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Discussion Starter #121
I’m gonna update even though I don’t know if anybody looks at this or cares anymore but it helps me organize my thoughts and I guess just in case someone has advice. Anyways, since last time she’s been better. The time after that she was perfect about the hooves. 2 times after she was back to how she was before but I told her off and she let me pick her hooves. It was the first day it’s been in the 30s here so I can see why (she was feisty in general). Today, she was good, she did try to bite me after I picked up her hoof and I dropped it but I picked it up again to let her know that that wouldn’t make me not pick it.

So I’ve been paying attention to when I ride and how she is so I’m going to rate how she is depending on the scenario.
1. When she has hay she is generally the best behaved 2. When it’s a neutral time (not right before feeding time) she is pretty good 3. When her stall neighbor isn’t in her stall she is better because she gets all bitey at her neighbor (who always has hay in her stall I think because she’s older and Betty always wants the hay) which makes her more bitey towards me 4. On warm days she’s generally better 5.On cold days when she’s used to warm days she’s not the best to deal with in general (very sensitive to the weather according to the trainer who has had he since she was born) and from experience 6. Before feeding time she’s the worst to deal with in general

Anyways, I’m gonna be done updating this unless anyone has any advice or something big happens.
 

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she did try to bite me after I picked up her hoof and I dropped it but I picked it up again to let her know that that wouldn’t make me not pick it.
Just remember, horses need instant feedback to 'connect the dots'. She told you off, you dropped the foot - so it worked for her. Doesn't matter what you did next. Punishment or reward must happen at the time of the behaviour you want to influence.
 

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Discussion Starter #123
True, that already happened though so I have no control over that. I’d rather focus on next time which I can control. So next time I won’t do that. I realized that was happening a couple weeks ago when I was putting on her saddle or whatever I was doing then I would stop what I was doing if she tried to bite me but I’m trying not to anymore it’s just my reaction. But what should I do when I’m bent over and can’t see her? Like last time I did anything while picking her hooves well she bit me since I couldn’t see her and push her head away or anything.

I would just ask for help (which I do if she’s really bad) which would temporarily solve the problem. But my instructor’s words and I’m sure people will agree it has to come from me. Sure, she’ll be perfectly behaved when the instructor comes over since she knows the instructor won’t let her get away with it but what about when she’s not there. I mean if she didn’t know how to behave then I obviously wouldn’t be the one teaching her. But she knows how to behave and does it for other people, it’s just a matter of me telling her off which I get really nervous about. I really want her to respect me but I need to be the one to get her to I guess is what I’m trying to say.

But yeah what should I do when I’m picking her hooves? Because if I want to discipline her then I’d have to be able to see what she’s doing so I don’t get bit again. But then I also can’t drop the hoof because that’s what she wants. Any advice?
 

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As I've said before my advice is, for safety's sake you don't deal with this horse alone. Yes, that won't teach her to put up with you but I think your safety is a smidge more important.

If/as you're going to do it anyway, tie her up. Won't stop other undesirable responses from her but will stop her being able to bite.
 

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Discussion Starter #125 (Edited)
@loosie well I want to tie her but I don’t know how/what to tie her to. I’ve asked on here but nobody responds to that. So how do I do it? What do I tie her to in her stall? Edit: what if I had someone other than the trainers hold her? Like my mom or something because at shows that’s what I do since I normally have to tack her up faster than at home. Would that work instead or is tying better?
 

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If the horses are tacked up in the stalls, you could ask the stable if they could install an eye bolt for you to tie to.
Only tie a horse of you know how to use a quick release knot.
Otherwise, if there is a feeder you can loop a lead around, sometimes you can trick a horse into thinking they are tied.
 

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Discussion Starter #127
I just thought of something. So I have no clue how to tie a horse and once my instructor tried tying her (maybe she just looped it to trick her I didn’t really pay attention) I don’t know what kind of knot but she just undid it when she moved her head so I don’t think I could trick her (but I’ll try). But she used to have a cross tie in her stall but then they took it out to use for something else so maybe I could ask for them to put it in there again? It wouldn’t fully restrict her but it would be better than nothing and it did restrict her enough that she couldn’t eat hay unless I kicked it really close to the cross tie so it would work I guess. Or maybe they’ll let me use the grooming stalls, I’ll have to see.

I think they only put it there because it made me more comfortable when we started to have to tack them up in their stalls since once I had a bad experience in her stall. So this was maybe 1 or 2 years ago and hasn’t happened since but it really scared me for a long time after. So all the grooming stalls were getting used so I had to tack her up in her stall. She was being awful and I went to put her ear plugs in. She tried to bite me and I slapped her and she turned around and pinned me with her butt against the wall. Luckily she didn’t kick me or anything. So then I obviously got help and had the trainers hold her outside of her stall and they always made sure that I could have a grooming stall for a few months after that happened. Now I’m not scared of that happening because she hasn’t done that and I walk behind her all the time (I use my hand to tell her where I am).
 

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You mean there is not even anything TO tie her to?? Betty yet again, you have told us of yet another seriously dangerous situation, dangerous set up they are just leaving you in. You SHOULD be afraid of dealing with this horse unrestrained in her stall! It is not unreasonable of you - it is just yet one more eg of their negligence of your safety. No way I'd be putting kids in that situation in a pink fit! Do your parents know what dangers these people are putting their daughter in??
 

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Discussion Starter #130
@loosie oh ok. Yeah they do but they think it’s kind of funny because they know absolutely nothing about horses and I always pretend everything’s fine. There isn’t really anything to tie her to and someone just told me on this thread unless I know how to do it in a quick release knot then I shouldn’t but no there’s not anything really to tie her to. The cross tie was attached to this loop of twine or something. So I guess that’s something but it’s pretty high in the air (like a foot taller than Betty’s head) so it probably wouldn’t work to tie her to, only for something to hang a cross tie down from and then attach it to her halter. @egrogan yes, because of covid they don’t want to have people sharing spaces (grooming stalls) I don’t really know I don’t make the rules, just follow them.
I just don’t know what to do anymore. And I have to ride tomorrow (or I’ll get yelled at and threatened to get horse riding totally taken away). I love Betty to death, I’m just not brave enough to tell her off hard so I have to do something else but I don’t know what.
 

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@egrogan yes, because of covid they don’t want to have people sharing spaces (grooming stalls) I don’t really know I don’t make the rules, just follow them.
That does make sense. I think I would ask my instructor to create a place to tie. Someone mentioned earlier putting in a tie ring. For $35, if you had permission to drill into the stall (into a solid beam or stud, NOT to a board), you could buy a Blocker Tie Ring (any tack store or a place like Smartpak has them: https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/blocker-tie-ring). There are videos and instructions online about to use this safely. If you need a less expensive option, you could screw a heavy duty eye-ring into a beam, and use a breakaway trailer tie hooked to that and clipped to your mares halter (Dura-Tech® Double Ply Adjustable Nylon Trailer Ties | Schneiders Saddlery)

You do want something that attaches higher up (like you described, above her head) because it’s safer that way-less chance of getting a leg caught over or under the rope and panicking.
 

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Discussion Starter #132
@egrogan thanks! Those trailer things look exactly the same as the crosstie thing that used to be in her stall. They have the same top and the material is the same, just what clips to her halter was a different type of clip. Tomorrow, I’ll look closer at what the thing was that the crosstie/trailer tie was attached to because I really don’t pay attention to it. Only thing is, I have no clue what the difference is between beams and boards lol.
 

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Quote button not working so doing manually...

but they think it’s kind of funny because they know absolutely nothing about horses and I always pretend everything’s fine.
You really need to be taking it seriously. I do remember when I was... of the invincible age myself. But there comes a time when you realise that no one's going to give you a new back, or a new head, if yours gets busted. And you realise that some of the things you were once blase about, with more life experience, were plurry dangerous! So I can only tell you, again, from an older person's experience, it is not worth putting yourself in this level of risk!

The cross tie was attached to this loop of twine or something. So I guess that’s something but it’s pretty high in the air (like a foot taller than Betty’s head) so it probably wouldn’t work to tie her to,
The only difference between tying a horse regularly or x-tying is that you have a restraint either side of the horse, rather than just one. If you're not sure whether the horse will pull back or such, tying to twine is a bit of a 'safety precaution' - they will break easily, rather than breaking their gear or themselves if they panic. And tying that high is also no problem - it's safer to tie a horse above at least wither height.

If you need a less expensive option, you could screw a heavy duty eye-ring
I second the Blocker Tie ring as a handy piece of kit. But yeah, they're not cheap for what they are - as is anything with 'horse' in the title! There's another specifically horsey contraption that's good & cheaper(well, it was...) called The Clip and there are abseiling 'Figure 8's' which you can essentially use the same way. And if you have any old single joint snaffles floating around, cutting open the joint with a grinder(& rounding sharp edges off) will give you essentially the same beast as a Blocker Tie ring.
 

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Discussion Starter #134
@loosie so basically I have to ride today so I’ll check out what the thing the trailer tie/cross tie (it wasn’t cross ties like in the grooming stalls, it was just a single one and it looks like the trailer ties so I think that’s what it was) was attached to and then update this. I mean I take it seriously but my parents don’t is what I was saying. Like I’ll say oh Betty bit my butt today (that one time) and they’ll just laugh. Or Betty was naughty today in her stall and they just say oh of course, it’s Betty.

To me, it’s worth it (but of course I’ll take precautions not to get hurt when possible) so we just have to agree to disagree. I mean with that mindset we all might as well not ride because no matter how dependable the horse is, we could fall off any second and die. At least that’s my point of view on that. I mean I’ll obviously try not to get hurt but that doesn’t mean stopping and giving up. Some things aren’t worth it and some are and it might not seem worth it to you, but it is for me. Just like something worth it to you won’t seem worth it to me. Or to some people, riding isn’t worth the risk but to us it is. But yes, if it gets out of hand I’ll have someone else tack her up or have the trainer hold her so she behaves. And no matter what, I’m going to get something in there to make it safer. But yeah, I’ll update this after I ride today.
 

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Discussion Starter #135
So I checked when I rode and it was twine but like really thick and strong so I think it’ll work. I’m going to have my mom text and ask because I’m scared to ask. I know it’s bad that I’m not asking but it needs to be done somehow. I guess she’ll just ask if they can put the crosstie back in her stall because I don’t feel comfortable without it. Also, when I was riding, I passed by someone tacking up who was using the cross ties/trailer ties in their stall and it was also attached to the same type of rope/twine so I think it should be fine. But it’s not my job to figure that out anyways, it’s the trainers job.

And I know it seems like the trainers are putting me in an unsafe situation but I don’t think they know how bad it is. Like whenever they come and hold her she just behaves so they probably think she was just pinning her ears or something harmless and it scared me. I mean I do explain it but they probably think I’m over exaggerating or it was just because it was feeding time (the times I asked for help was always at feeding time).
 

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I think at this point they probably feel you should have enough experience to handle it and use effective correction. That you haven't says to me you need more instruction in handling a horse from the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #137
So I’m supposed to deal with it or no!? Everyone else is saying no and I should tie her up/cross tie her so thats what I’m going to do. It won’t solve the problem but according to them that’s fine and tying her up is better because I can stay safe. And to me that seems right so that’s what I’m going to do. And at some point, I might be able to punish her with the crosstie on and I’ll be out of her reach. But I don’t know how that will work so one thing at a time.
 

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I've been following most of this saga for 3 months and not said a word, till now.
Your last post is disturbing to a adult reading your story...
First off I mean no disrespect, recognize your are "a kid" and will tell you up front my words are not sugar-coated but hard facts told the way I see them.
I write bluntly and to the point but never a put-down to anyone...


You are going to have to "deal with it"....it being a very broad slate of things you yet need to learn how to do,what is acceptable or not for the horse to do and how to go about getting the right response to a bad situation, aka turning it around.
You do not ask at that moment for the help as you just said you need to ask your mom to intervene for you...
A kid or not ,you do recognize the danger you are in or you would not of started this topic nor reached out for help.
Speak up and ask...be recognized for being mature enough to know you need help.

Your trainers when they do come to help you are experienced handlers of horse{s} and know how to work with and around them, to keep themselves a safe distance and to project a attitude the animal respects and not be pushed around as this animal does to you.
That takes time to learn how to do, and only by asking how, watching and being watched while working with and doing, from them slightly out of sight will the horse learn you are not as ignorant of horse-handling technique as you once were...
That is not a put down nor picking on you...it is stating a fact that you have yet a lot to learn and in the meantime are in danger from this animals actions aimed at you and your innocence of not knowing how to do better.

That cross-tie thing in the stall is supposed to be above their head a foot or so and then ties adjusted so the horse is not able to put the head to the ground, but able to stand at a natural head elevation and restrict movement and motion to protect you.
You mention showing and trailering so you obviously have seen inside a horse truck or trailer and that horses heads are restrained when in transit...same idea and for the same reasons...to restrict motion and keep all inhabitants safer.
You've seen cross-ties in various places at the barn and used them so know what it should resemble.
No bungee cords used and a solid trailer tie, a long lead shank secured to the wall, or appropriate length chain with clips...the horse can't go to far if they object cause guess what...a solid wall is what their body meets.
Best for you would be to have a tie on either side of the stall so you are using a real cross-tie situation and only now the butt-end of the horse is free to shift your way easily...

As for "punishing the horse"...please don't.
By your own admission you have no clue of what is right or wrong nor how to do "punishing" and that is what will get you hurt at the least, possibly broken bones, a fractured skull, broken back or dead at the most...no joke and yes it is accurate in what you could face.
You are not going to "punish" a 1000 pound animal as you think...😐
You would be lucky is you only got a nasty bite but unleash the nasty every horse has when provoked and you have more horse attacking you than you or most anyone knows how to react to and get safely away, especially confined in a stall and I bet you don't keep your back to the opening so if the nasty hits you can't get out fast enough and will get hurt...

No one here is being rude, nasty or blaming you...
We are experienced, learned from the school of been there done it and some done it wrong to try to warn you, to offer helpful comment and to shake you up enough to realize you may be in over your head and going to get hurt..
If your parents are not your advocate to get you correct help and learning how to do with horses... :confused: then they need a awakening of what this horse is capable of and what you have been desperately asking for help with....
YouTube videos, google some up of what happens when a horse attacks a human in a stall environment, when a horse has other bad habits and no correction and let them see, let them watch what could happen to you....
Warwick Schiller is a known and recognized trainer and often has some good videos to share and people speak highly of him and his ways...
Here's one
, just one of his videos...and this horse is a nothing in a stall to deal with!
However, don't ever, never ever close and lock a stall door behind you with a horse and you together inside a stall...
I can not believe he did that in a video others will watch and copy his actions of....OMG!:eek:

The reason being, you have no escape if something goes even a bit wrong you are a sitting duck for a terrible beating or horrible death by a angry horse...and it happens!
I could not believe Warwick did such a thing, and no I did not have on sound, actions were enough seen to alarm me...but normally the man is a wealth of sound advice, to watch, to learn how to approach and do help...
Nothing though is as good as in-person help from learned professionals or good horseman helping you, teaching you how to do safely...cause right now the help is not so good your barn is offering you.

Please do take the comments made by all the posters in this lengthy 3 month long and ongoing thread of your problems with this horse as people trying to help you, to offer to you a means to be safe and work through issues you seem to be having.
We are not "kids", have years of experience behind us and honestly, you need to be open to reading words that are critical of what you are doing to learn, to apply what is being offered because many of us have been where you are and know what it is to be frightened, scared and in over our head...
Recognizing your ability and your limitations are the first step in truly finding solutions to your issue{s} and being able to ask the right people to help you, to show and educate you in how they do and how to do horse-related things safely with the same animal you are currently being threatened by...

I will now go back to lurking and reading, but you can not pass the blame to others always either.
You are a kid, but at some time you need to be held accountable for your actions and the reactions of animals in your care and handling so you can learn from your mistakes made...called growing up.
We, all of us have had criticism aimed at us as we learned, cause no one is born knowing how to do...you learn by watching others, by getting in trouble and someone bailing you out...rinse, repeat on issue after issue after issue.
When working with animals you never stop learning and applying new knowledge to find a better, a safer way of doing...or you will get hurt that is a fact.
I offer you the best of good instruction come your way, be safe and be always aware of your surroundings.
🐴 ...
jmo...
 
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