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This boy has been cantered in the same place and obviously raced toward home and now he only has one speed on that track, and nothing I try will slow him down. He's in a link snaffle and is a heavyweight cob. Would a flash noseband help? Thanks in advance!!
 

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Nah, unless you get to the mind first, you won't control the feet. First thing I'd do is to break down the end goal into smaller, more manageable steps and work on those. You can make "going fast" less appealing, and/or "going slow" more appealing, depending on your horse's "currency". Maybe start with a little stretch out so that cantering really isn't worth his while, and reward him for walking. Then move out a bit farther, let him go at his speed, over and over, and when he gets bored takes the trip slowly (because he anticipates just turning around all over again), give him a cookie. Call it a day once he's earned three cookies. Then move out farther...and so on.

I think that's much better than picking a fight or getting heavier equipment.
 

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At worst, if there just is no stopping him on his run home... let him take you there but make the destination less appealing once he gets where he thinks he's going. Work work work work work him there, keeping him his body moving and his mind working and don't let him stop and relax at his usual "I'm done" point. Instead, keep him moving fast in circles in that place he likes so much. When he's starting to get sick of the work, only let him walk to relax heading AWAY from the barn. If he starts to pull you back towards the barn, let him take you there but again make him WORK.

If a horse really REALLY wants to be somewhere, there's only so much as a rider that we can do. So in this case you may have more success treating the cause than the symptom.

Warwick Schiller has some great videos on fixing this. He calls it "destination addiction." Getting your horse to a place where he can think more neutrally about different locations will make him much easier to work with.

There are other videos demonstrating it in action, but this one kind of summarizes the idea behind it.
 

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no, a flash won't help.

make him walk. if he speeds up from a walk do a one rein stop. or make him work circles at a good brisk trot. as soon as he walks again reward him with praise and continue walking home. soon as he acts up again, one rein stop or circles. he'll realize the right thing (walking home) is easier than the wrong thing (going fast).
 

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At worst, if there just is no stopping him on his run home... let him take you there but make the destination less appealing once he gets where he thinks he's going. Work work work work work him there, keeping him his body moving and his mind working and don't let him stop and relax at his usual "I'm done" point. Instead, keep him moving fast in circles in that place he likes so much. When he's starting to get sick of the work, only let him walk to relax heading AWAY from the barn. If he starts to pull you back towards the barn, let him take you there but again make him WORK.

If a horse really REALLY wants to be somewhere, there's only so much as a rider that we can do. So in this case you may have more success treating the cause than the symptom.

Warwick Schiller has some great videos on fixing this. He calls it "destination addiction." Getting your horse to a place where he can think more neutrally about different locations will make him much easier to work with.

There are other videos demonstrating it in action, but this one kind of summarizes the idea behind it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwdOQUb5VA
Not only is that video very educational but it's hilarious to boot! I was :rofl:ing through the whole vid :lol:
 
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Warwick Schiller has some great videos on fixing this.
I always wondered how sustainable than method is. Do we now have to conclude each and every trail ride with a grueling workout, just so the horse won't rush? And if we don't, won't the lesson soon be forgotten? Isn't it much less hassle in the long run to work with positive reinforcement? I'm just thinking about me coming home from a "wholesome" trail ride. The last thing *I* need then is another half hour of work-out to reinforce the "no rushing". I am still ready to potentially reinforce a leisurely pace with a treat and praise en route.

As with most things in life, it's probably a well constructed combination of the two that works best. I can see how Schiller's approach gives initially results quickly, and then you can build on that with a less physical strategy.
 

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I always wondered how sustainable than method is. Do we now have to conclude each and every trail ride with a grueling workout, just so the horse won't rush? And if we don't, won't the lesson soon be forgotten? .
No you wont have to end every trail ride with a work out, because the lesson is learned....why would it be forgotten? They don't forget other things we teach them? Well not entirely...
 

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No you wont have to end every trail ride with a work out, because the lesson is learned....why would it be forgotten? They don't forget other things we teach them? Well not entirely...
Well, it's not exactly "forgetting", it's reteaching and reinforcing the old lesson that, "end of ride = monkey off my back". So you are back in the scenario that created the problem - why would it not recreate the problem?
 

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I always wondered how sustainable than method is. Do we now have to conclude each and every trail ride with a grueling workout, just so the horse won't rush? And if we don't, won't the lesson soon be forgotten? Isn't it much less hassle in the long run to work with positive reinforcement? I'm just thinking about me coming home from a "wholesome" trail ride. The last thing *I* need then is another half hour of work-out to reinforce the "no rushing". I am still ready to potentially reinforce a leisurely pace with a treat and praise en route.

As with most things in life, it's probably a well constructed combination of the two that works best. I can see how Schiller's approach gives initially results quickly, and then you can build on that with a less physical strategy.
Oh, for sure! I think there are never too many training tools in the toolkit, so long as they don't contradict each other. I think the method Schiller talks about is good for stubborn cases, or for a periodic reminder during a dedicated training session. Ultimately the point of it is to eliminate the need to keep doing it.

I definitely agree about the positive reinforcement. I think there's great value in dismounting and taking a nice break and feeding some treats are the far end of a trail ride before turning around and heading back. Gives the horse something to look forward to in the away-from-home direction.
 

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Well, it's not exactly "forgetting", it's reteaching and reinforcing the old lesson that, "end of ride = monkey off my back". So you are back in the scenario that created the problem - why would it not recreate the problem?
You are assuming a lot, and most of your posts seem to say that you believe horses do nothing with us riding that they enjoy.

The OP here hinted at the issue, it was a routine for this horse to gallop on this track, that is what he expects to do, same as being raced towards home, it is learned behaviour, that can be reprogrammed into something safer.
Horses develop habits, any track that you usually canter on, they will usually want to go, away from or toward home. Once they have learned that walking home takes longer, but gets the same reward, why should they revert? This is down to bad practice and bad training, we always walked the last mile or so home, it was considered bad form to bring a horse back to the yard breathing heavily or dripping in new sweat. So horses never learned to run home.
 
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Golly , I hate it when people do that to a horse; run him always in certain spots out on the trail, and always, for example, up that long hill toward home.
Do that a few times and the horse expects it, and the the next rider has to either got with the horse's program, or get busy doing something else.


Like @mmshiro said, I think a person could try a lot of things.

I might also stop and turn the rushing horse around and go the other direction for a bit. but, again, it takes TIME to change that bad habit, (that's why I get som angry at the person/s who put that bad habit in there in the first place).

You would turn him around and go the other direction every single time he pushed through your rein that said 'walk!". every time. make him walk the opposite direction for a bit, then turn around, and if he then immediately rushes off, turn back again. He will soon learn that trot unasked for = turn around.

You would have to commit to a total walking ride for several times, though.

Or, canter him some, but only going away from home, then implement the above strategy going home.
 

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@mmshiro This is precisely the method that I use to correct a horse that rushes to any particular spot. Trying to run to the trailer after a trail ride? Sure, go for it, we'll do rollbacks at the trailer when we get there. Want to run back to the barn? Okay fine, let's do that, but when we get to the barn we'll so rollbacks and serpentines at maximum warp. In my experience, even the most stubborn horses will throw in the towel after 2 or 3 days of that. If you are effective in your correction, the horse will remember the correction. Of course if you're not effective, yeah, you'll have to do it over and over and over again. That's a dead giveaway that you're not being effective.

When I correct the horse at the place he wants to rush back to, I will do rollbacks the first time for about 10 minutes. Then we'll ride away from the barn/trailer/whatever and rest. When he's got his air back we'll go back to the place he wants to be. If he rushes, I'll let him, but then we're going to do rollbacks for 15 minutes. Every time I have to do rollbacks, the time is increased by 5 minutes. I've yet to have a single horse rush back a fourth time. They might speed walk, but they don't dare break into a trot, and that's fine progress for that day. The next day, we'll do it again, only by the end of that ride the horse is walking back to the barn like he's going to his own funeral. Sometimes, on a horse that has had that habit for a long while, I'll do it a third day, but usually two is enough. They remember, and they want no part of rushing back to the barn after that.

Case in point: Dreams spent two rides trying to rush back to the trailer after trail rides last year (back to back days). Both times I let him rush, and we did rollbacks around the truck and trailer until he was ready to walk back. Day one he powerwalked back ... day two he walked normally ... day three he walked back to the trailer at a snail's pace, taking every opportunity to try to turn around and head back out. When we got back to the trailer on day 3, I unsaddled him and let him rest for a while, then loaded him, gave him a treat and took him back to the barn. That was over a year ago and he hasn't tried it again. He no longer walks at .000001 miles per hour back to the trailer, but does walk slower on the way back than he does on the way out. Trust me, he remembers those rollbacks, which means that they were an effective tool to discourage him from rushing back.

-- Kai
 

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You are assuming a lot, and most of your posts seem to say that you believe (all?) horses do nothing with us riding that they enjoy.
(Emphasis mine.)

To a degree, but...considering the posts that I have replied to...I do firmly believe that horses of riders who do not face behavioral issues probably do have a jolly good time being ridden... You won't see me going after riders who are happy with their horses telling them that their horse is probably miserable deep inside.

My philosophy is that horses seek release from pressure, rather than making sneaky attempts to get out of work. The more desperate they get trying to find release, the more the owner observes a misbehaving horse. Of course that doesn't necessarily hold the other way: A misbehaving horse may not be seeking to release pressure; it may try to put pressure on you, for example, or just engage in a habitual behavior (it has developed while trying to get release from pressure).

In any case, content horses act contently. Since the human is the main factor for having discontent arise in a horse, it stands to reason that the human should make the first attempt at training themselves rather than blaming the "stupid horse" (to exaggerate a bit).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you all great advice. I want to try just making him walk the track home, that was the plan. I tried to do a one rein stop and I literally wasn't effecting him he's so strong. I physically could not turn him, or slow him down. It was like he had no idea
I was on his back. I'm small and he's heavyweight, 15hh but a powerhouse. I'm experienced but i hate feeling out of control
 

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One rein stops are not magic. They are a trained response. Other options include a Pulley Rein Stop, or using some other technique. If you stop by applying steady pressure, or steady pressure on one side, then consider bumping. Hard.

And if you cannot turn the horse, then you need time in the arena and working on "Turn means turn". For example, if he won't turn with a pull on one rein, then be prepared to hit the shoulder. Horses don't always follow their noses, but they must follow their shoulders.

The problem is that some techniques are easier to see than to explain. Here is one on a Pulley Rein:


If you genuinely cannot stop or turn the horse, get a different horse.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
In the school he'll turn with just my legs! No reins required. He's clever and stubborn. I'll get it sorted. Thanks for all the advice folk
 

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I don't mean to be a downer but in this situation, if the horse was allowed to run home in this particular area by their owner, I don't know if there is much you can do... They will probably find it very unfair of you to force them not to participate in what they've been able to for who knows how long, and could react with bucking/rearing/head tossing/etc. Personally I don't think it's worth it to train this out of them especially if the rider who created this habit still engages in it.

Solutions? I think all I can advise is to go along with it, or try and avoid that section of the trail if you can. Or else, if you really want to have a fight with them, you're going to have to make circles the entire stretch of their gallop track until the end and this is going to take a very long time to get from A to B.
 

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I've used the 'working them hard at home when they rush back' - its a training trick that's as old as the hills and people were doing it when Warwick wasn't even a 'twinkle in his father's eye'.
It will work with some horses but with others it fails completely because they don't care that they're working hard at home - they're just happy that they're at home. It only works with horses that don't want to work and you also run the risk of the horse starting a whole new aversion trick of napping and rearing every time you try to get it into your manège or paddock or wherever else you're doing that 'hard work' routine when it gets back to the yard.


A 1 rein stop won't work on a stocky thick necked cob. If it doesn't want to oblige it'll just lock its neck and ignore your efforts to shift its rear end even if it will do it at home like clockwork. Its no different to the horse that will stop on a dime at the lightest touch at home but runs off with you on the trails.


A flash noseband won't help - a kineton noseband will give you twice the effect as it works by putting pressure on the nose as well as the mouth when you put your weight on the bit
Cobs that pull can be easier to stop in a gag type bit - I'd try a Cheltenham Gag, maybe with a Waterford mouthpiece. If you can break the habit out on the tracks by being able to stop him running off in the first place its a far more effective way to do it.
 

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Good post by jaydee, I agree it's a training issue, but it's also important the OP has control riding so DO think a stronger bit is appropriate. Having the OP stuck like a fly on the back of a horse that is effectively bolting is not safe, and working him when they get home isn't going to fix the problem. Oh, it's a good strategy, but having absolutely no control until that point is not.

Agree with stopping him before it starts for sure, don't LET him get away with you. I will stop a horse if they get strong. Or maybe back them up. Or turn around and "head back out" (away from the barn). Heck in this situation as it's just the one spot and something he's been taught (vs actually barn sour) maybe just get off and handwalk him. Or walk him then stop and take a break. Just change it up so he stops thinking he should be running.
 
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