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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
If I were you I’d use static guard or in some way try to minimize the static.
Then I’d work on getting her to trust me touching her nose WITHOUT her being tied up. If she backs away from you, don’t get mad and make her back more. In her mind “I’m backing away from danger and you want me to go farther and faster?” Let her move away. Things are much less frightening if they feel like they CAN get away. Start just putting your hand CLOSE to her nose. If she acts completely overwhelmed, take your hand away regardless of if she’s running scared or not. If they’re just too scared they simply can’t process. Turn your back towards her and lead her forward a few steps. Her thoughts “oh she’s not trying to kill me”. Once she can keep things together a bit more (fine if she’s moving but not running scared) just move with her, keeping your hand close to her nose until her feet slow down, her eyes soften, or her head drops. Once she figures that out, keep your hand close to her nose until she stops. Once she stays stopped, rub it ever so softly and lead her around for a few minutes to give her a chance to process. Then just build on that. Once you gain her trust back, try as hard as you can to not betray that trust. Only after she’s good when not tied up, tie her up and repeat.
Thank you so much for laying it all out! I'll definitely work on that. I hadn't been tying her, I just had the lead rope laying over the post.
 

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That’s kind of the point of it. If you want a tiny bit more of a pull then you can add a granny knot. Usually, if a horse doesn’t find much pressure pulling back they stop, instead of hitting the halter and breaking it. On horses known to pull back we just use a long lead rope. Some horses learn how to snap halters fairly well, and for us it has been an easy fix.

When I talked about General, sure he would pull back, but he never did break halters or throw himself down, so I never changed anything. Cashman is convinced the boogie man lives under the trailer, and pulls back on occasion, but never to the extent to worry about breaking halters or throwing himself down. He did break one, but it was due to a “killer” antelope. Lol

Lucy would throw herself down pulling back. She was one the tie ring worked well for, and eventually quit pulling back.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
That’s kind of the point of it. If you want a tiny bit more of a pull then you can add a granny knot. Usually, if a horse doesn’t find much pressure pulling back they stop, instead of hitting the halter and breaking it. On horses known to pull back we just use a long lead rope. Some horses learn how to snap halters fairly well, and for us it has been an easy fix.

When I talked about General, sure he would pull back, but he never did break halters or throw himself down, so I never changed anything. Cashman is convinced the boogie man lives under the trailer, and pulls back on occasion, but never to the extent to worry about breaking halters or throwing himself down. He did break one, but it was due to a “killer” antelope. Lol

Lucy would throw herself down pulling back. She was one the tie ring worked well for, and eventually quit pulling back.
Ok I'll look into a granny knot. She's never broken a halter or lead before, but she will ONLY stop if she feels the release of pressure. I usually never let my horses have a habit form of pulling back, and she is doing it constantly now, because she knows she can throw a fit and get that reward after the fit(the release of pressure). That's why I think I should hard tie her instead, so she doesn't get the release of pressure and learns that it is easier to stand tied. I can't have her pulling back at events and such(when we eventually start going to them) so I want to break the habit now versus letting her know that it is something she can do whenever she wants. But then again I worry about her hurting herself if I hard tie her.
 

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I haven't taken time to read everything but I handle static in the winter by keeping a spray bottle of Downy fabric softener handy. When I go to take blankets off, I spray a little on the underside of the blanket. When I go to put them back on, I spray the blanket first. Same with a saddle pad, a litte bit of diluted Downy and no static. Doesn't mean I don't ever shock them but if I do, I apologize, rub the area that got zapped and give a little treat for being good about it.
You know, maybe something really good could come out of this. Maybe we can all figure out how to prevent static from shocking our horses. :) I have been wondering what to do about static as well.

So Dreamcatcher, just regular old fabric softener watered down enough to spray in a spray bottle? That would be awesome if that worked. I don't normally blanket my horse but we do have problems with static on saddle blankets when I take them on and off. My only concern about the sprayer is that it can freeze in our garage (which is my tack room) over the winter.

I wonder if rubbing a dryer sheet on the bottom of the saddle blanket (or horse's back) would work? Then freezing wouldn't be an issue.

I haven't shocked my horse this fall yet, but I'm sure it's coming. I did notice silicone type hair detanglers made the problem worse. So I'm not doing that this winter. I will use watered down hair conditioner instead, hopefully that will work as a detangler and not cause static. I guess if I can leave a bottle of watered down conditioner in the garage, I might as well try the fabric softener too. :sneaky:
 

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Ok I'll look into a granny knot. She's never broken a halter or lead before, but she will ONLY stop if she feels the release of pressure. I usually never let my horses have a habit form of pulling back, and she is doing it constantly now, because she knows she can throw a fit and get that reward after the fit(the release of pressure). That's why I think I should hard tie her instead, so she doesn't get the release of pressure and learns that it is easier to stand tied. I can't have her pulling back at events and such(when we eventually start going to them) so I want to break the habit now versus letting her know that it is something she can do whenever she wants. But then again I worry about her hurting herself if I hard tie her.
I wish I knew how to help you with the setting back but I don't have a good solution. My very first horse had a habit of setting back. Once, before I got a little smarter, I tied him to a barn door and he ripped it off the top hinge. Very scary! He had a tendency to set back the whole time I had him, from about the age of 11 to when he passed away at 26. He didn't do it constantly though, maybe once every few months. About the time you let your guard down, he could have a panic attack and set back. I'm not sure if they ever really get over it.

One thing that helped BUT I DON'T RECOMMEND IT is that because I didn't know better (first horse and all) I tied him up once in a Be-Nice Halter. Which you should NOT tie in, but I didn't know that. So one time I tied him in that and he set back and freaked out, then jumped forward and should his head, like man, that hurt! And I swear he was better after that. But don't do what I did, it was a dumb thing to do and I was a ignorant newbie.
 

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I’ve heard a few stories like that @trailhorserider. I know of one my grandpa owned who set back and broke the halter, flipped over into a pond, and tried to drown. This was a thing she never did again after that.

Yet, we never tie a horse solid know to actually pull back. I know some will on concrete, because they’ll tip so fast and tear themselves up, but I don’t see the point of hurting a good horse knowingly.

My father has an old horse they bought supposedly younger than he ended up being. He sets back to break halters. They just tote the tie ring with them on the trailer wherever they go. He’ll always quit before the end of the lead, and he goes to events too. Lucy was the same, but as I said, she got over it as she aged and we never worry to tie her hard now.
 

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Before the tie rings became a thing, the paint horse I trick rode on throughout my younger years and team roped on, was bad to pull back. Before we owned him he broke a young boy’s jaw, pulling a post out of the ground and hitting the kid in the face. He was a little boy too. So, we always just wrapped the rope around something, with a similar theory to the tie ring. I never remember it causing much a problem.
 

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Before the tie rings became a thing, the paint horse I trick rode on throughout my younger years and team roped on, was bad to pull back. Before we owned him he broke a young boy’s jaw, pulling a post out of the ground and hitting the kid in the face. He was a little boy too. So, we always just wrapped the rope around something, with a similar theory to the tie ring. I never remember it causing much a problem.
I haven’t had a horse that had the habit of pulling back but a couple of them have started and I tried to nip it in the bud. They all stand really quiet now. But for all of them until they were like really broke to halter pressure I never tied them down solid. I just wrapped the lead rope around the rail so when they did pull back they wouldn’t feel trapped. All of them only did a few times and haven’t done it since. They are all tied down solid now.

Folks that I have watched that had chronic pull-backers only ever wrapped the lead rope around the hitching rail.
 

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I have not read the other replies, I'm sorry. My responses to your post are imbedded, in red.


I am currently leasing a mare named Tilly. I have had her for about 4 months, and she is staying with me until April 2022. Lately we have been having some issues together. any other issues? The main one being...a few days ago I accidentally static shocked her nose with my gloves on, like gloves to keep your hands warm? will you always be wearing them while working with her? and since then she has been really touchy about her nose being touched. Anytime I touch her nose, she pulls back aggressively, whether she is tied or not. So yesterday I was working on this, and anytime she pulled back I backed her up 4 or 5 more steps. This really bothered me to hear. I do not think punishing a horse for a fear reaction is in any way helpful. If she wants to back up, she is going to have to back up enough to make her work. After about the sixth time of backing her up, she got frustrated and swung her butt to the side instead of backing up.Not surprising, as she has absolutely no idea why you are doing this; backing her up harshly. There is no connection, thus NO learning , associated with this forceful backing and her over reacting to a learned fear This caused her to run her but into our big metal drag rake. I immediately noticed her limping, so I stopped her and she wouldn't put weight on her back left foot. I called my sister out and we took a look and she had a cut on both legs, one on her hock and one on her pastern. We called the vet and told her we would be coming in, since there was heat and swelling on the hock that she cut. After figuring out who's trailer we could borrow(ours is currently full because we are helping our grandparents move onto our property) we trailered her up and took her to the nearest emergency vet. They concluded that they were just superficial, so they shaved the area, cleaned them, put ointment on, and wrapped them. Moral of the story, we need to take 2 weeks off of riding(perfect time to work on groundwork and fix the issues we've been having) and keep the wraps on for 10 days. I need to change the wraps every 3 days. We got her home after she woke up from sedation, Why was she sedated? to be shaved? and she was walking fine with no limp. Has anyone ever experienced anything like this? Any ideas as to what to work on while we wait to ride again? Any cheap(or free) treatments or plans to try that might keep her less bored is she on stall rest? why? you said she was walking fine. so, can't she go out into a paddock? why boredom issues? and help with our issues? I am going to try and save enough money to get her a couple PEMF I'm sorry, I am not familiar with that word. Can you explain? treatments, since my friend offers them at a discount, before I start riding her again. Also, her owner has been kept up to date throughout all of the training problems we've been having, as well as the injury, and she is very understanding!

Will you need to wear those gloves always? perhaps a kind of glove that does not generate static electricity will help. what is the material those gloves are made of?

Backing her up forcefullly will not be helpful to make her ok with having her nose touched. And, if you plan to continue to wear things that DO generate static shocks, then no training in the world will help her deal with that.
So, number one for you is to use gloves that do not generate static shock. As or her remembered fear, work slowly and calmly and not forcefully. You are dealing with FEAR. Would you treat a scared child with force? No, with slow, calm reassurance. That does not mean you stop touchin her, but that you do not amp up the negative energy level. Instead, you slowly keep trying to touch her and do not remove your hand until she shows a sign of behavior that is the opposite of pulling back : like pausing, like flipping ears forward, like stepping forward. THEN you take your hand off.

I think the many Youtube trainers that promote aggressive backing of a horse as a way to deal with anything that is in any way 'rebeluous' on the horse's part has been a very negative influence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I have not read the other replies, I'm sorry. My responses to your post are imbedded, in red.





Will you need to wear those gloves always? perhaps a kind of glove that does not generate static electricity will help. what is the material those gloves are made of?

Backing her up forcefullly will not be helpful to make her ok with having her nose touched. And, if you plan to continue to wear things that DO generate static shocks, then no training in the world will help her deal with that.
So, number one for you is to use gloves that do not generate static shock. As or her remembered fear, work slowly and calmly and not forcefully. You are dealing with FEAR. Would you treat a scared child with force? No, with slow, calm reassurance. That does not mean you stop touchin her, but that you do not amp up the negative energy level. Instead, you slowly keep trying to touch her and do not remove your hand until she shows a sign of behavior that is the opposite of pulling back : like pausing, like flipping ears forward, like stepping forward. THEN you take your hand off.

I think the many Youtube trainers that promote aggressive backing of a horse as a way to deal with anything that is in any way 'rebeluous' on the horse's part has been a very negative influence.
I never backed her forcefully. It was gentle corrections the whole time, so I wasn't being overly forceful. The gloves I wear are to keep my hands warm, as I live in montana, and if I'm outside for more than 10 minutes without gloves my hands are numb. I don't know what they're made out of, but I'll definitely look into different gloves. However not wearing them isn't an option.

As for the sedation, I honestly don't know. This was my first time at this vet. Possibly because she was a little touchy with her back legs(understandably because she was in pain)

No, she's not on stall rest. She is turned out in pasture with the other horses. However she loves riding and working, and gets really bored when she doesn't have anything to focus on. I was just hoping to find some things I could do to keep her mind active while off riding.

PEMF is a pulse therapy treatment. It promotes circulation in the body, and is really effective in reducing stress, anxiety, and tension, as well as helping promote a faster healing process for injuries, helping with better sleep, and more.
 

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thank you for your clear explanation. May I ask why backing her gently would help with this situation? I do apologize for assuming you were backing forcefully (meaning, quickly and well past the point where horse is asking to stop).

by the time you unclip her from the post, the connecction between her pulling back, and you asking her to back , is broken. Is she in cross ties or single tied to a post? I am not a trainer, I'll be the first to admit. But, I remember my old teacher showed us one way of dealing with horses that pull back. It is basically to teach them that they have the freedom to move side to side. And, it is this feeling in the horse that they have NO freedom that promotes a panic reaction. So, she had us using a flagging approacch, with two persons where we actually creeated some pressure that might make the horse pull back in panic, and then using a flagging pressure on the side of the rear quarters, got the hrose to step sideways. Like if they are tied to a post, they can swing a good bit to one side. By doing so, they often creat a bit of 'freedom' (slack) in the rope, all by themselves! we did this on both sides multiple times. it teaches the horse that if they feel a great need to move in 'self preservation", that they can swing to one side and will get some relief. Instead of blindly going straight backward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
thank you for your clear explanation. May I ask why backing her gently would help with this situation? I do apologize for assuming you were backing forcefully (meaning, quickly and well past the point where horse is asking to stop).

by the time you unclip her from the post, the connecction between her pulling back, and you asking her to back , is broken. Is she in cross ties or single tied to a post? I am not a trainer, I'll be the first to admit. But, I remember my old teacher showed us one way of dealing with horses that pull back. It is basically to teach them that they have the freedom to move side to side. And, it is this feeling in the horse that they have NO freedom that promotes a panic reaction. So, she had us using a flagging approacch, with two persons where we actually creeated some pressure that might make the horse pull back in panic, and then using a flagging pressure on the side of the rear quarters, got the hrose to step sideways. Like if they are tied to a post, they can swing a good bit to one side. By doing so, they often creat a bit of 'freedom' (slack) in the rope, all by themselves! we did this on both sides multiple times. it teaches the horse that if they feel a great need to move in 'self preservation", that they can swing to one side and will get some relief. Instead of blindly going straight backward.
It's my first time dealing with a horse that pulls back, so I honestly didn't really know how to handle the situation. With most of my training(saddling and such)I use the mentality to make the right things easy and the wrong thing hard. So pulling back(the wrong solution) will result in working. I decided to go with backing up because it was the quickest way to get her to respond so she could make the connection. I hadn't even considered it being a fear response at the time, otherwise I would've handled it completely differently!

She normally is tied to a single tie ring, but lately I've been just laying the lead rope over the post so that I could make the quickest correction possible(so she can associate the behaviors and such) and avoid having to take extra time to untie her. Thank you for your help so far!
 

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Unfortunately I can't try to minimize the static shock, as I have to wear gloves in the winter, because I live in Montana. If I don't wear gloves, my hands are numb within 10 minutes. And I accidentally shock her without gloves too. I can't figure out why we both generate so much electricity lol. Do you have any recommendations on trust building exercises that I could try with her while she is off of riding? And what should I do when she pulls back 10+ times when I am grooming her anytime I try to give her a treat because I accidentally touch her nose?
Don't give her the treat, offer it and let her come to you. Be very patient. It's very important that when she pulls away you don't make a scene, don't sigh or growl in frustration. Try a more understanding approach "its ok baby girl". Begin with something like a carrot, that she has to work her way down. And yes you can get anti static sprays and wipes. Don't just spray also wash your gloves/clothes with fabric conditioner too.
 

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I read somewhere that one reason some cats don't like being petted is the way the person pets them generates static shock The stroke that sort of 'snaps' off at the end as the human lifts their hand and moves for another stroke is the way it makes electricity (what , like charges the electrons or some other scientifc reason) . and if you put your hand down , pause, stroke, pause again, then take it off straight up and slowly, it won't generate the elec.
I wonder if you could discharge any built up elec by touching something metal, before touching her. And, put your hand straight down on her neck, and gently move it forward, pausing a bit. maybe that will help not to build up a charge. Instead of coming straight toward her nose.

maybe true using rubber gloves over your wool ones.? isn't rubber an insulator? Or, am I thinking wrong and it's somethng that is used in generators? I"m not a sciency person.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I read somewhere that one reason some cats don't like being petted is the way the person pets them generates static shock The stroke that sort of 'snaps' off at the end as the human lifts their hand and moves for another stroke is the way it makes electricity (what , like charges the electrons or some other scientifc reason) . and if you put your hand down , pause, stroke, pause again, then take it off straight up and slowly, it won't generate the elec.
I wonder if you could discharge any built up elec by touching something metal, before touching her. And, put your hand straight down on her neck, and gently move it forward, pausing a bit. maybe that will help not to build up a charge. Instead of coming straight toward her nose.

maybe true using rubber gloves over your wool ones.? isn't rubber an insulator? Or, am I thinking wrong and it's somethng that is used in generators? I"m not a sciency person.
Thank you so much! I'll definitely give that a try!
 

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Clinton Anderson used to have a thing that would allow the rope to slide thru. I ordered one years ago for our Zim stallion. He had a very good reason for pulling back hard. He'd been put with a trainer when he was a young horse, that if he had a bad night at the local bar, would come home, drag Zim out, tie him short, and beat the living daylights out of him. Zim had the scars to prove it. It was NOT just hearsay.
Anyway, you use a long lead rope, run it thru this device. When the horse pulls, it allows the rope to slide thru. When he stops, you just tighten the rope back up, and if the horse wants to pull again, he can, but typically not as far as the first time.
We used this on Zim and he got markedly better. He got to where most of the time, he would not pull at all. But, every now and then, he'd still have a go at it. IT was called The Blocker tie ring. All I can say is it works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Clinton Anderson used to have a thing that would allow the rope to slide thru. I ordered one years ago for our Zim stallion. He had a very good reason for pulling back hard. He'd been put with a trainer when he was a young horse, that if he had a bad night at the local bar, would come home, drag Zim out, tie him short, and beat the living daylights out of him. Zim had the scars to prove it. It was NOT just hearsay.
Anyway, you use a long lead rope, run it thru this device. When the horse pulls, it allows the rope to slide thru. When he stops, you just tighten the rope back up, and if the horse wants to pull again, he can, but typically not as far as the first time.
We used this on Zim and he got markedly better. He got to where most of the time, he would not pull at all. But, every now and then, he'd still have a go at it. IT was called The Blocker tie ring. All I can say is it works.
Yeah we have one of those and it didn't help at all lol. Thanks though!
 
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