[Muppetgirl]

I dont know that I am comfortable labeling anyone a hoarder or backyard breeder.
I think that a hoarder is probably emotionally fragile or unstable.. I see it as an illness not a character flaw. Using the term hoarder IMO is dismissing the underlying problem that can probably be treated. It also highlights the ignorance most of us have about mental illness.
I do think with the advent of the internet, which by the way I am still stuck in the 20th century, a lot of people are reaching out and becoming more aware of the abuse and neglect of animals. That imo is a great thing. Shalom

I'm definitely comfortable labeling someone as a hoarder.....there is someone in my life who is a hoarder, she has managed to fill 6000sq/ft of space with all manner of junk, it's all organized and tidy, it covers the stairs, you can't enter rooms.......when the family comes to stay....they all (sometimes 10 people) stay with me in my three bedroom house...because this woman (and her husband) in a matter of five years have managed to fill every single bedroom in that house with gum wrappers, newspapers, cereal boxes etc.......this hoarding issue is one of the most selfish things people can do. Her grandchildren don't see her because she is too busy clipping coupons and buying junk at thrift stores while pleading poverty.....there is thousands and thousands of dollars worth of stuff in that house....this has been a very big bone of contention amongst family members and has nearly driven people to divorce.

Hoarding is a very very SELFISH condition.

From experience........

 

[alexischristina]

I don't like using the term hoarder in a thread like this- these people aren't hoarders (for the most part) so much as they are ignorant bleeding hearts. As has been said before, these people think they're doing these horses a favour by 'rescuing' them, but they're ignorant and don't realize they're doing more harm than good. In many cases if someone were to approach them and give them the information they needed I do think you would see a change in their behaviour. There is, imo, a difference between that and 'hoarding'. I DO know a 'family' (although it is just one member of the family) who I (from what I know, maybe DB can give some input here) would classify as hoarders. The number of horses they own is in the twenties (or more) all mares are bred, even if it means sneaking them in with their studs. Horses are bought to be 'resold' but they cannot bring themselves to let go of them, so they are put to pasture and another is brought to 'rehome' to continue the cycle. Hay will be bought before the necessities for their children, but even then they get the bare minimum, horses have died in the pasture and not been discovered for weeks or months. People have kept their horses at the farm, and not been able to get them back.

These are well educated horse people, and that is what I would call animal hoarding. They do the same with dogs, the number of dogs on their property is in the double digits, and while I have never been in their house I do suspect it's a similar situation inside. THAT is what I would call 'hoarding'.

 

[waresbear]

Okay, at a proper computer keyboard now, I can relate the horse hoarding I know of personally. About 30 years, this lady was young, successful in AQHA showing & training, and had champion horses, and was making big bucks training, breeding & selling Quarter Horses. She and another lady decided to go into business together & bought an equestrian center up north from the lower mainland where land prices are much cheaper. Then horses prices fell, quite a bit, she kept her top dollar price tags and kept breeding, the equestrian centre needed a new well, new roof and major repair to the house on the property. Her business partner & her had a major falling out & left. Between that time and to about 15 years ago, I don't know what took place but I heard rumors here & there. The lady, I will call her T, took a job at the same place I work, great, I knew her from shows & I got along with her.
She knew my daughter was looking for a new horse, so she invited us out to her place to look at some horses of hers that she said would be suitable. After the ranch tour, I almost vomited. She had 6 stallions (former showhorses) in stalls with hugely overgrown hooves that she said had not been outside in over 10 years, she exercised them daily in the indoor arena (only longe, she doesn't ride anymore because she has a bad back), at least she said she did. She had about 10 two year old uncut colts in a rickety corral that wouldn't hold an old decrepid nag, never mind a herd of colts, which looked like unthrifty, wormy yearlings. All the fencing was falling down, or had fell down in individual paddocks, her pasture, which was her main herd's saving grace is about 75 acres with a creek, she ran about 30 mares & a few geldings on that land. All the pasture horses looked like they self trimmed their own hooves and were quite fat as the grass was quite lush at that time, most weren't ever halter trained. She grabbed one gelding from the herd, a 9 yr old, and said he was the horse for my daughter, greenbroke, huge ugly scar on his leg, but he was a nice looking horse, she wants $5000 for this horse because he was out of this champion or that champion or some bloodline, I forget. My daughter said as she was interested in showing, she really didn't want such a scarred up horse but she pointed to a shiny mare in the herd & said "She is pretty, has she been handled at all?" T replied, "No not yet, I want $10,000 for her, you can't replace her bloodlines"....or some such nonsense as that. She took us up to her barn appartment above the indoor arena (the house on the property was condemned & 1/2 torn down) to show us the papers on some horse, when we walked in I almost fainted, she was a hoarder!!! Filthy, clutter, cats, dogs, one eyed cats, one eyed dogs, feces, urine, I had to get out of there, now! We made our excuses & got the hell out of Dodge never to return again, my daughter was so mad at me for subjecting her to that.
We still worked at the same place together and winter came around, her water froze, I asked her how she was watering the horses, she said she hauled water out to them in her truck. I doubt that, she was the laziest thing going, around work, her clothes stunk, her hair was greasy. Since I was her boss, I told her to go have a shower before work (I work at a hotel with a pool, she can shower in the pool changing rooms), and make sure her clothes for work are washed by housekeeping and stay here and don't take them home. She agreed and complied. Somehow, she found a few people to board at her place, but one boarder came to talk to her while I was working and was mad, said their horses had no water and stalls hadn't been cleaned since they did it. She lost her boarders. Someone casually asked her about riding lessons as she used to teach, she quoted them a rate of $75 per session, using their own horse! Sorry, but you couldn't pay me $75 to go to her place again, never mind ride there!
Spring rolls around again, of course those ungelded colts all broke out & were breeding the mares, and she had no idea what was in foal or not. Her neighbor who I casually know, helped her bury a mare that laid down between two trees to foal & died. The coyotes were eating the foal that was half out of the dead mare! Then she tells me her mother is eating dogfood to pay the morgage on her place and she has no life outside her job & chores because every penny she has is spent on the horses, she said she makes great sacrifices for them. That was about all I could handle, I finally had to say something. I called her a selfish b*tch, and told her to call the SPCA to give all those horses away and sell her property and stay away from horses. NO, her horses were worth hundreds of thousands of dollars with irreplaceable bloodlines! I told her GOOD, THEN SELL SOME SO YOUR MOTHER CAN STOP EATING DOGFOOD! She was insulted (whatever!) and said she was going to get her brother to buy half interest in the equestrian centre.
Shortly after that, she got fired so I haven't seen her since but her neighbor keeps us informed. The SPCA seized 10 stallions from her barn, so I guess she added 4 more to the 6 I saw. The horses in the pasture were left. She lets people take the obviously pregnant mares, or mares with foals, and keep them until the foals are weaned, they keep the foals & give the mares back to her. Most of the those mare are emaciated when they arrive but are returned back to her in good flesh, so she figured out how to circumvent some problems. There is an old talkative farmer that delivers her roundbales that told me a story about her. He said all her horses are pretty skinny during the winter & they have no water, the creek is frozen so they eat snow and he doesn't put the roundbales out in the pasture, she wants them dumped outside the fence, she pitchforks off of it to them. He said there is no way that little amount of hay he sells her is anywhere near enough for all the horses she has. He saw a little skin & bones filly shivering off to the side and out of pity he asked her if she was for sale. Yes, but of course this filly has rare, irreplaceable bloodlines and $3000 is the price. He told me he laughed & said to her "That's for all the horses and the property too, right?"
So there's my experience with a horse hoarder and it still makes me ill thinking about it.

 

[Muppetgirl]

Wares - that is an example of just how selfish and self serving hoarding is....sad story Thanks for sharing.

 

[Celeste]

Anyone that keeps more animals than they have the time, money, and energy to take care of is a hoarder. I have seen it with dogs, cats, goats, horses, birds, and combinations of all of these. They have animals in filthy, half starved conditions.

On the other hand, I remember going to a lovely cattle farm. The owner enjoyed owning a lot of birds. He had an ostrich, peafowl, chickens, ducks, geese, guineas, and I am not sure what all else. There were several hundred birds. The place was really clean and all the birds were well fed and in good condition and appeared to be happy. He knew the history and lineage of each bird and took great pride in showing them off. This is not what I consider hoarding.

To me, you could be a pet hoarder if you only had 3 pets. Hoarding is having more pets than you can take care of.

 

[dbarabians]

Hoarding can be a sign of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or a number of other mental health issues. Extremely low self esteem for one.
Like i said their is usually a mental disorder that underlies the behavior. Treat the disorder and the behavior can be modified.
slapping a label on someone does not change or address the condition that precludes the action.
A reasonable person would never place themselves or their animals in such a stressed enviroment without asking for help. Healthy well adjusted inviduals do not do this. Shalom

 

[waresbear]

You can't be healthy & well adjusted living in animal urine & feces. You will get sick, physically & in the head.

 

[Cat]

We are a society of labels and its how we identify things - including problems like hoarding. Yes - there can be underlying causes and mental illness involved, but it is still hoarding. Since most of us are not professional psychiatrist - it is not our job to change, address, or treat the issue. However, since we DO have the label of hoarder and most of society understands a similar definition of it - we can use the term to describe situations plaguing our country and if its effecting a friend/family member - identify the symptom and either confront or try to get them help if possible.

I think part of the problem in this day and age is everyone wants to be PC and not step on any toes.

 

[JaphyJaphy]

I see it a lot in less extreme cases than the one wares has described. Recently, I was offered a wild yearling filly who had been rounded up with the rest of her herd and auctioned off by the government. For some reason, this filly had been separated from the rest of her herd and was being "sold" privately. The woman who offered her to me said she'd give her to me for free since she knew I'd provide a good home.

I agreed to go look at the filly, but before I did a neighbor called me up and says she saw the filly advertised and asked if I was still planning to go take a look at her. I said yes, and the neighbor kept mentioning her interest in the filly (and seemed to be fishing for something...) so I told her I wouldn't be offended if she went to look at her and decided to take her before I had seen her. The next day, the filly had been moved to her place. Literally a week later, I overheard the neighbor saying that she needed to go out of town with her mom because she didn't have enough money to pay for her own groceries if she stayed home alone. That being said, her animals always seem reasonably well cared for, thank goodness!

 

[Shoebox]

I will admit that when we bought Clementine and Levi - I had absolutely NO horse experience. Didn't know how to pick a hoof, how to tack up. We leased first, for a month, before buying. I am VERY glad that she was kept at the stable, getting food and water and whatnot, because I didn't know ANYTHING.

In the next week I spent HOURS looking up every single thing I could about horses. Days, even. All of my spare time went to looking things up, renting library books. I know impulsively buying animals is stupid, and I was bound to NOT be that person hwo neglects their animal because of it. I soaked up everything I could. There is SO MUCH to know. I had to learn everything - that they needed their hooves trimmed often, their teeth floated, their sheath cleaned, to be wormed, vaccinated in spring, that they are generally walking accidents waiting to happen.

I had to learn how to own a horse. How to train, how to ride. Everything. All by myself. (Okay, I took two lessons from a 17 year old girl. lol). Horse behavior, horse health. Signs of wellness and sickness. The delicate issue of respect between horse and rider.

You know what? I'm STILL learning. I learn new things often - thank god for this forum. Horses are SO MUCH more work than anybody would expect. More than I ever expected. I DID go into it thinking, oh how nice it'll be to have a horse to ride. I got on her the first time and was so happy that she was a good broke horse (HAHAHA.... yeah, not really). I hate that I went into this so blind, and I don't recommend it for anybody - and I'll be the first to sell her if I ever can't take care of her or afford her - we already sold Levi.

This is the problem. People who do what I did, and DON'T bother to look things up. People who go into it with the "a nice pony to ride" mentality and just kind of wing it. And then, because the horse doesn't die, they get another because the first one is still alive and kicking and seemingly well. And maybe another. And then, after everything starts piling up - horses going lame because their hooves are shot, horses losing weight because their teeth are tearing sores in their mouths, horses so bloated with worms that they aren't getting any nutrition - then they decide to try to hide it. Quick fixes, or breed them to sell the foals to get the money to keep them. Deny that it's that big of a deal because LOOK, they're still walking around!

Then there are the people who just buy them and breed them to make a 'quick buck' without any care for the horses at all. People suck - there will ALWAYS be those people. And I almost think that the reason it's so prevalent now is not necessarily because it's more common (though I'm sure it is to an extent, just look at how many free horses you can get on Craigslist) but you hear about it more. Social media makes it easy for stories like that to blow up instead of remaining hidden in someone's backyard.

It's always happened, and it always will. The only thing we can do is to NOT contribute to the problem, and call the ASPCA when necessary.

 

[dbarabians]

People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom

 

[Shoebox]

People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom

Yes, animal hoarders are different from the people who just collect horses (or whatever animal) for some ulterior motive and completely neglect their animals. I do think hoarders need help, but I don't think OP was really talking about 'hoarders' in the true sense of the word. A hoarder feels like they are truly helping save the world, one animal at a time, often to the detriment of themselves.

Of course, OP, do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dbarabians]

I am a mental health professional I make no apologies for that. I dont think the OP was doing anything but starting a conversation. a much needed and very interesting one. i am not trying to argue just giving my two cents worth.
All horse owners need to recognize and try to intervene if they suspect neglect or unhealthy conditions.
We all suffer from the publicity hoarders receive on the evening news. Especially those of us who own more than a few horses.
i have been called a hoarder because I have purchased or taken in abused or neglected animals to either end their suffering or rehabilitate and find a more suitable home for them..
Called one in fact by the two people I refused to sell a horse to. Shalom

 

[FeatheredFeet]

Correct me if I am wrong Donald, but I think hoarders of 'stuff/things' are different from hoarders of animals.

The 'stuff' collectors, fill up their homes, shed, property etc., with things they never use and often never see it again, as it adds to the piles. It makes them feel secure maybe. Protects them in a way, from the outside world.

With animal hoarders, I think there is a different mind-set. The hoarder truly thinks he/she is saving animals. Saving from a worse fate than they offer. Thinking nobody else can or will, look after them as they do - even though in most cases, the animals are living in less than desirable conditions and would be better off in another home. Long after things are out of control, they still take in more animals and even allow their supposed rescues, to breed indiscriminately.

In both cases, it certainly becomes a sickness, even though it might have started quite innocently. By what I've seen, it is not particularly sex related either. Both men and women seem similarly affected.

Lizzie

 

[demonwolfmoon]

People who are hoarders in the true sense of the word need treatment not condemnation.
Now I am not trying to enforce some idea of being politically correct. I am though trying to give some insight into the problem.
For the most part these are not evil people. They do however need treatment and understanding without those two things this problem will only grow.
yes it is horrible for the animals and humans involved.
Any discussion of the problem without all the facts is pointless. Shalom

I know that you are a mental health professional, but being raised by two people with various MH conditions, I have my own possibly skewed perspective.

Do they need help? Certainly. Will they go get it? In at least my experience, MOST OF THE TIME, NO.

And that is the problem. You have to be willing at some point to get help. We can't do it for them.

Guess what? You can't get someone treatment if they refuse it, unless they're a danger to themselves or others. Do I have that right? So my mom takes care of my crazy aunt, who is "fine' to live outside, until she stops taking her meds, then as far as I know, she has to be periodically put right back in the hospital, whether it is the Balboa Navy hospital or wherever else she goes. And my mom, no saint herself, isn't privvy to all of the info because my aunt is an adult. Last I heard, she was trying to be put as a caretaker of my aunt...she fullfulls that position anyway, but just doesn't get paid for it.

Guess what? That woman made my childhood/young adulthood a LIVING HELL. Do I have a certain sympathy that chemicals in her head made her do mean, hateful things to a kid? Yes. Do I have certain sympathy that she can't always control what she does, and thinks people are spying on her? Sure...but somewhere in there, at some point there had to have been the thought "hm, maybe this is messed up". I mean, who has like four dogs, god knows how many cats, six guinea pigs, turtles, rats and god knows that else in a one bedroom condo, all windows sealed, blankets over those and tacked shut so the neighbors "can't see in" and thinks that is normal? Do you have any idea what that smells like? I mean, how many times do you allow your niece/sister or whoever step in dog crap in the bathroom hallway because you think it's ok for your pitbull to go indoors like a yorkie, but you're too lazy (and yes, it was lazy) to clean it up? (Oh yeah, dogs weren't allowed outside either....the neighbors might see them...X_X).

At SOME point there was a little voice, or a loud voice that said, this isn't right.

How many times do the animals get taken away before the hoarder thinks "maybe I'm wrong?"...but it's always someone else's fault right? The neighbor, the evil jerk who called animal control or whatever.

So yeah, maybe I'm biased, but I feel more for the animal, who has no say in the circumstances...of that lady Ware mentioned, the one I "bought" Strider from, and even my messed up Family. They may have started with good intentions, but it unraveled...and every time someone suggests a solution it's shot down repeatedly.

I give everyone a chance, and I tried to help my family, but at some point, the humans must choose to help themselves--we can't do it for them!...and my sympathy lies with those who *cannot* change their situation--the animal.

/rant and Sorry if I take it a bit personally. =/

ETS: just to make it clear, the house was also filled with books and other items "in case the world goes Blooey", aka "when the rapture occurs". So think piles of books taller than my head, stashes of bathing items that will never get used, peed on clothes etc. I have pictures of the stove, aka, the litterbox somewhere, as well as the conditions the turtles were kept in...every few years when I forget I took those pics, I go through stuff to scan for FB or whatever and they surprise me =/ UGH

now end rant ..again...

 

[Muppetgirl]

I know that you are a mental health professional, but being raised by two people with various MH conditions, I have my own possibly skewed perspective.

Do they need help? Certainly. Will they go get it? In at least my experience, MOST OF THE TIME, NO.

And that is the problem. You have to be willing at some point to get help. We can't do it for them.

Guess what? You can't get someone treatment if they refuse it, unless they're a danger to themselves or others. Do I have that right? So my mom takes care of my crazy aunt, who is "fine' to live outside, until she stops taking her meds, then as far as I know, she has to be periodically put right back in the hospital, whether it is the Balboa Navy hospital or wherever else she goes. And my mom, no saint herself, isn't privvy to all of the info because my aunt is an adult. Last I heard, she was trying to be put as a caretaker of my aunt...she fullfulls that position anyway, but just doesn't get paid for it.

Guess what? That woman made my childhood/young adulthood a LIVING HELL. Do I have a certain sympathy that chemicals in her head made her do mean, hateful things to a kid? Yes. Do I have certain sympathy that she can't always control what she does, and thinks people are spying on her? Sure...but somewhere in there, at some point there had to have been the thought "hm, maybe this is messed up". I mean, who has like four dogs, god knows how many cats, six guinea pigs, turtles, rats and god knows that else in a one bedroom condo, all windows sealed, blankets over those and tacked shut so the neighbors "can't see in" and thinks that is normal? Do you have any idea what that smells like? I mean, how many times do you allow your niece/sister or whoever step in dog crap in the bathroom hallway because you think it's ok for your pitbull to go indoors like a yorkie, but you're too lazy (and yes, it was lazy) to clean it up? (Oh yeah, dogs weren't allowed outside either....the neighbors might see them...X_X).

At SOME point there was a little voice, or a loud voice that said, this isn't right.

How many times do the animals get taken away before the hoarder thinks "maybe I'm wrong?"...but it's always someone else's fault right? The neighbor, the evil jerk who called animal control or whatever.

So yeah, maybe I'm biased, but I feel more for the animal, who has no say in the circumstances...of that lady Ware mentioned, the one I "bought" Strider from, and even my messed up Family. They may have started with good intentions, but it unraveled...and every time someone suggests a solution it's shot down repeatedly.

I give everyone a chance, and I tried to help my family, but at some point, the humans must choose to help themselves--we can't do it for them!...and my sympathy lies with those who *cannot* change their situation--the animal.

/rant and Sorry if I take it a bit personally. =/

ETS: just to make it clear, the house was also filled with books and other items "in case the world goes Blooey", aka "when the rapture occurs". So think piles of books taller than my head, stashes of bathing items that will never get used, peed on clothes etc. I have pictures of the stove, aka, the litterbox somewhere, as well as the conditions the turtles were kept in...every few years when I forget I took those pics, I go through stuff to scan for FB or whatever and they surprise me =/ UGH

now end rant ..again...

Agree agree agree......and unfortunately for myself and some immediate family members we are being left with the inanimate object 'hoard' (junk) when these people pass on.....because they don't want help when its offered, don't ask for help when its needed and don't seek help when they cannot enter a room and you sure as hell don't mention the 100 telephone books from 1970-2010 down in the basement.

That's all I have to say about hoarders and the way they affect other people and animals.......

People should collect memories......not stuff.

 

[Shoebox]

Agree agree agree......and unfortunately for myself and some immediate family members we are being left with the inanimate object 'hoard' (junk) when these people pass on.....because they don't want help when its offered, don't ask for help when its needed and don't seek help when they cannot enter a room and you sure as hell don't mention the 100 telephone books from 1970-2010 down in the basement.

That's all I have to say about hoarders and the way they affect other people and animals.......

People should collect memories......not stuff.

The problem for these people so often - My grandmother was one - is that stuff IS memories. At least in the sense of object hoarding.

 

[DuckDodgers]

Anyone that keeps more animals than they have the time, money, and energy to take care of is a hoarder. I have seen it with dogs, cats, goats, horses, birds, and combinations of all of these.

To me, you could be a pet hoarder if you only had 3 pets. Hoarding is having more pets than you can take care of.

Agreed. Some folks have the time, money, and resources for 6 horses, 5 dogs, and 12 cats on their property and everyone gets the care that they need. Most people would be overwhelmed by that amount, but some people can't handle caring for two cats. Either way, the results are the same for the animals regardless of how many are stuck in the unfortunate situation.

My barn manager isn't an animal hoarder, but she is a good example of not knowing how much is too much. She is always complaining about the amount of work she has to do around the barn every day and how she barely makes enough money to make the job worth it (she has another job at another barn during the day as well). Out of the 16 occupied stalls in the barn, however, 6 of them are hers or her sister's and bring in no money. I think each of them also have at least a couple of horses at their own houses. She almost never finds the time or inclination to ride any of these horses, so just lets people around the barn ride them. One of them is her elderly QH gelding who would never be sold, and the rest are various giveaways or rescues. One was a horse that my friend got that didn't work out (a bucker), so she took him in. Another was one that the barn owner tried for his daughter and didn't work out, but the barn manager felt sorry for him and took him. Then there's the OTTB that I've been riding, and his owners were just trying to find someone to give him away to so he would have a good home. One's a usually lame guy whose history I don't know, but I think it's a similar situation. The last is actually a very well-trained cutting mare who would be a fantastic riding horse, but she is just sitting around.

And... these are just the horses in the stalls. There are others out in the pasture that belong to her as well. Then there are a number of boarding horses whose owners do not pay full board for various reasons. She always complains about all of the work that she has to do, barely making enough after buying gas and feed, but never seems to realize that most of the horses out there are either hers or their owners are barely covering their own feed bill. All of her horses definitely receive all of the basic care they need and adequate feed, but things such as shoeing get put off far longer than I would like. Teeth floating rarely happens out there for her horses. While things such as worming and vaccinations are covered, I can't help but wonder what would happen if one of her horses were to have a sudden expensive bill, such as an illness or injury. I admire her concern for the horses in need, but I wish that she would realize that it's in her best interests to downsize her herd to either reduce her workload, or to replace those horses with ones who are actually "earning their keep".

I do understand that it is completely her decision. Especially this time of year she is well within her rights to complain about things in her life. Everyone does. She's obviously aware that her horses are nothing but a money drain on her, but still feels the need to keep them and they get basic care. Some such as the lame horse and the bucker would likely have nowhere to go but the killers. It just wouldn't be right to send her elderly gelding off to the highest bidder. However, no one can doubt that it would be in her best interests to have fewer horses under her own care. Even if just a couple of them were gone she could find that she has more cash and time to actually ride the remaining horses!

 

[dbarabians]

Lizzie there are different reasons people hoard both animals and items.
I only wish there was a simple solution. Sadly as demonwolf and muppetgirl can testify animals and people in relationships with the hoarder also suffer.
I feel for both of these young women.
They both have a right to be angry and I dont blame them. Not one bit.
Mental health issues are so misunderstood by most that the shame and guilt felt by family members often goes unresolved.
Demonwolf and Muppetgirl I hope each of you continues to recover from the less than joyful childhood you seem to have experienced. I wish both of you only the best.
This has been a very important discussion. One free of hostility and stimulating.
Animal hoarders involve innocent creatures that should have been lived a better healthier life. IMO that contributes to the anger directed at the hoarder. It also adds to the misconceptions about the illness. Shalom

 

[Muppetgirl]

This has happened to me in adulthood not childhood....I didn't even know what hoarding was until I helped these people move house and I entered the basement and innocently said 'gee there's lots of stuff' and I nearly got a new ear hole chewed for saying it......I married into it.....my own mother probably owned four cooking pots when I was growing up......the lady that hoards has about 35.......probably more.....it makes me angry that they don't see how it affects others and they seemingly care much more about 'things' than they do others....