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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is Shaffiek, he is 3 years old 15hh(and still growing), he's a Mustang/Arabian/Quarter Horse cross, and yes he IS a stallion(iknow iknow... he's a grade piece of unworthy horse that severally needs gelded bla bla bla)
BUUUTTT I was wondering what you guys thought of his jumping skills. Maybe his long thick legs and slender body can be put to some great use?!(though I will never be able to jump him myself). I know he's young but trust me, I would never push him to his limits, he only jumps as high as he is comfortable with(otherwise I would probably be forcing him over 4ft fences)

I know he need work on his tuck and striding. But if you see anything else feel free to point it out!
(I couldn't figure out how to embed the videos:-|)


This one if from a front angle



The jumps are all 3ft high, the Jumping Standards are 4ft. Here are a couple pictures(still shots from the video's)





 

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I think you're going to end up with a seriously injured horse if you keep this crap up.

Only as high as he's comfortable with? Maybe you should concentrate on actually training him to lunge properly before CHASING him towards fences that he's popping so badly, I winced everytime he landed on those poor young legs. When a horse WON'T jump unless you're HURTLING him towards it, STOP. There is NO jump in this video that gives even a remote idea of his actual jumping ability - he has no interest in doing this, is looking for any way out possible, and is NOT enjoying himself. He's unbalanced and jumping badly, and should not be going over fences this big until he learns to use himself or he's going to seriously damage his legs.

I won't even touch the gelding issue as it has nothing to do with the video, but I'm sure you can ascertain my opinion of that too anyway.
 

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I"m sorry but I am going to have to agree with everything MacabreMikolaj just said. This horse is not in any condition or form to be jumping so much as a 1 foot jump. You say you would never push him but um...I'm sorry if a horse refuses a jump 2 times until the 3rd you finally get him forced over...then that is pushing him.

Let him finish growing and developing his legs. Get him in condition and muscled up. Teach him to use his body and then maybe you can think about starting poles on the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i'm not forcing him... if I was forcing him he wouldnt of been able to refuse(or when he tried he would have jumped from a stand).
as for the "lunging properly" thing, he lunges just fine, I dont know where you are seeing him not lunging properly? He lunges on a single, he works with side reins, hes has had lots of ground work...
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You can't FORCE a horse to jump anymore then you can FORCE a horse to drink water - you can beat him as much as you like, some will never try. What you are doing IS in as much force as a human can create - he is jumping terribly, and landing in awful awful ways that are blatantly hurting him, and when he tries to tell you that by refusing multiple times, you set him up to "chase" him over the jump.

Free jumping is not about chasing - you don't WANT a horse galloping the fence. You want a proper and controlled lunging circle so the horse can judge his distance and balance himself. If you are CHASING him into a fast canter, you are only setting him up to be severely injured because he has NO balance going into this fence.

He is DRAGGING you around that tiny circle - my biggest indication that neither HIM nor YOU know how to lunge properly. No youngster (or any horse for that matter) should be made to be cantering such a tiny circle, much less being thrown at a fence WAY to big for him.


 

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I have to agree with the others. You may not be forcing him, but you are confusing him with your body language and the general set up of the whole situation.

Lunging over single fences higher than two feet can be dangerous in a circle that small. You're asking him to perform a turn into a jump that he is simply not physically capable of doing - it is better fit for an amateur stadium course.
The jump is not set up correctly - see how deep he is getting in to it? That's because he can't see how high or far away it is. It has no ground line, or even a second pole to give it any depth. See this post for more detail on how horses see fences.

My suggestion? Free-jumping him (correctly) to assess potential is great. Try setting up a chute (made of poles or even simple flag-tape) with a properly strided and set up grid, and you'll get better results. It allows them to set themselves up with little or no human interference (except for the intial "go on" shooing at the beginning), they can go in a straight line, and grids naturally help horses (and riders) to get a good rhythem and settle into a nice jump.
Here's an example of free-jumping a grid.

And remember - absolutely do not over jump him! Notice that I said to assess potential, not to train. He's three and he has plenty of growing to do still, and you'll want him to have a long and happy career by remaining nice and sound. ~
 

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The first sentence of this thread should tell you he shouldn't be jumping at all. Still growing? Those jumps are a good example of how a horse that doesn't even know how to use his body on the flat properly jumps. No form, no scope, and a rather painful looking landing.
 

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YOU need to learn how to lunge a horse before trying to teach a young horse how to lunge. Holy...wow.

"3 years old, still growing" HELLLLLLO why are you jumping this horse?! Do you want him to have arthritis by the time he is ten?

What height did you START him jumping on the lunge? When he SHOULD be learning to jump (in like 2 years...not now) you need to start SMALL first. He clearly doesn't have the confidence or stability to go over jumps that high, notice the hesitation? Or maybe the awful jumping form? - and I'm not insulting your horse, I think he could be a good jumper if he had the right kind of guidance.
 

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When you lunge a horse, you should stay in relatively the same spot, not wandering around the pasture.

I don't know much about jumping, but I can tell that that is not the way you start a horse. When he darts between you and the jump like that, he is trying to tell you something. Just like when a potential roping horse is in the chute, and the cow is released, but the horse just stands there. Sure you can kick and whip and poke and prod that cowhorse all you want to get him to go, but he doesn't enjoy it. He isn't interested in the cow, and you make more work for yourself by trying to make him do it.

You are just creating tons more work for yourself, because the horse doesn't enjoy himself. And also, 3 years old is still considered a baby. He may not be a foal, and should have more patientce and attention span than one, but he still needs time for his body to grow and develop. You are putting too much strain on his developing legs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
YOU need to learn how to lunge a horse before trying to teach a young horse how to lunge. Holy...wow.

"3 years old, still growing" HELLLLLLO why are you jumping this horse?! Do you want him to have arthritis by the time he is ten?

What height did you START him jumping on the lunge?
ground poles.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When you lunge a horse, you should stay in relatively the same spot, not wandering around the pasture.

I don't know much about jumping, but I can tell that that is not the way you start a horse. When he darts between you and the jump like that, he is trying to tell you something.
That is How I tought him to lunge. When we got him he would just stand there and refuse to move, and we dont have a roundpen. So I had to use the roundpen body language with the lungeline... I guess I just never found it practical to teach him otherwise.(also I find it much easer to keep the line off the standard if im moving with him)

He darted bewteen me and the jump because the line got caught on the standerd. He was confused as to where to go because usually I back up so he has trotting room. That way we can restart our circle and he can correct his striding.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have to agree with the others. You may not be forcing him, but you are confusing him with your body language and the general set up of the whole situation.

Lunging over single fences higher than two feet can be dangerous in a circle that small. You're asking him to perform a turn into a jump that he is simply not physically capable of doing - it is better fit for an amateur stadium course.
The jump is not set up correctly - see how deep he is getting in to it? That's because he can't see how high or far away it is. It has no ground line, or even a second pole to give it any depth. See this post for more detail on how horses see fences.

My suggestion? Free-jumping him (correctly) to assess potential is great. Try setting up a chute (made of poles or even simple flag-tape) with a properly strided and set up grid, and you'll get better results. It allows them to set themselves up with little or no human interference (except for the intial "go on" shooing at the beginning), they can go in a straight line, and grids naturally help horses (and riders) to get a good rhythem and settle into a nice jump.
Here's an example of free-jumping a grid.

And remember - absolutely do not over jump him! Notice that I said to assess potential, not to train. He's three and he has plenty of growing to do still, and you'll want him to have a long and happy career by remaining nice and sound. ~
The circle's Not THAT small. In the area he is being lunged, from one side of the fence accross to the other, is 75 80 feet...

Yes I know the jump needs a socond poll, im working on finding one.

I have never overworked him, just as soon as he starts showing his disinterest in the jump is when he has one more go at it and then he's done for the day. Jumping is only a part of his exercise.

Thnx for the info, i'll work on setting something up like that.
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Well I don't know anything about training young horses or whatever but I have to say—what a lovely little pony! Very cute, and I love his coloring. Indeed he looks like he needs to snap his knees up more but that's partly due to how close he's taking off from. He'd probably have better form if he took off from further away and had to stretch out. I'd work on a lot of grids and stuff to get him snapping those knees up. :)
 

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If you lean a pole up at an angle against the inside standard it will allow the rope to slide over. I agree with the majority of commenters that he should not be jumped as much/as high until he finishes growing. Stick with poles/cavaletti and teach him to be aware and clever. He is a cutie!!
 

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The circle's Not THAT small. In the area he is being lunged, from one side of the fence accross to the other, is 75 80 feet...

Yes I know the jump needs a socond poll, im working on finding one.

I have never overworked him, just as soon as he starts showing his disinterest in the jump is when he has one more go at it and then he's done for the day. Jumping is only a part of his exercise.

Thnx for the info, i'll work on setting something up like that.
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Yes the circle is small. It is THAT small. And he shows his disinterest in jumping from the begining. He is VERY uncomfortable and its not good for him to be jumping that height at that young of an age . If you are going to jump him dont do ANYTHING over 1'9 to 2'0 you should be doing lots of ground poles. He shouldnt even be jumping until 5 or 6. Dont rush him.
 

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One thing you WILL accomplish by jumping him high and hard at such a young age is teaching him to hate jumping. He definitely isn't lunging properly, or he would not be leaning on that rope hard enough to pull you around at any time, which he does several times. All he's doing is flying around out of control for most of the video. If he can't control his body on the flat he certainly won't be able to do it in the air. And please put up the wiener dog when you work the horse. In the front angle vid, he nearly got run over.
 

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As a note, the size of the jump doesn't bother me here - this horse is 3 years old, his leg joints are closed, and free jumping of ANY height isn't likely to negatively affect him (think Warmbloods). However, he could be jumping a 1'0" fence and if he's this unbalanced and landing so heavily, I would voice the same opinion.

Quite frankly, at this height, I only want to see a horse FREE jumped anyway - no lunge line. It far better allows them to judge their own distance and focus on the fence instead of a handler or line getting hung up on things. It may be fine for older and experienced horses, but unless I'm doing little crossrails, I always free jump my horses in a ring at around 3-4 years old to let them figure it out themselves.

However, as it's a LEARNING experience, I also never bother going above 2-3 feet depending on the size of the horse. I only want them to use themselves, not be at risk for getting injured or scared because of being overfaced.

This is a photo of me free jumping Zierra for the VERY first time - she had never seen a jump before this day. She is 4 years old here, and we gradually worked up to this height which is 2'9" (the highest she jumped that day). This is what a good first experience should look like - and 11 years later, Zierra still perks her ears up and gets excited when she sees a jump!

CHECKLIST:
* Properly visible jump with a ground line and a cross pole so she can judge her distance
* Properly made chute to guide her easily into the path of the jump
* Proper leg protection for a young horse who may make mistakes
* Being allowed to set her own pace through the chute and decide for herself how to handle
obstacle.


 

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When you lunge a horse, you should stay in relatively the same spot, not wandering around the pasture.
This isn't directly related, but I disagree with this. It is more engaging for the horse to be moved about when lunging. That way they have to follow you, focus on you in a slightly different place, and have an opportunity to go in straight lines. The key here is that you are the one deciding where to go, the horse shouldn't be dragging you around.
 

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This isn't directly related, but I disagree with this. It is more engaging for the horse to be moved about when lunging. That way they have to follow you, focus on you in a slightly different place, and have an opportunity to go in straight lines. The key here is that you are the one deciding where to go, the horse shouldn't be dragging you around.
Yes. With Otis, I like to make a triangle with his shoulder, hip, and then me facing his barrel. When I line up with his shoulder, he speeds up, and slows down when I line up with his hip. We also go in circles or straight lines around the working area. I can actually make him extend the trot by running beside him down the arena wall. Some people even do through things like simple dressage tests with their horses in spacious arenas. It's really quite awesome, this body language thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
As a note, the size of the jump doesn't bother me here - this horse is 3 years old, his leg joints are closed, and free jumping of ANY height isn't likely to negatively affect him (think Warmbloods). However, he could be jumping a 1'0" fence and if he's this unbalanced and landing so heavily, I would voice the same opinion.

Quite frankly, at this height, I only want to see a horse FREE jumped anyway - no lunge line. It far better allows them to judge their own distance and focus on the fence instead of a handler or line getting hung up on things. It may be fine for older and experienced horses, but unless I'm doing little crossrails, I always free jump my horses in a ring at around 3-4 years old to let them figure it out themselves.

However, as it's a LEARNING experience, I also never bother going above 2-3 feet depending on the size of the horse. I only want them to use themselves, not be at risk for getting injured or scared because of being overfaced.

This is a photo of me free jumping Zierra for the VERY first time - she had never seen a jump before this day. She is 4 years old here, and we gradually worked up to this height which is 2'9" (the highest she jumped that day). This is what a good first experience should look like - and 11 years later, Zierra still perks her ears up and gets excited when she sees a jump!

CHECKLIST:
* Properly visible jump with a ground line and a cross pole so she can judge her distance
* Properly made chute to guide her easily into the path of the jump
* Proper leg protection for a young horse who may make mistakes
* Being allowed to set her own pace through the chute and decide for herself how to handle
obstacle.


sooo, if i'm reading this right: You want him to do gridwork? why didnt you just say so?
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