposed to one you can't.

Bottom line, if she's your horse and you're the one who has to interact with her and ride her then it isn't up to your family what decisions you make about trading her for another horse or just selling her (unless of course it's one of them who is the legal owner), which in my honest opinion is the only correct option. I have been there with my first horse. He was sold as beginner safe and while he wasn't dangerous per say, he wasn't a ride for a beginner. It was a lot of frustration. I learned some from the experience. But not much about riding, truth be told and it eroded my confidence a lot.

I hope this didn't come off too strong but I think it's very important in the horse world to be acutely aware of what you can handle and to stick to your guns when it comes to this. Saying "I'm not ready for that", "I don't have the skills for that", "this is too much", "I'm not comfortable with doing that/I don't feel safe doing that", etc. are all things people should be more comfortable communicating and if anyone makes them feel guilty or lesser for it...well, safe to say they shouldn't be listened to in that regard.
 

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If all the people who came to Horse Forum to post variations on this theme (green or spoiled horse plus green rider not working out well), gritted their teeth and hardened their hearts and adjusted their dreams, and moved that inappropriate horse on, and acquired a better for them horse PLUS regular lessons on that horse, how much happier they would be, how much better a chance that inappropriate horse would have to become a sound useful equine companion for someone else.

If your family is the final arbiter of what kind of horse you get to have, well, you are stuck. All you can do is ask for (or earn the money for) more lessons. Lots more.

But here is one tip for making green or stubborn horses move forward: kick them in the sides with both heels. Don't kick hard. Just thump, thump, thump, thump, never letting up or varying until the horse takes ONE STEP. Your goal is to be irritating, not punitive. Do not lose your patience or your temper and escalate. One step, and INSTANTLY stop kicking and pat, praise, and then gather yourself together and ask politely for another step. If, as is likely, the horse just stands there again, start thumping. Again, the key is to thump until a response, any response no matter how small, then instantly stop, praise, take a breath, and ask for a walk. If you do it right, very soon you will have a horse who will walk when asked.

If the horse is just ignoring you because it can (most likely), this will convince it that it's easier to not ignore you, just to get that dang thumping to stop. It will not agitate the horse nor ruin his trust in you, it will teach him that the easier course is to do what he is told, that's all.

Don't think too hard about "respect", as that's a complicated and debatable concept. Think about creating teaching moments, rewarding the right behavior, making the wrong thing uncomfortable and the right thing comfortable.
 

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On your forward movement. When you start asking for movement slowing increase your intensity. As your action reaches a peak use a riding crop or your rein and reach back and tap on the horses hindquarter also increase your asking to move. Just don't give up til he moves and he will if you stay with it. The next time he sees you move a rein or crop he will move just seeing it in the his eye. Things will get better, don't give up and remember the release of pressure is his reward.
 

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I'd skip riding until I got respect on the ground again.
Don't let her walk over you or come in or stop without you asking for it. Step to the hip and demand she goes. Give her a good whip to the butt if she refuses or to the chest if she ends up in your face. Don't keep hitting, make the first one count so you won't have to do it again. Alternatively, you can beat the ground behind her heels first, to get her going, then move to her butt if she still refuses.
Are you using a round pen or on a long line?
In a pen, try shrinking it some so that you can more easily reach her if you need to tap her butt to move instead of chasing after her, which will get tiring.
Have you done any in hand work with her? W/t/c in hand, riding crop in outside hand to tap her butt to keep up with you. Around and over basic obstacles, then start to send her ahead of you, then add that to the obstacles.
Once she's listening to you on the ground with ease and you don't have to beat the ground or get huge at her for her to believe you, then transfer that energy and confidence into the saddle. Ask, tell, demand. Or you could go more gently about it in the saddle, since you're a beginner and if you pop her with a crop, she may lurch forward while you're left behind and that may not end well. So, turn head and ask forward, kick, tap crop. Hopefully, she'll take a step and you can reward that. Then repeat.
 

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First, I should ask whether having a instructor/trainer involved is feasible for you? It doesn't have to be consistent, but rather on a affordable basis. Many things in handling horses cannot merely be learned through reading or figuring it out yourself.

Speaking as someone who was once in your situation (green horse/relatively green rider), the only real way that you can be successful is learning these skills from another skilled horse person, perhaps your uncle would offer to teach you? I was lucky because I was in a situation where I had a trainer on hand in almost every step of the way, but I will say that I spent an enormous amount of time fixing issues I had caused due to not knowing any better. I was also lucky because my horse had a very good mind and was not the type to take advantage of the situation. I have no doubt that I would have been in over my head if those factors were not there, but I will say that the right horse and help can get you very far. I learned a heck of a lot more about training with that horse than I would have otherwise...but again, the circumstances were right.

There is no shame in selling your horse to a good home and searching for one that fits your needs better; however, I will state that ANY horse has the opportunity to disrespect you and pick up bad habits, no matter the level. You'll need a horse with a similar mind to what mine had and it would be best to find one with the basics already instilled because at this point, YOU need a teacher. Even so, horses have a tendency to revert to their handler's level, so it is highly possible that you may deal with the same issue on a more trained horse too.

The real problem here is that you need experience, and a mentor of sorts to learn from, and fallback to. Knowledge can help, so read, read and read about horse behavior, different methods of ground handling, how to make corrections etc. Then, talk to your mentor about it and learn how to put those theories into practice.

So the question is who can be your mentor? If it is feasible, the best mentor would be an instructor or trainer because of their knowledge level. However, if that is not feasible, then there are other people to consider. The next place I would look at is barns (boarding, lesson, volunteer-therapeutic ) in your area that may be in need of barn help. You can form a relationship with the owner/ instructor of that barn and ask them questions, as well as obtaining some practical experience in the process. Some barns may also offer a lesson in exchange for barn work, so that may also be an option. Another possible mentor may be your uncle. I am putting him last here, because I do not know his level of experience with horses, but you do say that your horse works well for him.
 

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Agree with above. And also, by experiencing and handling other horses as a stable hand you would gain confidance, which horses can instantly detect.

When I first got my 16.2 hand Saddlebred I was nervous of him and he only knew me as the carrot lady. He did not respect, crowded and overwalked me or would balk and refuse to go past the path to the turnout with his buddies. The barn owner/trainer taught me how to handle him and now he leads respectfully, is obedient, respects my space and is a joy to ride.
 

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pretty sure one of the most (if not the most) important part is respect, and I dont think she has any respect for me anymore.
In all honesty, the 'catch cry' of 'respect' makes me grind my teeth. In the vast majority of cases, it seems 'respect' is just synonymous for a horse being 'obedient' and submitting to a person. 'Get his respect' just means get his obedience. 'The horse doesn't respect you' just means he's not obedient to everything you ask - so it's a bit of a 'der' sort of comment that's just not helpful. Synonymous with a horse fearing consequences... It doesn't include aspects that I personally understand as 'respect', such as that it takes good understanding, between horse & human, that it is *earned* and cannot be forced. That it doesn't include fear. That it's a 2 way street - you need to respect the horse, show you're considerate & trustworthy, in order to start earning respect from them.

So, I'd suggest you forget about 'respect'(for now at least) and work out how you can get her doing what you're asking, and with better understanding, hopefully you'll develop a stronger relationship with her & eventually develop some respect for eachother too.

I used to lunge her "okay", for someone clueless on what I was doing, she listened and had some sort of respect for me. But then she started turning and walking in, toward me
Horses learn to do what works & quit doing what doesn't work. I sus she had been taught to lunge prior to you, and so she did what she was trained to do to start with, but soon learned you weren't going to make her, probably also that you weren't ensuring her Right behaviour worked for her, perhaps your timing was out, you weren't clear enough, whatever. So, she tried something out(turning in) and found that worked.

I'd also ask, what are you trying to achieve in lunging her? Why are you doing it?

Do you have a trainer or experienced friend handy, who can come & instruct you firsthand?

she wont even try to move. I've tried everything, like backing up or going foward, I've tried turning her and nothing has made her move not even an inch. It gets to the point where she's just standing there resting and theres nothing I can do because nothing will make her move. On the other hand, my uncle, the only horse person in my family, is able to ride her perfectly fine.
You NEED that trainer/instructor! Can your uncle not help you? I'd suggest someone lead the horse while you ride to start with, so they can back up your cues from the ground.

Some people have told me things like "oh, get spurs"
Agree it's a silly idea. Unless maybe you want some practice riding a bronc!

I just needed a horse that I'd learn from, and she needs someone that she'd learn from. It breaks my heart because I love her, a lot. I could be incredibly sad or upset and just being near her would totally change my mood. I love her to bits. I feel like if she really found the person perfect for her, she'd be an incredible horse to care for and ride. Last time I spoke with my family about selling her, no one agreed, so I don't think they'll listen now. I can't bring up anything about selling her because I'll most proba just get guilt tripped. I feel so bad for her, and I feel frustrated and clueless, I really don't know what to do.
Um.... families, huh?? Agree, sounds like best option would be to trade her for an experienced horse & find her an experienced home. And there should be absolutely no guilt involved in doing that - it's because you want the best for her, not just yourself, after all. Does your uncle have enough horse sense that you can talk to him about this, get him to 'go in to bat for you'? Or is he unreasonable about it too? And I'm guessing they're also not open to getting a trainer in either? If so, perhaps you can ask him to put some more training onto her for you, so you can ride her? Or perhaps you can 'loan' her to someone for a bit??
 

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I haven't read all replies. Hope I'm not repeating someone.


Could your uncle help you? I mean, if he can get this horse moving, perhaps he can show you what you need to do.


If I could watch you lunging your horse, I might be able to see exactly why she just comes in on you, invading your space. I am going to guess that you may be in some way allowing and even encouraging this by your body language.


Something happens that she enterprets as 'it's ok for me to stop', and when she does, and she comes toward you, YOU move away from her, which makes her come more toward you.

Perhaps you are moving back or sideways in an attempt to reach her hindquarters, in order to put some pressure there with a lunge whip? That's what they tell you to do.



But, if the horse is circling around to face you, and you try to move sideways to get access to the hind quarters, or the so-called 'drive line' (at about the girth area), then the horse has only to keep facing you, or come in closer to you, to make it so that you cannot access her hind quarter . The horse ends up lunging YOU!


This is a very common problem with beginners in lunging. you have to learn how to move the horse away from you, and in particular, to move the face and shoulders away from you, so that the horse steps its front end away and back out onto the circle. THEN you can ask for forward movement.


If you are interested, I can explain how to do that.
 

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Hey! Thanks to everyone so much for the replies and advice! I decided not to give up yet and restarted again with groundwork and it's been going great. I left everything I used to do, and with patience and working with her consistently, I've managed to get great results! I realized I needed to stop expecting her to just understand what I wanted. I started small, asking her to move a bit, even if it was just a step foward, I praised her & released pressure. I would also stop her whenever she tried to come in and turn into me by shaking the rope lightly (like when you ask them to back up by shaking the rope) and re-directed her whenever she tried to go too far or kept going in a circle but went too into the middle. It's been 3 days now and she's been doing great. And like one of the replies said, I'll skip riding for now and just do groundwork with her.

Also:
I'm a minor, so I can't really do much about selling her.
I've been taking lessons for a while, though I'm still a beginner. I am looking for ways to earn money so I could pay for more lessons.

I have been reading the replies, and I'll be responding to them one by one asap when possible!
 

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^Great! Sounds like you have a good idea of how to proceed & progress. Keep us posted.

When you say you have lessons, is it with her or another horse? While lessons on a well trained horse is a great help too, perhaps if not with her, you can arrange every second or third lesson to be so, for your instructor to give tips on what's good bad or otherwise between you both. Or vice versa, if lessons only with her, you would benefit by getting a feel for how a well trained horse should respond.
 

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Hey! Thanks to everyone so much for the replies and advice! I decided not to give up yet and restarted again with groundwork and it's been going great. I left everything I used to do, and with patience and working with her consistently, I've managed to get great results! I realized I needed to stop expecting her to just understand what I wanted. I started small, asking her to move a bit, even if it was just a step foward, I praised her & released pressure. I would also stop her whenever she tried to come in and turn into me by shaking the rope lightly (like when you ask them to back up by shaking the rope) and re-directed her whenever she tried to go too far or kept going in a circle but went too into the middle. It's been 3 days now and she's been doing great. And like one of the replies said, I'll skip riding for now and just do groundwork with her.

Also:
I'm a minor, so I can't really do much about selling her.
I've been taking lessons for a while, though I'm still a beginner. I am looking for ways to earn money so I could pay for more lessons.

I have been reading the replies, and I'll be responding to them one by one asap when possible!
Just a suggestion but, My grand daughter takes lessons where she keeps her horse and for extra lessons she made a deal to feed and clean stalls. You might approach the BO or your instructor and ask about a work for lessons deal.
 
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