What... is a 'getting up her'? I have no clue what this term means... Mounting?

 

I kinda explained... i mean giving her a whack/hit/smack on the shoulder. you know when you get up somebody, you tell them off etc. yeah well i meant getting up her as in telling her no, that's not right/nice/what I want, by giving her a smack

 

Just saw you're from Australia. I'm a dumb USA girl and didn't get it :lol:
I find that my gelding is a bit dense when it comes to whacking him- usually my hand isn't enough and I just hurt myself more than him. That might be the case. If you have a crop, you could use that- the noise and the sharper effect gains some more attention. She might be fighting for dominance, too- the whole 'how dare you strike me, i'm going to set you straight now!' thing might be from that.

 

ahhaha, yeah our aussie slang :P and yeah, that's what i was thinking, thanks, I was working her before and she did it again, gave her a 'whack' with the end of the lead rope, kind of shocked her a bit :P

I just don't want her to end up being scared of the rope of whenever I lift my hand /: But I guess my safety is a little more important then her being a little flighty, I give her heaps of pats and stuff when shes doing things right, shes pretty smart also, so hopefully she'll get the idea!

 

don't just use the lead rope. if you have a feed bucket in hand use that if you have a crop use that. If you use what ever is available then your good, but the instant you just use one thing she fears that thing and not just your WRATH... i mean correction...

 

I'm laughing at the mental image of a horse being disciplined with a feed bucket :lol: Not that's its a bad idea, it makes perfect sense, but it makes me giggle...

 

I know the feeling- my gelding used to be a biter, and I felt bad thwacking him in the head for it, but it had to be done.
When I'm using a crop with him, I'll take some time to rub him with it, so he can learn that the crop isn't scary, its simply an extension of me and is under MY control. That usually helps.

 

I was confused too. Never heard "get up her" before. Get up ON her? or Get after her, but not get up her.

So, you are saying that when you get after her (scold or discipline ) her for her striking out at you, that she reacts with even more attitude? And it's scary and dangerous, right? Not sweet or cute at all.

I would say that if you have to get after her, do it with the same level she is "dissing" you AND a bit more! So, if she pins her ears only, then something equivilant to that, and a bit more., so like you swish the rope at her to move her over, or give a sharp tap on the shoulder. If she reacts with more "push back" on you, with something like striking out, well, to me that's pretty heavy dissing. I'd meet that with pretty heavy gettin' after her. A serious swat with the whip or the rope end, a powerful yell and what ever it takes to make her jump out of her skin. It has to be memorable, so a nagging "no, bad girl" kind of disciplining will only encourage her to raise her push on you. You go up a little, she goes up to match it, you go up a little she goes up to match it.
You can't match her, you have to go beyond.

However, I dont' mean going ballistic if she just gives you a stink eye. But striking out at you is a major no-no and deserves something closer to ballistic, to me.

 

I've never heard of 'getting after her', we're all so different!

And thanks! That's what I've been doing, It is kinda cute, but really naughty and dangerous! I'll see how she goes, shes a strong, bold, rather stubborn horse, so she won't get timid! Thanks again.

 

sounds like she is lacking in the ground manners:-( Does she back up off the lead? When she is into something or doing something you want her to stop,don't smack her.Pick up the lead get her attention & back her up a few steps & have her stand quiet & not move from the space you put her in.If she moves off without you asking stop her repeat the process back her up a few steps,stop expect her to stand quiet.Repeat as necessary until she clues in, stays & stands quiet when you tell her.

 

Yes, she sure is, hasn't been handled much + her personality! I have quite a horse on my hands!

It's mainly the striking out that I smack her with cause it could be dangerous, when she isn't standing still or off in lala land I sometimes give her a tap on the chest, or yeah, back her up and make her stand, after she stands then we mosey on our way! Thanks though!

 

She was previously abused, so keep in mind that she associates getting in trouble or doing something you don't like, with being abused. So when you "get up her" she is probably reacting the way she is because she is EXPECTING to be beaten. She just needs to learn that when you say no, it doesn't mean she'll be abused. Eventually she will gain trust, and I am willing to bet that ear pinning and striking out will stop. Remember to be patient and understanding- she isn't like any 'ol horse. She needs to understand that all people aren't monsters.
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I think the ear pinning and striking out is her "fight" response (as in fight or flight) when she feels threatened. She's afraid, and that's why she's doing it.

Just what I would consider anyways. Makes sense to me. Poor girl is very confused
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when you 'get up' your horse, do you have an objective? other than 'telling her that's not right'? because if so, that is a form of positive punishment. and positive punishment negatively reinforces behaviour like that in most cases.

the only reason people get away with positive punishment is because it (usually) 'distracts' the horse from what it was doing that was wrong by our standards, then negatively reinforces the act of being distracted from doing the wrong thing. so in fact positive punishment does not work and it is inadvertant negative reinforcment. and because positive punishment is usually consistent (the handler usually always uses the same punishment for misbehaviours, in your case a smack on the shoulder) the horse learns to ignore it pretty quickly, because it negatively reinforces different things each time.

so with that in mind, if you give the horse 1 smack and it pins it's ears and kicks you, and you don't continually smack it in the same place untill it stops kicking you or pinning it's ears, you are teaching it to kick and pin it's ears.

i suppose an easy way of describing the solution would be to punish (so to speak) her, for punishing you, for punishing her. and consistently do that untill you win. because that's all anything is with horses, winning/losing the game of pressure/release, you just have to be 100% aware of that every single time you interact with your horse and your 90% of the way to having a wonderful respectful well performing horse

it truly is a case of "the beatings will continue untill morale improves" though i don't suggest you beat your horse.

 

Wow that's fantastic! thanks heaps, I do 100% agree with you. I will never beat any of my horses or animals, or anything!
But if they don't get told whats right they won't know whats wrong and with a 500kg horse it could be extremely dangerous!

I smack her once either on the shoulder, neck or barrel when she strikes out the first time, the 2nd time I've either been smacking her with the lead rope and turning her in a tight circle around me, depending where I am. So thank you, and I'll make sure I don't end up teaching her a Que to pin her ears back and strike!

 

yeah, thanks heaps SarahAnn! I'll definitely keep that in mind, I also have another previously 'abused' horse, and she is terrified of everything, if you get up her she will practically die inside a little. but she is an Arab, so a lot more flighty etc. Mim (the new horse that fights back) is so different !

 

You are correcting her with a variety of methods,so nothing is consistent:?.Smacking her when she strikes out only escalates her behavior & more of just a reactionary spank back:-(.A firm non threatening & consistent,method of "no" is more effective.Hence the suggestion about backing & making her stand in her space{like the kid in the corner}.Have her stand there till she can be quiet & respect your space & move only when you give her permission.This should be for more than just a minute or 2. Any time she inattentive/ disrespects the ground rules,she needs correction using a consistent method of "no".

 

You are correcting her with a variety of methods,so nothing is consistent:?.Smacking her when she strikes out only escalates her behavior & more of just a reactionary spank back:-(.A firm consistent,method of "no" is more effective.Hence the suggestion about backing & making her stand in her space{like the kid in the corner}.Have her stand there till she can be quiet & respect your space & move only when you give her permission.This should be for more than just a minute or 2. Any time she inattentive/ disrespects the ground rules,she needs correction using a consistent method of "no".

hermm, I do agree, but it's a little difficult, shes rather stubborn, and she does stay away from my personal space when I want her to, and shes quite cuddly, when I want her to be. I do have a voice Que - ah ah - in a mean deapish voice, my other horses no it very well!! soon as I say it, the one that knows shes doing something wrong will stop what ever she was doing, like stealing the other horses feed!

I would do the back up thing, but for her, I don't think she will realise that she can't get up me cause she want's to go over there... if you get me.

 

I used to have a QH like that. Unfortunately she didn't learn to stop kicking at me (which she did while saddling, grooming, etc) until I started kicking her back. I hated doing it, but no matter how much I smacked her, whacked her with a crop, etc etc, she just kept doing it. I would jab her in the gut with my toe. Only hard enough that she realized I kicked her, but not really hard enough to do damage. After about a week of my toe in her belly every time she kicked, she got the message and then every time she picked up her foot to kick, I'd pick up mine and then she would quickly slam hers back down on the ground. Pretty soon she didn't even bother to think about it anymore. She would still pin her ears to let me know she was displeased, but she didn't dare kick.

 

Cinnnys Whinny - wow, thanks, lucky Mim isn't that bad... but if all else fails, I might try something like that. /:

 

Yeah, it's more or less of a shock to them, even if you don't do it hard. I remember the first time I did it, she turned and looked at me in disbelief, as if to say "did you just kick me back?" and then kicked again just to make sure. She got the toe again and looked at me like "you did! I can't believe it!"

I guess they expect it from each other when they are turned out or whatnot, but they don't expect us humans to do to them what they do to each other to put each other in their places.

 

I, personally, prefer the "kicking back" method. I've been kicked at by a few horses (food aggression, one that was just..rude with no ground manners as soon as the lead came off, and one that was never taught it was wrong). I haven't been able to catch the second one (since she's obviously faster than me and I don't have a lead on her when she does it), but the one with food aggression learnt after one incident and I'm the only one she won't even pin her ears to during feed time. All I was doing was raking a pile of poop from around a full round bale in the barn and she kicked at me. I have to say, I didn't even think about it, I just reacted. If she hadn't moved away after her kick and miss, she would've gotten my boot near her loin, but she got a nice kick to the hip from me.
The last one, that was never taught, ended up with a fist to his girth area because it was the quickest place I could get to him to reprimand him. He learned after awhile with either a fist or foot to him he wasn't allowed to do that kind of crap. He was turning into a nice horse while I was leasing him, but he's gone from the barn now.
Lucky (current project) has not even thought about kicking at me, but she use to kick at every other horse she could get near, and she'd get a kick from me to her side (a bit farther behind the girth) with my foot out of the stirrup and decently hard with my heel turned up (so that the edge of my boot and not just my leg would get her). She's an angel on trail rides and has no problem with another horse up her butt, and much better at shows. Bigger shows are still a slight issue, but I'll be working on that next year as long as she isn't sold.

Overall, I feel that kicking back gives you a little more advantage over the horse, as even your leg (let alone your arm) still doesn't even come close to the strength in their legs, but your leg is much stronger than your arm in terms of force it can use.
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I, personally, prefer the "kicking back" method. I've been kicked at by a few horses (food aggression, one that was just..rude with no ground manners as soon as the lead came off, and one that was never taught it was wrong). I haven't been able to catch the second one (since she's obviously faster than me and I don't have a lead on her when she does it), but the one with food aggression learnt after one incident and I'm the only one she won't even pin her ears to during feed time. All I was doing was raking a pile of poop from around a full round bale in the barn and she kicked at me. I have to say, I didn't even think about it, I just reacted. If she hadn't moved away after her kick and miss, she would've gotten my boot near her loin, but she got a nice kick to the hip from me.
The last one, that was never taught, ended up with a fist to his girth area because it was the quickest place I could get to him to reprimand him. He learned after awhile with either a fist or foot to him he wasn't allowed to do that kind of crap. He was turning into a nice horse while I was leasing him, but he's gone from the barn now.
Lucky (current project) has not even thought about kicking at me, but she use to kick at every other horse she could get near, and she'd get a kick from me to her side (a bit farther behind the girth) with my foot out of the stirrup and decently hard with my heel turned up (so that the edge of my boot and not just my leg would get her). She's an angel on trail rides and has no problem with another horse up her butt, and much better at shows. Bigger shows are still a slight issue, but I'll be working on that next year as long as she isn't sold.

Overall, I feel that kicking back gives you a little more advantage over the horse, as even your leg (let alone your arm) still doesn't even come close to the strength in their legs, but your leg is much stronger than your arm in terms of force it can use.
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Thanks! Made me think of a pack of wild horses, how to dominate mare is boss, she beats the crap out of them when there miss behaving, or tells them to go away.

 

When it comes to striking, kicking and biting, that's when I go into, "I am the biggest BAD AZZ you will ever meet and I AM GOING TO EAT YOU!" mode. Rarely have to correct a horse for any of that more than twice. They get hit with a rope, crop, whip, bucket thrown at them, chased away and backed all the way to TX if that's what it takes. It's a total lack of respect and challenge for top position and you need to basically become the Alpha herd mate by telling her that if she challenges you one more time you will KILL her. (You have about 3 seconds after the strike or kick to make a believer out of her, after that you're just making yourself feel better.) Her herd leader will do all that in a heartbeat if she 'gets up him/her' even once.

It's kind of funny, once you get used to being around mares and see their body language with each other, especially the EARS, when you get mad you'll swear that you can feel your ears lay flat back on your neck! LOL! What's even funnier is when I get mad and my husband swears he can see them.

 

hahhaha, hahahhahhaa, that's funny!! glad it works, I do need to be more of a alpha mare :P I have 6 mares and 3 geldings, and the mares are crazy mean to each other!

 

Ah, I worked with a dreadful horse like this. He wasn't mine, but he stayed in the same pasture as my horse and the owner gave me permission to do whatever with him. He didn't get mad when you mounted him for the first time, but if you wanted to get off during the trail ride, forget about it. It came to the point where the owner would not get off the horse for anything, until the ride was completely over as he threw such a huge fit if you tried to mount him after getting off. It was a complete pain in the butt. I mean he was bad, he kicked, pinned his ears, striked out, and bit you, while all at the same time moving in circles. And/or tried to jump towards you to step on your feet. His kicks weren't easy, lol, they were full on death kicks.

I got irritated at seeing the horse keep doing this, and having his owner back off every time, and then finally give up, so I messed with him.

When I got up the first time, he was fine. So I slid off (I was doing this bareback) and tried to jump on again, he of course flipped out, tried kicking, and when he kicked out, as soon as his foot was back in place I kicked him hard(ish) on that leg. I tried again, he tried again, I kicked again. Finally I got on again without any kicking and slid off, I got on and off, on and off, kicking basically the whole time until I could get on and off without him moving a muscle. Kick back

 

hahaha, far out!! what a nasty horse, glad you got into him and fixed him up!