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Discussion Starter #1
I have asked my trimmer to come out and see what she thinks is going on. I previously have been in touch with her through pictures and email. Up to now, neither she nor others I have asked have thought this was a concern, but we were monitoring it to see if it improved, stayed the same or worsened. In my opinion it has worsened in the past 3 weeks and, as I said, I have asked for someone to come out in person for advice. However, thought I'd ask here if anyone has every come across this before.

History is good -- no lameness, was some thrush (hence the heavy trim on the frog) but gone now, no tenderness, no bruising. I can poke around and it doesn't bother her but it worries me that this is so deep.

NH-Sole.jpg

NH-apex-02.jpg

She has been trimmed since these pics were taken just to do her heels and a roll.

Ideas?
 

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The ridge around the frog is there for support. My understanding is the inner hoof needs the support there, perhaps due to the frog being trimmed back. Really not sure if that's the reason, but don't trim that ridge off. ..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yup, I'm definitely not trimming in that area. That pic is about 3 weeks old. I'm going to take new ones today and I'll try to post them. This is on both hinds, by the way, but not on her fronts.
 

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Wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much heel in these pictures. Let's see the new ones where that heel's been taken down.
You are right. I was so intent on the ridge around the frog I didn't even note that the heels do appear to be pretty high.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Actually her heels weren't all THAT high when that pic was taken. My trimmer thought so too until I sent her a pic from another angle. Anyway, here she is today and what I am referring to is the "hole" at the apex of her frog that is about 3/8" deep. And, no, I am not trimming there -- just using the knife as an indicator. The spots on her frog showing work are from the rasp work, not the knife.

Maybe this is just where her frog needs to grow back in and I'm over-thinking / worrying about nothing.

Jade-NH-2010-02-20-006.jpg

Jade-NH-2010-02-20-008.jpg

Jade-NH-2010-02-20-003.jpg
(wow, incredibly bac pic -- sorry.)

Notice too that she is uneven -- see her frog is more developed on the outside. Her other hind is like that too. I am trying to be more careful on keeping even heels. She has always toed out in the back, but if I am more careful, maybe I can improve it even more than already done.
 

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Wow, camera angles can sure play tricks on you. They sure did look higher than they do in the rear view. ;) Might that "hole be a blown abscess exit?
 

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There's more to come off the heels, as well the heels are of different heights, but I think the biggest problem now is that your frog is not healthy. All the dead, crappy stuff needs to come off, the channel cleaned out, and let the whole length of the frog hit the ground to get blood flow going.

If the horse were to step in a shallow puddle of water and then walk on a dry spot the wet imprint of the hoof should be an entire wide circular band that does not have any breaks in it...that means the heel and frog should close the band, and then you should be able to see the entire frog. Only a small inner part in the shape of a 'U' (the front being the inner part of the 'U') should be 'dry'.

More development means more weight bearing is happening there. In turn that means the trim is not balanced.
 

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What i can see in pictures it looks like the frog needs to be trimmed properly. which is cleaning the v shape of the frog with a loop knife so no dirt can get trapped in there and treat the frog for thrush and it should grow back just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Mercedes -- the frog was heavily trimmed for the thrush a while back and I am currently letting it grow back in. I habitually only trim areas that might tear or, as you say, allow dirt to accumulate. The frog is indeed making contact and there is no evidence of thrush in my opinion any longer. Maybe the frog looks rough because of the earlier trim job. I don't think there is much dead crappy stuff there anymore. I also wet the hoof before taking the pictures to hopefully improve the pictures, so maybe it looks funny because of that. And, yes as I said, I did note that my trim was not balanced, but I'm working on it. I think the heels are even now though. I will look again next time, just in case. When she came to me she was much more toed out than she is now and I have definitely been working on that. I find her heels harder to read than I first thought I think.

But, Mercedes, do you have any opinion on the apex area?

Anvil -- You also are talking of trimming the frog. Can one of you please photoshop my pic to indicate what areas you are talking about? Anvil, do you think that maybe this "hole" is just where the frog needs to grow back in then?

Appyt -- I don't think it's from an abscess or bruise. She did have an issue several months back and I posted a thread on it, but it was nowhere near this location. It was basically in the heel triangle area.
 

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NorthernMama, I would not trim the frog either unless you have large loose stuff. Usually those will resolve on their own if the heels are not way high anyway. I prefer to allow nature to work it out when possible. I don't worry about little dirt trappin areas(like at the heels) either unless a problem develops. Just work on the walls being balanced to the sole. Don't worry about fixing toeing out or in. If it's natural for that horse then damage can be caused in joints if you try to alter it. Not sure if you were doing that, just wanted to bring it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm not trying to fix her toe out, but I do find it makes it more difficult to keep her heels even. Or maybe it's that one side grows faster than the other. I dunno, but it's not as pronounced now as it once was. Or at least, I like to tell myself that.
 

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Ok, gotcha.. I know my horses with toe out and toe in's do wear(or grow) them uneven. When you trim often that helps so much to keep them from going really wonky. :)
 

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I'm not trying to fix her toe out, but I do find it makes it more difficult to keep her heels even. Or maybe it's that one side grows faster than the other. I dunno, but it's not as pronounced now as it once was. Or at least, I like to tell myself that.
When one side/one heal grows more than the other it is because the hoof is not bearing equal weight, suggesting that you're not getting the foot properly balanced from the start, so that it's always a bit out and then gets more out of balance by the uneven weight bearing. The after trim picture shows that the heels are not right yet.

The only other time you get uneven wear/growth is when you have a lameness issue. It doesn't have to an obvious head bob. It can be a jammed shoulder, a stuck neck, a crooked breast plate, a dropped hip etc...

In terms of your apex...if the frog is currently undiseased, hits the ground it's entire length, and in the process of healthy regrowth, then presumably it will regrow at the apex.
 

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When one side/one heal grows more than the other it is
because the hoof is not bearing equal weight, suggesting
that you're not getting the foot properly balanced from the
start,/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. When a horse is pigeontoed or spayfooted due to conformation they will wear the hoof unevenly.
 

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Heck, I wear my heels uneven too. Evidently I walk a bit heavier on the inside of my heels. My shoes testify to that. I do track straight, not splay footed tho. ;)
 
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