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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So we are thinking of breeding my mare Holly with Psy.

Holly ->
Show name - Hollars Lil Hopper
Sire- Fists and Feet Fly (reg APHA)
Dam - N/A

9 yr Pinto Pony

4-H Champion, Local Clubs and Fairs always in Ribbions.
English/Western. Pleasure, Games, Hunter. All around fun reliable horse.





Psytation aka Psy ->

Willowsprings Arabians | Psyitation (Padrons Psyche x Alada Romance (Alada Baskin)



Just wondering what you guys think..

also yes I'm WAY ahead of myself on this but I have been brain storming some names...

Psytora aka Tori for a filly
or
Psyonic aka Sonic for a colt

any other suggestions?

THANKS!:D
 

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I'll go ahead and point out the first few things pointed out in every thread like this:
-It's safer and cheaper to just go to an auction, find a horse that is already broken, or even a foal there that you can train, if that's what you're looking for. Whenever you breed a mare, you are risking it's life, and the foal's life.
-With the horse market like it is, are you prepared to have to sell the foal at some point? Are you going to train it, and make sure it's marketable?
-Do the parents have good conformation, personality, and worth? I'm not going to try to talk about confo, I'm no good at that, but personality wise, are either one of the parents going to pass on vices? Then worth. Yes, your mare has acheivements, but those sort of acheivements won't sell a foal. I'm not going to look at the stallion, but that's another thing. You won't be able to sell a foal if the parents or itself haven't done much.
-Do you have the time and money to deal with first getting a mare pregnant, then taking care of a pregnant mare, then raising a foal, and then training a foal?

All these points are condensed from what I've heard others say, there's probably tons more of this sort of thing- it's what you're going to get.
 

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What is your driving reason for breeding her? I'd also think it would be helpful if you had a better conformation shot and maybe a video of her movement.
 

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Oy vei. I'm going to skip the obvious right now, and delve right into the pure lack of sense it makes to breed this pony to a halter bred stud. Your pony may be sweet, but if you're just looking for another gaming pony, this would be an instance where you'd actually be better off pitching out a couple hundred bucks to the stud down the road instead of breeding to something so completely mismatched to your mare.

Stop looking at big names. Sto\p looking at fancy studs. This stud has been bred to the nines for HALTER, and if you knew much about halter Arabs you'd realize there's been a very definitive demonstration of a completely different conformation type - a conformation type completely ill suited to much of ANY real performance. These animals are essentially specifically bred to be ill equipped to endure any sort of actual work. You couldn't pick a worse type, from any breed, to breed to your mare then a halter bred horse. Dishing out $750 plus vet costs and fees would be a complete and utter waste of money to get a funny looking half-Arab that doesn't have enough flash for halter and doesn't have enough use to do much else.

Obviously you CAN get performance horses out of halter horses, but to go delibrately looking after one in your case only tells me you're looking at big flashy names like somehow an expensive stud will mean your baby is worth something. You're dreaming - a funny looking horse is a funny looking horse, regardless of who it's sire is.

Look for a stud that's actually going to compliment your mare, her type, her conformation and what you actually intend to do with the foal. Or better yet, go buy a dang foal, because for the money you're willing to dish out on an intentionally bred misfit, you could buy yourself a darn nice little gaming colt.
 

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I went to the stallion's website. I would like to see more of him, but it appears he rides and has wins in Western Pleasure as well as showing/winning at Halter.

I think he is a lovely stallion and based on seeing more (movement video, offspring photos/videos, etc) would consider breeding a good WP type stock horse (Paint, QH, Appaloosa, etc.) to him for a pretty Half Arab WP/all around prospect.

However I don't know enough about your mare, her movement, and your desires/plans for the foal to comment on how well this potential breeding might match up for the foal you want. I can't find pedigree info on her APHA sire to be able to see what kind of ancestry she has.

Your mare does look basically correct, is very cute, appears to have a nice disposition, and is a nice color.
 

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Dang, MacabreMikolaj, that was so harsh.. But so true.

I would find a different stud.. One that actually has better accomplishments.. Because your outcome foal may not be suitable for your intentions.. Alas, it is your horse, do what you want with her.
 

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Dang, MacabreMikolaj, that was so harsh.. But so true.
I don't think that was harsh at all. Harsher things were said already. I think it's a valid point that didn't even cross my mind until i read her post. That is EXTREMELY important. Well said, great point to be made!
 

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I think it was harsh and a bit false. Halter Arabs can and do show well in performance. Not all of them (just like any other breed) are winners.


Psy_4.JPG

Psyitation looks typey and basically correct. Not an outstanding arab, but a decent one. I wouldn't choose him for your mare, personally. They just don't match. And that's NOT because I think that halter Arabs and other breeds don't cross well.
 

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I think it was harsh and a bit false. Halter Arabs can and do show well in performance. Not all of them (just like any other breed) are winners.


View attachment 30035

Psyitation looks typey and basically correct. Not an outstanding arab, but a decent one. I wouldn't choose him for your mare, personally. They just don't match. And that's NOT because I think that halter Arabs and other breeds don't cross well.
You missed my point completely and entirely. I never said halter horses are incapable of showing performance. What I said was that it is blatantly obvious that the OP is merely picking a somewhat fancy stud based on him BEING somewhat fancy - not based on what he's somewhat fancy for. I have no doubts this stud could sire stellar performance horses - but we're referring to stellar Arabian performance horses. Which is an ENORMOUS difference from a backyard Half-Arab. He is about as typically flat crouped as they come, and while that may serve him in some Arabian performance, it's hardly going to be helpful on the local gaming pony.

There are much better studs she could breed her mare to then this one, based on the type and conformation of her mare alone. If she's looking for a fancy halter horse, she needs to go buy a fancy halter horse. If she's looking for a good performance horse, she needs to find a proper performance stud to breed to.

And I have followed the Arabian breed my entire life. The halter specimen's are an absolute travesty to what they used to be - and that was a horse that could just as easily win in performance seeing as how a winning halter animal should BE a representation of the best of it's breed, not the best of a bunch of hook necked spindly legged giraffes specifically bred to do nothing but look pretty.
 

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>>>>You missed my point completely and entirely. I never said halter horses are incapable of showing performance. What I said was that it is blatantly obvious that the OP is merely picking a somewhat fancy stud based on him BEING somewhat fancy - not based on what he's somewhat fancy for. I have no doubts this stud could sire stellar performance horses - but we're referring to stellar Arabian performance horses. Which is an ENORMOUS difference from a backyard Half-Arab. He is about as typically flat crouped as they come, and while that may serve him in some Arabian performance, it's hardly going to be helpful on the local gaming pony.

>>>>>There are much better studs she could breed her mare to then this one, based on the type and conformation of her mare alone. If she's looking for a fancy halter horse, she needs to go buy a fancy halter horse. If she's looking for a good performance horse, she needs to find a proper performance stud to breed to.


What if she is looking to show at Arab shows, in 1/2 Arab Halter and Performance classes? Also perhaps some local open shows? She never said. If thats what she wants, this stallion could likely sire that type of foal-- not sure he would do it out of this mare, because I have not seen enough of the mare because she also never posted a proper photo of her mare to asses conformation.


And I have followed the Arabian breed my entire life. The halter specimen's are an absolute travesty to what they used to be - and that was a horse that could just as easily win in performance seeing as how a winning halter animal should BE a representation of the best of it's breed, not the best of a bunch of hook necked spindly legged giraffes specifically bred to do nothing but look pretty.

Wait-- in your first paragraph you said,
"I never said halter horses are incapable of showing performance."
and
"I have no doubts this stud could sire stellar performance horses - but we're referring to stellar Arabian performance horses."

And this stallion has won at Halter, and also is being show under saddle and has won at Western Pleasure. So do you consider him a travesty that is spindly legged and hook necked that can do nothing but look pretty? Or a horse that can show both Halter and Performance, and potentially sire Performance horses? I am confused.


I am also bemused by you "specifically bred to do nothing but look pretty" comment about current Arabian halter horses. Several horses in Psyitation's pedigree were successful Performance and Race horses, and/or sired successful Performance and/or Race horses. His sire, Padron's Psyche, was "pointed toward" Halter and siring Halter horses, but produced Performers as well, including being on the leading sires list for Performance. *Padron, sire of Padron's Psyche, also sired many successful performers. *Padron's sire had a Race record in Poland. *Padron was not spindly and giraffe-like, and IMO he could move.

Psyitation's dam was sired by Alada Baskin-- known as a sire of Performance as well as Halter horses-- and there is Baske-Tu, plenty of Crabbett, and etc.

Being fitted and shown at Halter and winning does not negate having Performing bloodlines and potential.


And the long hooky neck and flat croup? Not a new trend.

From Psyitation's pedigree--
---------Gerwazy, foaled 1955---------Amurath Sahib, foaled 1932---


---------Skowronek, foaled 1908--------------Bright Shadow, foaled 1948--


----------------Raseyn, foaled 1923----------------------Nureddin II, foaled 1911-----


---------------------------------Ahmar, foaled 1890------------------------


--------------------------Shawan, foaled 1887--------------



Now I will agree that fitting, showing, posing and photography HAVE changed-- but the above horses? fit 'em and pose 'em and photograph 'em like today's halter Arabian, and IMO you would see stretch and hook and tabletop croups all over the place.... (and I hate to say it, but I think I already might see some slight hints of spindly and giraffe-like trends in a few the above historic horses....)



NOW back to the OP.... would Psyitation be a good cross for the OP's pinto pony mare? Don't know. Have not seen enough of the mare, and I don't know what the OP wants from a foal.




 

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I understand that this particular stud is not as much bred specifically for halter as others - he has a rather impressive performance pedigree on his dam side.

My entire point is that even if this individual wanted to show Arabian shows, which I somehow doubt, she could find a better stud for performance. And if she wants to show halter, then breeding a foal from her mare is not the brightest idea.

I apologize for where I went wrong and that was assuming the OP did not want to compete at Arabian shows. Arabians that are bred for halter and win performance in ARABIAN shows are not a huge feat. Go to an Arabian show and you practically can't tell the difference between Park, English Pleasure, Country Pleasure, etc. like you could back in the day. Show me a halter bred Arab that's out cutting cows and chasing cans, or producing offspring that do and I'll be impressed.

I suppose my own sentiments about halter Arabs don't even matter, but my final point still being that at the end of the day, she has much better options and should be looking for a performance driven stud who's winning and producing performance horses, or else buying a halter foal is that's what she wants to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
sorry should have given more details..

Psy is at the barn I work and board at and the BO are offering a free stud fee as they really like my mare and think they would make a nice foal. It will be reg. under the Arab ***. and hopefully I'll get to learn more about the arab world along the way and be able to show and do 'well' with this baby, if not atleast be able to have a fun reliable mount I can kick around on the trails, load up go local fun shows, put friends on and not worry ect.

I am actually from the QH world and new to the Arab world (completly different, but learning) hopefully I will be having the chance to show Psy in the states in Arab shows this year..

As for chooseing a APHA or something more suited well they are offering a free stud fee and keeping of the foal free of charge... (yes we dont need any unwanted useless horses blah blah , don't bite my head off) but with Psy's lines and both sire and dams personality ect. I don't feel this foal is a waste of time or space.

As for Confo. photos I dont have any digital on this computer so will get some tomorrow.

Thanks for your opinions thus far.
 

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It's not perfect but the money you would save breeding to him would help you put more money into the dam and foal to ensure health and a good start. So while I don't condone breeding to just breed, I don't have as much a problem with this as I do with most of the breeding posts on here. If I got the chance to free breed my mare to an exceptional stallion and get it at least registered as half-whatever then I would probably do it too. If they both have great minds and are great riding horses and you do everything in your power to give the foal the best training and chance in life then that's all the more that we can ask for. I don't think that responsible breeders, even backyard or "amateur" breeders should be forced to bear the responsibility of the over breeding of structural trainwrecks and grade horses with no use. And I would much rather have someone breed their well built, great disposition and wonderful riding favorite mare and keep the foal than big name breeders that breed to pedigrees and not to what the animals need to improve on performance and conformation wise and end up with highly bred but unsound, ugly and unsuitable babies. Or those that just put a mare and stud together because they have the right parts.
 

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Psy is at the barn I work and board at and the BO are offering a free stud fee as they really like my mare and think they would make a nice foal.
I guess I gonna sound harsh, but... Free usually just a cheese in mice trap. :)

I'm with MM on this. Even though it was suggested to you for free (which really bugs me if it's a world class stud), I don't think it's a good match conformation-wise.

JDI, I'm not positive you can register in APHA if you have no record of dam (which looks like a case here according to the original post). I do remember friends of mine had a headache with it (ended up doing DNA testing for the baby and dam).
 

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Hmm.

Well, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, regardless.

I like this stallion. Have looked at him a few times. He's not only got a great sire line, but a helluva dam's line as well. He's going halter and performance (kind of) so points for that.
I don't think that his foals would be a waste of time or space, either. Crossed with a Muscat/Bask/Khemosabi/AM Sea Captain/Xenophonn mare, he's got a chance of producing some Regional/National foals in the working western division.

But bred to a grade pinto? Eh....
 

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>>> JDI, I'm not positive you can register in APHA if you have no record of dam (which looks like a case here according to the original post). I do remember friends of mine had a headache with it (ended up doing DNA testing for the baby and dam).


For APHA eligible foals, both parents have to be registered-- one parent APHA, and the other parent APHA, AQHA, or JC.

For 1/2 Arabian registration, only the purebred Arabian parent must be registered-- the other parent can be unregistered.
 
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