I'm sorry that happened to you, but why are your keeping him a stud? He'd be much easier to work with and happier as a gelding.
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This untrained horse is going to hurt or kill someone. I would suggest you get a halter on him any way you can (chute, small pen, roping, ???) and have him castrated. He needs to be taught manners and boundaries, not made 'friends' out of ASAP.

And yes! Get a new chore person. You do not need someone around that teases and aggravates your horse.

 

MOST of us would smack a horse hard for biting. If my stallion offered to bite, there would be a serious CTJ moment. That said, get the horse roped or whatever works, and get him gelded ASAP. Before you get done tiptoeing around him, he WILL seriously hurt someone. His PROBLEM is that no one has bothered to teach him manners.

 

Hopefully this young stallion is not out with mares. I vote with everyone else, geld him first. Do not "baby" him because he's been "abused"....you'll just create a monster.

 

Babying him is just going to get someone killed. He needs castrated and a CTJ moment ASAP. While I do not condone what your farm hand did, I will say that if I was around your stud and he tried to bite me I would give him a nice solid smack or two around the muzzle.

The working smacking him, grabbing at him is not the cause of your problems now. Your problems now are that an ungelded horse has been allowed to think that this behavior is okay, you SHOULD be able to walk into his space, grab at him, paw at his nose and do whatever without him attempting to bite at you. Yet again not condoning what the farm hand did, but that is not the root of your problems and in believing so you will set the horse up to either hurt or kill someone.

 

They already have. Biting is normal to a stallion. It stimulates mares when in heat, it helps fend off competitors. The man doing chores wasn't afraid of the horses and gave them a good smack if they failed to respect his space. The horses may not be nervous at feeding time but milling around and keeping their respectful distance. A horse rarely becomes head shy from a smack on the jaw. Your mare may be picking up on your lack of leadership and playing it for what it's worth to her. If you want to keep a stallion, you need to demand impeccable manners from him ie he doesn't move a foot until told to, doesn't eat until give permission. He's not allowed to make one decision when around people. If you're not capable of doing this, he needs to be sold or gelded. If you don't, he will be completely out of control when the spring heat rolls around. He'll see you and your husband as competitors looking to take his mares away. BTW, there was no bond as it takes respect to have a bond and this horse respects no one.

 

Point of the story, if your horse changes its behavior drastically, check who has access to your horses....:shock:

I think others have conveyed their thoughts about the stallions' behavior so I will not venture there.

But to respond to your above point...many (many!) years ago at one farm i worked at, a coworker and I were responsible for walking 8 horses (2 to 4 at a time) down to a large pasture for the day and bringing them in at the end of the day.
The coworker had recently started a habit of shooing off the horses the moment she removed the halters. If said horse did not move off quick enough the coworker would slap them hard with the lead rope. This was a new thing because she was having a hard time (somewhere else in her life) and it made her feel better to take her aggression out this way. The faster the horses ran off the more she would laugh about it.

To me this was bad for quite a few reasons- it encouraged the horse to tear off the minute they thought thy were free of the halter, it created a dangerous situation for the human who was trying to get the halters on/off at the gate, and three... that in tearing off like like a horse could easily kick out- hitting the human.
When I mentioned my concerns about it to the BO, it fell on deaf ears. In her mind the horse still behaved very well at the barn. And they did, aside from getting ancy and agitated when being walked to the pasture, so she thought I was just trying to create trouble and said as much.

Not long after that was a day where the BO had to manage things herself because of hired help off days and the remaining one called in sick.
Yep, she got hurt dealing with the horses at the gate and had to be taken to the hospital. You can guess why.
It never occurred to her to be more aware of how barn hands could affect the behavior of her horses because the last time she had to turn them out herself, all were well behaved.

Moral is (aside from the stallion behavior) that some times another human's behavior can affect a horse's actions.
Looking at the entire environment for clues is not a bad idea if a person thinks something is off.

And, as a new member, that might have been more of the purpose in OP relaying their story.
...just saying...

 

I recently bought over Sebastain from the people where I am keeping my mare Socks. They wanted to get rid of him as he was "dangerous". He kept nipping and biting at everybody

Your first 2 sentences pretty much sum up the situation. What you have on your hands is a time bomb, waiting to go off. And when it does, the potential for great harm, injury or even death to you or your husband is real.

Stallions do NOT understand " love and understanding " they act on instinct and hormones....period. You need to get this guy gelded ASAP. It will be a blessing for him, and you. So call your Vet, and do it.

6 months from now, you will realize the wisdom of having him gelded, and only then will you have the opportunity to work, train and give him a chance to have a productive life.
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Uh...poor horse??? He tried to bite the guy and the response is poor horse??

I'm sorry you're having trouble. Step one is geld him. That IS a solution and something that should happen anyways. This has nothing to do with his biting. At the same time is has everything because he will probably get better.

Can't help but wonder how the trainer had it coming. Sounds like the trainer was spot on.

No wonder the horse bites if no one disciplines him.... Who do you think was hurt more. The guy who got lunged at and bitten by a stallion or the stallion who got the horse equivalent of a sharp slap from a human?

Now if this is a widespead behavior and the other horses are responding negatively then yes, you do need a new worker.

More importantly. Your dangerous horse needs an attitude adjustment and to be handled properly.

 

One of the places I worked at had a stallion attack an employee. She was talking on her cellphone while walking him out to the pasture. The horse viciously attacked her and ripped her face apart. Broke a few ribs.

My neighbor has a stallion. She can't even ride him anywhere, as she lives on a dead end street and has to pass my house and my mares. She can't control him.

It is so much easier to deal with a gelding! My neighbor s stallion was a wonderful two year old. Once he hit three he became uncontrollable. Why put yourself at risk?

Call your vet. They may be able to mix a sedative in his feed so you can have him gelded.

 

I would say that the person feeding the horse has more understanding of horses than either you or your husband.

I do know if someone asked me to feed their horse that is known to be dangerous, then I would certainly want to show that horse that I owned the air he breathed.

Having someone who was afraid going to feed him is a sure fire way of having them seriously hurt.

I go along with every other answer, get him gelded as soon as possible.

Once he is gelded he will be less frustrated however there will still be serious respect issues and these are not turned around by 'love'

The horse needs to learn manners with firm fair handling. He has to learn that biting is not an option, that humans, although smaller and weaker, have the power to demand respect every time they interact with him.
Unless you and your husband are prepared and experienced enough to give tough love then this horse will become more and more dangerous and more and more miserable.

 

Agree with the others, get this horse gelded ASAP. Stallions are incredibly dangerous, especially for the inexperienced owner and there is absolutely no reason to keep him a stud. Even the most sweet and gentle seeming stallion can and will turn into a vicious, extremely dangerous monster thanks to the hormones raging in his body and the breeding imperative. People across the country, including experienced breeders are maimed and sometimes killed by stallions and I've known several cases of stallions breaking through fences and killing other horses. Stallions lead a very lonely, isolated life since they cannot be safely turned out with a herd.

Rethink what this trainer and this worker did-they did what most experienced horse owners do and they were not wrong. Friendship is the last thing your husband needs to develop with this horse-absolute respect and manners is and it needs to be accomplished now, when the horse is young. Get him gelded and re-enlist the help of this trainer - if this horse is not corrected soon, I'm sorry to say he will ruined, sold because he is still dangerous and then be a candidate for the slaughter pen. Young horses in particular deserve an early start of firm, correct, humane training as it will effect what kind of life they lead in the future.

 

Disney is fiction as is the Black Stallion and Flicka.. Fury and Mr. Ed. Horses are LIVESTOCK. You can enjoy horses, train horses and ride horses.. but you do NOT bond with a horse (like you do a dog). They are large livestock animals who are more interested in their herd than they are in YOU. A rough start in life (weaning at 5 months is normal as would be separating an only colt that has not been gelded) is no excuse for today's behavior.

Trainers that are worth their salt will tell you that they don't CARE about the horse's previous experiences. They train what is in front of them.

Horses are not pets and if they are treated LIKE pets they become very dangerous 1200 pound creatures that can and will kick and bite the people who care for them and, yes, kill them.

If you continue on this "poor horsey just needs some luvin'" path you are or someone else will get hurt, and badly.

Stallions have two things on their mind. Breeding mares and traveling to find mares to breed. That is it.

Tractability in a Stallion can be trained by a good professional (have you a few thousand dollars for a trainer?) and kept up by a clear handler. Anything less than that needs to be a gelding... and even as a gelding this horse will be a hand full.

If you and your husband want to "bond" to something I recommend a good dog.

 

No word from OP. We seem to have lambasted her pretty hard. I hope she returns with the realization our intention was to keep her and hubby from serious harm.

 

Hey guys, thanks for all the advise but as I stated above Seb has never been handled or haltered. It is easy to say have him gelded but how do we do that if we cannot even touch him? Today we started introducing a halter. But he shies away completely. We actually noticed his cheek split where the worker hit him. Can't even get close to clean out the wound. He is in a field with my pregnant mare. As soon as she goes to the foaling area he will go in with the young calves. But yeah, the vet said we must first get him workable before he can come geld Seb as we have to clean the wound every day. But we have no sure indication of Sebs age. We guess around year and a half to two years.

 

Sedation gun? Tranquil medication directly in the food? It's not rocket since, most equines vet knows how to handle this situation.
Stop making excuses and get the horse gelded. You cant handle him, he can kill you, and you are certainly never going to breed such a horse.
I understand you have a sweat spot for this horse, but do him a favour and give him a fair chance by gelding him.'

 

Look at it from another way
No experienced horse person goes diving into a group of horses unannounced - in that split second they have no clue if its a human another horse or a predator.
They are horses therefore they react like horses - one minute we want them to be natural and the next we suddenly expect them to have the ability to think like a human?
The horse behaved like a horse and then got punished for it - I have a friend with no spleen because she walked up behind a very quiet friendly mare unannounced and got kicked - did she blame the mare and beat it up? No. She blamed herself for being such an idiot
Go back to the horse - its got a history of being treated unfairly - if anyone truly believes its going to forget that in a few weeks then they haven't been around many horses
Yes the horse needs to be handled firmly and fairly now and it should be gelded but you keep hitting on a defensive horse for no reason or with no control and it just gets worse

 

And on your point of the worker being experienced, um not to be funny, he knows nothing about horses, he just feeds the ducks and geese and chickens on the farm. The owners of the property just got him to feed the horses as well as the chicken coop is next to the horses camp.

 

I have yet to see a horse have a cut cheek from a hit from a human and would say that if a horse was hit hard enough to do so his reaction would be to turn and kick rather than attack with teeth.

I have dealt with more than my fair share of obnoxious colts bred for flat racing so gelding was not an option for most. As said colts use their teeth a lot and although for most it was 'just a game' some were what I would class as biters. I punished the worse with a hard punch that has one occasion broken two bones in my hand and it certainly never cut the horse.
It could be that he was pestering your mare and she booted him?

I would build a secure pen area, no bigger than 12' x 12' have him get use to going in there for some feed, once he is use to that get the vet out and give him some tablet form of dope and shove it in some feed, once he is staggering you should be able to get a halter on him.

If you built a chute from the pen back to the field so he gets use to walking out through that so when the day comes you can enclose him in the chute but this needs to be very solid and strong,

 

Or the 'help' hit him with something he had in his hand?
If the person is inexperienced and therefore nervous of the horses he's quite likely to take some 'weapon' in with him
A defensive stallion is just as likely to attack with its teeth as to turn around and kick if the threat is in front of him.
The easiest way to sedate a horse like this is with a dart gun - if they can't separate him from the mare or any other horses he's in with then its likely not going to be easy to get anything in a feed that the others won't also get too.

 

The OP said he was slapped. He wasn't said to be carrying a 'weapon'

As for the other horse getting the feed that is why I said they need to build something to contain him.

 

It is possible to sedate him for gelding. Either you can mix the sedative with his feed or have him darted with a tranquilizer gun.

I know my vet carries a tranquilizer gun. I suggest getting it done even if you can't handle him. If for some reason he does develop complications from gelding, the vet can give you dormosedan gel to mix in his feed to sedate him if the area needs tending.

It certainly isn't ideal, but it is far better than you or your husband getting hurt.

You may want to get some dormosedan gel to keep on hand. I would imagine he needs his feet done by the farrier. When was his hooves trimmed last? If he doesn't get his feet trimmed, it could cripple him.

I think you need to find a trainer to work with him. A good trainer won't abuse him, but he might need to get slapped once or twice for biting. Biting is an act of aggression. Kicking is more often fear based. This horse thinks he is the herd stallion and you are under him. When you (or the person who feeds) does not do what he wants, he escalates his behavior to biting and kicking.

I knew someone who felt like you do. Her horse kicked her husband in the head and he had to get 60 stitches. There is a difference between discipline and abuse. If my horse bit me, I would go after him and he needs to think his life is over in ten seconds. After that you go right back to what you were doing before. There should be no anger involved. No prolonged abuse.

Watch how horses act in the field. When they fight there is about ten seconds before it is over. During that time the aggressor bites or kicks and the subordinates flee. Your horse is acting as the aggressor. If you don't flee he will attack you... this is why you need a trainer. A trainer can use the ten seconds to set himself up as leader.

Do you have a roundpen to work this horse in? How much experience do you have with horses?

I don't agree with beating horses, but some sort of discipline is needed. Before this horse hurts someone.

Horses can tell who is weaker. He might not challenge a trainer at all! My mom is not a strong willed person and horses pick up on that and try to push their limits. It isn't anything terrible, but if they can drag her to the nearest pile of grass, they will!

Horses are very smart at reading our intentions. He is testing his limits to see what he can get away with. In his mind, he is treating you like another horse. As you are below him, you better drop his feed fast! As that is his feed and how dare you stand next to his feed! Since you didn't move fast enough, now he is going to bite you. You are disrespecting him as you didn't move away fast enough!

The man I knew who was kicked in the face, was carrying hay, when he was attacked. The horse warned him, and he didn't react fast enough!

I hope you see what I am getting at. Not all horses are sweet and loveable. I have a very sweet mare who loves people and has a good attitude. I'm working with a horse that is her opposite. She sees me, pins her ears, doesn't want to be caught, gives me an attitude about being ridden. It makes me appreciate my mare who loves to go riding!

I think gelding will improve his attitude. Right now he is probably in the stage where stallions start fighting for mares. He is a hormonal mess full of aggression and unfulfilled desires!

 

Really not trying to gang up on you OP, just got really confused as to how there could be an open wound on the horse's cheek. Did the man hit him with an object or his hand? Either way while I still don't condone what he did that in no way shape or form excuses the horse. Honestly if the horse is as bad as I'm imagining I would hope that having a few small nicks on him from me would make him think twice.

Another question: Do you have ANY experience with training and handling stallions? They're a whole different ball game from 'regular' horses. They require a firmer, more experienced hand.
I really think you need to get a professional trainer to come out immediately. As for the vet not gelding him that is very odd. Around these parts when we have a dangerous animal we tranquilize them, geld them and do then chase them in a field to keep them moving so the wound doesn't clot. This is incredibly dangerous situation. I've seen a dozen colts that this has happened with and trust me they are barely handled and come out none the worse for it.

Let me put it to you this way. You have a decision to make. Either you will geld him, do what's right by him and get a professional to help you or you will not geld him, take pity on him and he WILL EVENTUALLY hurt someone. No matter how sweet he was as a baby, no matter how sweet he can be, he's a hormonal ticking time bomb. Once your mare goes into foal heat, that will be that and the problem will escalate until a point of no return.

Get a trainer, geld him, make him safe for you and your husband and provide him a safe, loving home. OR: continue on until he hurts or kills someone and is sent to the glue factory (for not everyone thinks rationally when this happens).

 

It'd this horse doesn't get what it needs soon, you are going to have to euthanize him. Unfortunately that is where he is heading. I'm not saying that to be mean,I have seen it happen and its a horrible thing. You could get seriously injured or killed by this horse. It's past does not matter. The man feeding slapping the horse does not matter at this point.

Find a vet that will drug him or a cowboy that can rope him so that he can be separated from the other horse and sedated. Ask your vet or farrier if they know anyone that can rope.

Most of all, good luck. I hope things work out ok and no one gets hurt.
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Sorry, to add-

Agree, you will end up having to put him down if this continues.

To expand on the discipline vs abuse if that's what you're afraid of.. Discipline is fair. It's done in a proper way to address the action prompting it. Discipline is NECESSARY. Discipline with horses is often physical. Particularly when the horse is doing dangerous things. As I said before...which do you think hurt more? A dangerous and aggressive behavior from 1000lbs of hormones MUST be dealt with immediately and properly. I don't feel like this is clicking for you yet.. :/

A good point was made that it's quite likely the behavior of the other horses is NOT from abuse. I've seen many "abused" horses that either learned to act like that or were just responsive that way. Doesn't mean anything.

 

Thank you once again for the advise. It is possible the worker had something in his hand. My husband saw it happen from a distance and I myself was not there. Seb has never had his hooves done, or had any of his shots, and we were the first to deworm him.

I have spoken to my husband and we have decided we want to move our horses to a friend on the farm next door. The owners does not accommodate us. They have two ponies for their kids. (The older pony is straight from hell). She instigates fights between the other horses. Plus we do not have a pen, ring or enclosure to work with the horses. This makes me feel quite uncomfortable having to work with my mare in the field with all the other horses and ponies.
So think we need to move the horses and then get Seb done. Do not think sedating him is going to work in a huge field with all the others milling around.