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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday I met a young girl who came to do a days stock work with us. She is a nice young thing I liked her. She was riding her little black QH mare that is on the property to have a QH stallion put over it. I have met the girls parents once or twice a over the years on various horse treks.

Her mother is an EXTREMELY nervous rider, the sort that if you try talking to her on a ride you end up babysitting her because she clings on "Don't leave me, Please!". The girls father is recently taken up horse riding and sits in the saddle like a sack of potatoes while hanging on via the horses mouth. I watched as the girl groomed and saddled her mare yesterday. She never brushed her rump or tail ( which I filed in the catagory of Suspicious) and the horse jumped around while she tried to do up the girth and the breastplate. At morning tea, lunch and afternoon break she couldn't tie up her horse because she can't, it won't tie at all. And during the course of the day the horse reared and charged and I found out she doesn't go behind it or brush it's bum because, yes, it does kick.

So her parents have sent their fourteen year old daughter out into the world on a horse that kicks, fights and brawls with her. The girl is doing the best she knows but doesn't seem inclined to know more.

The best thing of all, these people are now breeding horses and training horses to sell! Doesn't that rip your undies!!

Isn't it amazing to think that as fast as good people are trying to teach people and horses how to get along in harmony their are people out there manufacturing potential horse problems. You wonder where all the badly trained horses keep coming from and then you meet people like this.

It does my head in.
 
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Great observation Kiwigirl,
This is just what has been happening in this country for too many years and that is why we are going to be like India soon with the horses walking through the streets.

It is some kind of phenomenon that I am still trying to get my mind around and have no way to explain it.

It would be different if there was actually any money in it or a profit to be made.

If you figure it out please let me know.
 

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The best thing of all, these people are now breeding horses and training horses to sell! Doesn't that rip your undies!!


It does my head in.
One of the things I like about this forum is the interesting turns-of-phrase that come from other countries.

I could see these people getting into breeding because you can make up for what you don't know with a fat bank account but training is another thing entirely. I know people (and some on this forum) that think that because they have ridden a horse for the last 2 years that they can know train horses for other people. If they were great at what they do or you could see they had made thier own horses better that would be one thing but they seem to get stumped on the simple things which makes on wonder what they are missing. Some things are so easy to fix that it shouldn't require any help to figure out. How many times have there been post on here about how to get a horse to move forward on a lunge line? If you can't figure some of these things out you need more education.
 

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This last fall I attended a clinic on an invite from a friend and as we sat in the audience a horse was led in by a woman that had owned the horse for about 7 years.
She stated that she had been taking lessons for the entire time and was under the direction of a professional trainer.
Her primary complaint was that the horse would not stand for mounting.
I turned to my friend and whispered "This should be good for about 5 minutes".

Here is a person that paid 200 dollars a day for a 3 day clinic and bless her heart for trying so hard(I really mean that) and the horse was standing quietly in 3 minutes....SOLID!
Now she is one of the good ones because she made a commitment the get help and seek education.
Just think of all the amateurs flailing around messing up horses across the land with partial information gleaned from RFDTV or their girl friend on the Internet.

I know ...everyone has to start somewhere,but that does not mean that you teach yourself how to fly in your back yard because someone gave you a Lear Jet.
 

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The problem with clinics and trainers though is if you are lucky to get really good one. I asked the trainer once to help me out with my paint (yes, I have no shame to look for help if I need it :) ). This guy was recommended to me by several people, he gives clinics and lessons in the Equestrian center, 30 whatever years of experience with horses etc. Well... He couldn't deal with horse himself (not sure he was scared or what) nor he could give any good advise how to deal with the problem (it was trailer issue). I still had to pay him for nothing though. :evil: End result - I asked for the help from another trainer who came out and actually got the job done.
 

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People like that give all the good trainers of the world a bad reputation. I have known people that said "I would leave my horse wild before I send it to a trainer to have them mess it up". Unfortunately, I know too many people like that. There is a guy here in town that is a "trainer" that at the first flick of the tail or stomp of a foot, he is diving for the ground. A friend of mine sent one of her horses to him for 30 days a few years ago and when she got back her supposedly "trained" horse, he ran off with her, she fell, and it **** near killed her.
 

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I always cringe when I come across people like that; especially when it's a child involved...The students I work with are nerve wracking to say the least, as well...they "think" they know how to handle and train a horse, but when you observe what they do, and say "why don't you try this instead?" all you get is a blank stare like "what? how dare you criticise my horsemanship!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think the thing that I have really come to believe- and this is largely because of so many helpful people on this forum, is that a well behaved, respectful horse is not a luxury, it is a requirement. I have also learnt that a well behaved, respectful horse is attainable if you are willing to put in the time and be willing to learn techniques that have been proven to work. It amazes me how people are willing to put up with and even expect a level of bad behaviour from their horse and make no attempt to change that behaviour at all (or more importantly Their own behavior!).

This may sound strange but since I have joined this forum and learned the names of different trainers, researched these people, bought and read books, watched YouTube clips of various trainers, I am now looking at horses and horsemanship in a totally new light. I am learning new things and schooling my horse in different ways, she is getting softer and so well balanced. The difference in my horse in just a couple of months is unbelievable. We did a days stock work yesterday, it had rained the night before so the tracks were very slippery. It was the first time that I felt comfortable riding her on slippery hills, her balance is so much better and I felt like she really knew where her feet were. Even though we did slip and slide it never felt like she was going to lose it and fall over (which she was doing a few months ago). She just feels so collected and I don't know if this is crap but I feel like we are really starting to move together as a team.

My point is that this is the sort of relationship I want with my horse, I love the fact that if I get off my horse to open a gate I can keep the reins looped over her head and she follows me through the gate and waits for me to get back on, I don't have to lead her. Yesterday in the holding pen, I was doing some bits from the ground, setting gates and whatnot, Phoenix plodded around with me for fifteen minutes, I wasn't leading her, she chose to be with me and 'help'. I guess I just can't understand anyone who doesn't want to have this type of relationship with their horse. How can anyone who likes horses not want to have an amazing, mutually satisfying friendship with their horse? Why will some people not do Whatever it takes to achieve a great bond with their horse?

Now that I know how things can be, why would I have it any other way? Why do other people not feel the same way?
 

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That is wonderful Kiwi. I guess I never thought about it like that. I was always fortunate enough to have good horses to ride and I was raised to know what a good horse is (but that comes from living with a good horse trainer). I guess that sometimes I forget that so many kids have no idea what a good horse should behave like, let alone how to get them to behave that way. I am really feeling sorry for that girl now cause she will probably not get the opportunity to learn until after she is grown; if she ever does learn. Poor girl. :(
 

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What your experiencing is called FEEL. Your horse can tell what you want before you have to use the rein alot and bends over backwards to do what you need to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That is wonderful Kiwi. I guess I never thought about it like that. I was always fortunate enough to have good horses to ride and I was raised to know what a good horse is (but that comes from living with a good horse trainer). I guess that sometimes I forget that so many kids have no idea what a good horse should behave like, let alone how to get them to behave that way. I am really feeling sorry for that girl now cause she will probably not get the opportunity to learn until after she is grown; if she ever does learn. Poor girl. :(
Yes that is how I feel too smrobs. Poor girl. Also poor people who have a horse that "just" bites or "just" bucks when they ride with more than two other horses - but thats ok because it could be a lot worse!

Off topic for a moment I have to tell you guys this. I was so proud of Phoenix the other day. We were mustering in cows and calves. The cattle around here are pretty feral at the best of times but start dealing with cows with calves at foot and it gets a bit silly. Anyway, Phoenny and I were pushing the mob through a gate on a dog leg corner, suddenly a very angry black Angus cow breaks out of the mob and charges at us, head down bellowing like a bull. She was far enough away for me to think hmmm what should I do? I decided to leave it up to Phoenny to deal with it. I dropped the reins and sat down hard so I was ready for what ever action she decided on, be it swerve and jump or what ever. Phoenix never moved, she stood and waited for impact the cow crashed into her rump and she let it have both barrels! It was a mighty boot I felt and heard it connect, the cow did a double take and ran back into the mob and Phoenix stood and watched it as if to say "Yeah, you better get back into your place!"

That cow experienced Feel too! The feel of the wrath of Phoenix, I am so proud of her!:lol:
 

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hmm yeah that doesnt sound good...
I mean how old is this girl?
Im only 17, 5ft tall and my parents know squat about horses and my horse is bitey, kickey, rears, wriggles and unties himself! :p (but i love him to death), i brush his bum from the side and his tail, even get the mud off his back feet in this weather, he can complain all he likes, im doing it for his own good!
I have has his now for 3 months (hes my first horse ive owned or looked after). I think that the reason he is the way he is, is the way he was bred, not necessarily his parents (appart from the fact he was bought up by an arab mare), but i think more the way he was weaned, he acts almost like he never got over it, hes stroppy, treats me like a mum (lol) and he'll be 12 this year!
my point is bredding/training make a huge differance to a horses personality.
 

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quote
"that a well behaved, respectful horse is not a luxury, it is a requirement"

"I have also learnt that a well behaved, respectful horse is attainable if you are willing to put in the time and be willing to learn It amazes me how people are willing to put up with and even expect a level of bad behaviour from their horse and make no attempt to change that behaviour at all (or more importantly their own behavior!)."

"I am now looking at horses and horsemanship in a totally new light. I am learning new things and schooling my horse in different ways, she is getting softer and so well balanced".

"........and I felt like she really knew where her feet were" "

"She just feels so collected and I feel like we are really starting to move together as a team"

"My point is that this is the sort of relationship I want with my horse....."

"and she follows me through the gate and waits for me to get back on,
I don't have to lead her ..............".

"she chose to be with me and 'help'. ........................".

"Why will some people not do whatever it takes to achieve a great bond with their horse?......................"

"Why do other people not feel the same way?.............."

unquote

Kiwi Girl, you wrote it, I read it, We all here agree. Great stuff.

A one word comment might be: If you have never eaten caviar, how do you know what it tastes like?

Sadly many horse owners will never get around to comprehending what you have written. Such people keep horse(s) for different reasons - sometimes reasons which are hard to understand. Because a horse can't speak, they don't communicate to the horse and without communication there is no understanding, no bonding, no mutual trust. They don't stroke the horse, nor nuzzle it, nor, dare I say, "kiss" it. They miss so much. But you will not convert such people - either they eventually find their way of their own accord or they won't.

Sadly not every horse will respond to you - which is another matter. We humans seem to think that if we give to the horse, then the horse will give back and some horses simply won't. The horse can be as choosey with its emotions as we humans.

Get the relationship with the horse right and it will be as magical as can be. Sounds as though you are doing well with Phoenny

Barry G.

PS I am not going to try that business of waiting for an angry cow to get close - my DiDi would have been off like a bullet from a gun. Once she sees a pair of horns she thinks Beelzebub is coming to get her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That is a nice post Barry. Looking at all the quotes I hope I don't come across as someone who thinks they are the best horse owner in the world, who has the best horse. I do not want to imply in any way, shape or form that I have a 'magical' relationship with my horse.

What I have is a relationship created by time and a willingness to learn from other people who have more experience than myself. The horse I had before Phoenix was a disaster. He was bred and trained by myself - I was exactly the sort of person I am complaining about in this thread. I ruined a perfectly nice horse with my lack ability. Having said that there were mitigating circumstances surrounding his whole time with me.

The thing is I did learn so very much from the mistakes I made with my other horse I wanted to train another horse. So I bought another horse and have set out to learn and relearn what I need to know to make a good horse. Phoenix has benefited from the mistakes I made with my previous youngster which is a sad irony. The only thing I want to take credit for is that I stopped blaming the horse and took responsibility for it's behaviour, I just wish more people would do the same.

With the world that we live in there is no excuse for people to not be able to find solutions to any problems their horses may have. Just getting on this forum, such a simple thing to do and free to anyone who can read, has been an amazing learning tool for me. Ignorance is no excuse it is just a state of mind for people who are to lazy to think.

While I agree that not every horse will respond in the same way to people I still think it is realistic to expect a relationship based on trust and respect from your horse. You may not get the fripperies of cuddles and kisses but no one should be getting bitten or kicked by a horse, not wanting to be welded to a persons side is one thing, trying to kill and hurt said person is another. A horse can be choosey with its emotions but no person who wants to be around horses should be breeding contempt from them.
 

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I hope I don't come across as someone who thinks they are the best horse owner in the world, who has the best horse. I do not want to imply in any way, shape or form that I have a 'magical' relationship with my horse.
Nobody will think you are snooty. You are simply growing and learning.

There is a saying for people like you and me Kiwi....

"There are 3 types of people in the world: Those that learn by reading, those that learn by observation, and the rest of us just have to **** on that electric fence ourselves."

I went through the same thing with the first horse I trained as you did. I made so many mistakes that, looking back now, were incredibly stupid on my part. Though he did come to me with some issues stemming from abuse, there are things that I did like racing other horses and running everywhere that made him very hot and touchy. I was young and stupid and thought that speed was the most important thing in a horse. I know better now, all thanks to him. He is semi-retired now, even though he is only 16 but if something happens and I need a horse that will dang sure try his heart out for me and is easy to handle (if you know how), he is still there ready for me to throw a saddle on and go.

There probably isn't many people in the world that could successfully ride him due to the way I trained him but I wouldn't change one bit of it. He taught me so much and I know he will have a forever home with me and my family so I don't have to worry about him ending up in a bad situation due to his temperment.
 

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agreed.

Im a huge believer in natural horsemanship, with that being said I haven't had any trainers help with training my three year old but I know of many who would have "forced" progress out of him, but in the end, what would you get? A horse that isnt happy when being worked. All you really need is consistancy and understanding and with both me and my horse are much happier. I never have to force him to do anything because hes willing to do it, because I am kind to him and dont rush him into things he wants to please me.

First when I got him back in October, He could barely be led around because he just didn't understand it, He'd hardly been handled before hand. When we tried to get him on the trailor a fellow horse person was appauled because he wouldnt load and tried to put a chain over his nose and with that Benson acted up because he didnt know what was going on, and with that this guy got fusterated and half ****ed off. But what some people dont get is that getting ****ed off or fusterated, gets you nowhere.
 

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When you start training and riding alot of horses you are lucky to ruin one a little less then the last one untill eventually you start making each horse better than the last one. When you do that you are on the cusp of being a horseman. All it takes then is a lifetime of experience and devotion to learning and refining yourself.



Barry: Nice to hear from you again. Incidently, what does caviar taste like?
 
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