[egrogan]

Sorry for a long post...

Most of my horse experience has been taught in an arena. I have had very little opportunity in my life to get outside the arena, wander trails, get out in big open spaces, etc. I am now in a position where I have that opportunity-however, I am finding my instincts/reactions that I thought were correct are not adequate in a new environment. My horse has primarily been ridden and handled in arenas and the barn, and similarly, I'm finding that she is not nearly as responsive to me outside of these familiar surroundings.

Here's what happened this weekend- we recently received permission from the land owner next to where I board to ride on his sugaring trails. I decided to start by taking my horse to walk the trails with me on the ground, using a halter and lead (regular leather halter). My plan was to use this as a chance to expose her to the unfamiliar setting on the ground first before riding out on the trail. Going away from the barn went great- we had to walk the length of a 2ish acre pasture where all her "friends" were out grazing, and she walked away from them just fine- obedient, calm, etc. We entered the wooded trail, and while she was alert and a little more "up" than typically, she listened well, led right at my shoulder, walked up to a stream and then walked in, played with the water curiously, nibbled some grass (when allowed), etc. All in all, well behaved and doing what was asked. I was feeling like this outing was going to be a huge success!

My problem came when another person from the barn rode out through the trail too. Looking back, my mistake was not being prepared for someone to be riding out there. THe wooded trail was fairly narrow- only wide enough for a horse and person on the ground, not really wide enough that two people could ride side-by-side. So, as I saw the rider approaching, I walked with my mare to a clearing so there would be room for the rider to pass us. That's when things (predictably?) went bad. The rider passed us, turned, and headed back to the barn.

My previously obedient horse became pushy and anxious. I tried backing her, and she responded by barging into me and moving forward, almost bolting after the other horse. I tried yielding her hindquarters, but this just sent her into a frantic spin around and around me. I managed to move back into the cleared area and did the best I could to use my 6-foot lead rope to "lunge" her around me and keep her moving until I decided she could stop, but it didn't really calm her down and get her listening. I kept working like this out in the woods for maybe 10-15 minutes, and she was a little more respectful, but not great. On the walk back out of the woods, she would not lead at my shoulder, and was essentially trotting ahead and barging into me with her shoulder, pushing me off the trail. When we walked past the field with the rest of the herd (which she walked passed no problem as we went away from the barn), she became frantic again (the whole herd came cantering up to the fence). I again tried backing/yielding hindquarters, but again had a problem with a very narrow trail along an electric fenceline. I got her listening to me a bit, but not great.

Would love to hear what others would have done differently. Next time, I will plan ahead to do this kind of work without other horses around (I need to work on basic obedience with just me before other horses are in the mix). But, I felt really limited in my options given I was on a narrow forest trail without a lot of room to maneuver. I would love to hear how others would approach it.

 

[usandpets]

What breed is your horse? What is her temperament like? Is she a hot head and very energetic or more on the lazy side?
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[Foxhunter]

You did well to hang on by the sound of things!

First I would not have taken her out on a flat halter and rope. I would certainly had a long rope on her and probably a control halter.
It doesn't sound like there was a lot more you could have done.

When horses mess around and know better then I am not avery nice person. I would have really got after her, arm waving in her face and if necessary a whack across her nose with the end of the rope. If she was still being ansty then chances are I would have tied her high to a tree and left her there for a couple of hours.

 

[egrogan]

What breed is your horse? What is her temperament like? Is she a hot head and very energetic or more on the lazy side?
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She's a Morgan mare. She's 20 years old but still has "get up and go" and can be a fun, forward ride in the arena. She's not lazy but she's not hot headed. Generally a nice horse to be around.

 

[egrogan]

First I would not have taken her out on a flat halter and rope. I would certainly had a long rope on her and probably a control halter.
It doesn't sound like there was a lot more you could have done.
.

Yep, I thought about this too. I've actually never had a rope halter on her, but was thinking I might appreciate having a little extra control.

I did end up grabbing a pine stick to use as a makeshift crop and gave her a couple of whacks across the chest when she wanted to run over me. That backed her off some and seemed to get her mind working again!

 

[tinyliny]

yep. rope halter and longer lead.

don't spend too much time spinning her around you in the clearing. if you want to do lunge work for attention and respect, and there is room, get her changing directions frequently.

as soon as she is at all capable of following you, walk forward. give her something to follow, which will make her feel better. but, you should have the skill well developed of backing her up off of you WHILE leading, while you are facing forward, too. in fact, you should spend some time working on your leading skills all around. work on getting her to lead well by having her stay behind you and off to the side. never let her pass your leading hand.

check out Julie Goodnight's videos on leading.

wear shoes that will protect your feet well. carry a dressage whip.

you can even bring along a few treats so that once your mare is calm and following you, you can put one on the ground out in front of her, direct her toward it, and by her putting her head down, it helps to induce calming.

 

[horseluvr2524]

You did well to put an ok ending on something that could have been disastrous. My mare used to be I couldn't get her 20 feet from the property without a blowing up fit. What changed it was a lot of ground work, earning and establishing respect in my new position as lead mare. Then one day, I could just take her out. It happened seemingly out of nowhere. Anytime she got nervous I could just talk her down and walk on. This was on busy neighborhood streets with inconsiderate people.

Start your ground work at the barn. Do a refresher for both you and mare. Then continue ground work out in pastures, then trails, more leading ground work than lunge. I'm sure you will both come out of this fine =)

And yes, a rope halter is much more effective than a regular halter. Carrying a dressage whip is also good.

 

[usandpets]

You have to remember that since she has mostly, if not always, worked in the arena, outside is new and scary.

Horses do like routine and want to feel safe. If she has only been in the arena, that is what she is used to and where she feels comfortable. Horses are safe in numbers so she wants to be with other horses.

However, it isn't wrong to expose them new things. Horses don't think or reason like us. We know that nothing is going to happen but horses don't. You just have to take time to expand her safety zone and trust in you.

The reason I asked about her breed and temperament, making a hot headed horse to work more when they are nervous can fire them up more. Those you need to slow down to get them thinking again.
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[franknbeans]

Yes, you did great, but it could have been disastrous, especially since you were alone. I would recommend taking her out with someone or even borrowing a horse and ponying her until she is more comfortable. I also have (where there is room) used either the lunging, but frequent direction changes as suggested OR if I mounted and my horse is not paying attention-do tight figure 8's around trees, or spiral in and out again…..to keep their attention on YOU. That is the key. I also would start going on shorter walks AFTER your arena work-as her cool down. Good luck!

 

[FlyGap]

I agree with not letting it escalate into a tugging crazy horse war. Overall you did good, kudos!

Every time she surges home, drive her away from it. "Ok, you wanna go home, nope, ten more steps away, stop and chill. Then let's see if you act like a lady?" Get her thinking and her mind on you.

If she simply won't listen take her home and work her butt off. Then go back out. No change? Do it again. She'll get the picture.

I agree with Franknbeans, start out with it as a reward after hard work. Not taking her out fresh. A good walking buddy is great advice too, be careful!
Even the best horse can become dangerous in a new scary situation.

 

[Woodhaven]

You handled it quite well, she didn't get away from you. sometimes when I lead a horse somewhere and am not sure how the horse will behave under different circumstances, I put a regular lead on and also a chain either under the chin or over the nose. That way if the horse is behaving I can just use the lead rope but if something happens (like what did to you) I can switch to the chain and still have some control.
I often did this with young warmbloods when teaching them to lead, they were big babies as yearlings and quite full of themselves and I did not want them to ever learn they could get away from me. I wanted them to be well halter broke so took them all over the place but still wanted some control over them.
Do you have someone there who has a quiet well behaved horse that you could go out with for the first couple of rides just to help get your horse used to trail riding.
I just bought a nice mare and she has been trail ridden but never out by herself, so I have just started taking her out for some rides and I take a lunge rope with me (just in case). We've had 3 rides so far and no problems.

 

[Woodhaven]

After I finished my post , I got thinking what I would have done if I was riding and met you on the trail, leading your horse. I would have stopped and chatted with you and I would not have ridden off and left you with a horse that was so upset.
I'm sorry that this had to happen the first time you took her out. It would have been a great opportunity for her to have a positive experience if the rider had just stayed with you til she settled down. If it had been me I would have stayed with you and even gotten off and walked with you until you were ok by yourself or we arrived back at the barn.
I hope this doesn't discourage you to trying again. Trail riding is great.

 

[Cherie]

One of our number 1 rules here is:

NEVER do anything new with a fresh horse!!!!

This means that if you want to introduce anything new to any horse of any age, ride it hard and do the new thing AFTER that long, hard ride.

The other thing that would help you a lot would be to find a suitable place to tie her out as far from the barn and her 'comfort zone' as you can. You cannot tie her to someone else's trees, so find a place on your stable grounds that is OK with the owner. The farther away from the barn and her friends as you can find is going to be the best place. She may have to stand tied for several hours before she gets quiet and settles down. Don't mess with her at all when she is learning to be away from the barn. Just stay where you can keep one eye on her.

Tie her to something that is higher than her withers and somewhere that she cannot get hurt.

 

[Rideabighorse]

I am an experienced trail rider with a horse that I usually ride on the trail, but I rarely go out alone. I would strongly recommend riding out with some one else. Preferably with an experienced horse. It would make things a lot easier for your horse if he had a herd member with him that he felt he could trust.

 

[egrogan]

Wow, I just have to say thank you for all of the thoughtful, helpful posts here. You have given me great advice. I literally want to like each one of them since it seems like there is a useful nugget in everything that's been posted. Here's what I'm taking away:
1. Have appropriate equipment (rope halter, longer lead, dressage whip and oh, I'm adding gloves to my list too, I almost never do anything serious without gloves and I didn't have any with me- dumb).
2. Work my horse first, then go exploring
3. Bring someone with me

I do have a question though, regarding the recommendation to bring an experienced horse out with us. Things actually seemed to be going fine before another horse was out there- it was the introduction of another horse that seemed to "flip the switch." I get that it was probably being left behind by the other horse, but theoretically, it seems to me that that shouldn't be an excuse to act up. I suppose the idea is that going out with a "been there, done that" trail horse first allows us to eventually work up to being out there alone?

One other question/reaction- I think there was some suggestion about practicing leading in the arena. The thing about that is that she is a perfect angel- stays at the shoulder, will halt and walk on with or without a leadrope, lunges beautifully, will free lunge on a circle, etc. So it's hard to think about practicing leading in that environment since she just goes about her business there. I think one thing I could do is practice some of the leading exercises out of the arena, away from the barn, but not necessarily in the woods where the space is so confined. Does that seem useful?

 

[FlyGap]

Sounds like a good plan!
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[Dreamcatcher Arabians]

I do have a question though, regarding the recommendation to bring an experienced horse out with us. Things actually seemed to be going fine before another horse was out there- it was the introduction of another horse that seemed to "flip the switch." I get that it was probably being left behind by the other horse, but theoretically, it seems to me that that shouldn't be an excuse to act up. I suppose the idea is that going out with a "been there, done that" trail horse first allows us to eventually work up to being out there alone?

You've gotten some good advice here and it sounds like you did a pretty good job in a pretty tough situation.

Your horse was in your words, "up" when you took her out. The nerves started there. She was following the leader ok until another horse showed up that was heading back to her comfort zone and she kind of panicked at that point. LOTS of repetition will cure that and being ponied off another more experienced horse will help her in the beginning. I like to pony the horse alone first, and then have someone pony the horse with me on her next and then just start letting the distance get a little bigger between the horses each ride.

The other thing is the arena rider's nerves. Most arena riders get very heightened awareness outside of the arena and the horse feels the tenseness and is thinking, "If she's scared and she's the leader, what on earth do I do?" or something like that. Then you start to feed off of each other. So, if you can borrow an experienced trail horse that's really been there and done that, so you can ride and get your nerves under control it would help a lot.

The ground manners thing. This is where I learned to appreciate my Carrot Stick and rope halters. When she's trying to barge over you, letting her have it with your stick or a dressage whip while backing her up FAST will really help put an end to that. The minute she starts to go past you on the way back to the barn, she gets to go backwards as far and fast as you can go until she starts focusing on you and not the barn. You're going to be tired and disgusted before you're done and she'll be an emotional wreck until you firmly establish that YOU are in charge and set the pace and direction. The problem is, when they start getting all worked up and emotional, they can't learn and they have a very hard time listening or focusing. You're going to have to work her through that, so that you can get to the point where she doesn't feel the need to go to that place in her head. You're going to have to learn to read her really well, so you can stop the emotional flight before it gets started.

You mentioned that you worked her for 10-15 mins and still couldn't get her attention. I have worked a really emotional horse for 45 mins just to get her to look at me. Out on the trail you need to be really focused on what you want from her in order to communicate it and get through the flighty response. Figure out in your head what you will do when she starts to get silly. For instance, first I'll back her up and once she gives me one or 2 steps, I'll stop and praise her. Then I'll start over and ask for 5 steps. Once she's backing and not losing it, I'll ask her to move to the side, shoulder yield, both directions. Then I'll ask her to sidepass 3 steps. Then 5, then I'll back her 5 steps. Basically you're getting her to think about moving her feet rather than the barn and getting her focus back on you.

 

[franknbeans]

IMO, the issue you had with the other horse was that it appeared and DISAPPEARED, which made your horse anxious and want to go with it. If you go out with an experience horse you should be fine. When I take out someone inexperienced I keep checking in with them, and let them know that we go at their pace. If they want to go home, we do……always at a walk.

You could work with some (hate this word) bomb proofing in the arena too-that will accomplish a few things. You will learn better how she reacts in different situations, and will learn how to better keep/get her attention back on you. You can do this on the ground to start with, then work under saddle. It is good for both of you, and teaches you to have control of those feet, which is really important on the trail, especially in close quarters. It will also help teach her that stepping on you is NOT an option.

 

[egrogan]

DA, FranknBeans, thanks for the additional explanation on using another horse- makes sense.

If anyone is interested, here is the fire breathing dragon before our ride today :wink:

We warmed up in the outdoor ring, then did some simple and relaxed walk/trot stuff up and down the long driveway to the barn. Made some big circles around some of the outdoor paddocks, and figure 8s between trees and picnic tables. I didn't have the time to devote to the trails this morning, but this was a nice ride. I have to remember that even just riding along the driveway used to freak her out similarly, and now she's just fine. As someone above said, repetition is the key!