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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of horses dying at CA's place in TX?

According to owner of deceased horse, the horse was "tied low" staff left horse and when came back?

Horse was dead.

Necropsy was not done, per CA saying it would prove nothing nor show why horse died.

Owner 200 miles away, and was told it would be thousands of dollars.

According to owner, prior to horse being sent down to TX. This posted 2/15/13 on farm's FB page.

"Pharaoh the fabulous Friesian is getting ready to be shipped off to boot camp. A training facility that is so tough on horses even my vet says he may come home hairless. I lost sleep thinking about this and having second and third thoughts. Do I really want to put him through this? But even after all the worrying and sleepless nights, the answer is yes, because my dream is to ride with him and for him to have a fun and useful life. I've been getting him ready by cutting way back on his feed and hay. And he is slimming down and his naughty energy is a tiny bit reduced. His major issue is bolting and bucking. I need professionals to ride through his huge powerful bucking and get him over the trauma of having people being injured by it. He doesn't trust anyone on his back anymore because they all keep falling off. (That includes me!)
So fingers crossed that this highly feared yet respected training facility will be able to get him ride-able and buck-less."



Owner further states she was "warned by CA that horses die in this program" several times.


The below from page.


"The story of my experience with Clinton Anderson Academy and the Downunder Ranch and the loss of my 16.2 fabulous black Friesian was so sad. Clinton himself told me several times, horses die in this program. I really thought it was a scare tactic to keep out the wimps. I never in the world thought a world class outfit like his would ever allow horses to actually die. But my horse is now buried at the Downunder Ranch in Stephenville, TX,
Our money for training was returned to us. He offered us a 14.1 hand gelding but I turned it down because I do not have any use for a pony on this farm. We already have a couple 14.1 hand ponies. He offered a free training for any horse in the future. But I won't ever use that. How could I? My trust and confidence has been destroyed. So the moral to the story is to believe what people tell you. If they say horses die in this program believe them."



While I have questions about someone sending horse off after being told this?

I have far more questions for a trainer that openly acknowledges that horses die in his care, when he touts himself as a "gentle trainer"?

This from owner as to what happened.


"What Clinton told me was that he had been tied out low to graze for two hours. When the academy student came back to get him he was laying down and was dead. He could have fallen and broke his neck, heart attack, anuerism. Clinton said that it must have been fast because there was no signs of colic (struggle or rolling). Because it happened so quickly they did not think an autopsy would be able to identify conclusively the COD."

I do also know that for years people talked about Shirley Roth, and Cleve Wells too, and they had horses die as well in their care, and nothing was done to them until recently.

As for tying low? If this is the old school method of hobbling? That means tying horse's head to one front foot and leaving them to fight it out. NOT a kind gentle way to train in my thoughts.

And people who live near his place, say it is not the "happy horsey" place he talks about either.
 

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Holy crap......I would never leave my horse In the care of ANYONE or ANYPLACE that has a reputation of having horses die in their care. That is just terrible!!
 

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honestly, the owner sounds not that smart imo. so its really hard to say what actually happened.

I need professionals to ride through his huge powerful bucking and get him over the trauma of having people being injured by it. He doesn't trust anyone on his back anymore because they all keep falling off. (That includes me!)
really ??!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sadly, people do.

Shirley Roth was pretty well known in WP for killing horses and abusing them, but nothing was said or done openly until last year. Same with Cleve Wells. And others of all breeds/disciplines too.

Am hoping that others will know of horses that died to see if this is common?
 

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Honestly. People get horses TAKEN by the HS for less.....we have an endurance rider who kills horses, and STILL gets new followers. Makes NO sense to me, and I will not give either of them the time of day.

Nancy
 

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Sounds like the main aorta blew, like Hickstead if there was no struggle. The dirt around the horse tells a lot. A struggling horse or one that fought the rope will show in the dirt. Same if no struggle. We never know if or when this can happen. A friend was trotting her mare when it dropped like a sack of potatoes. She had blown the main aorta.
 

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Has RateMyHorsePro said anything yet? They are usually on top of these things....
 

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To be honest, the owner sounds a little...odd...on her facebook page. There's a few things she posted that make me skeptical.

And you bet your *** if my horse died while in a trainer's care without any explanation I would be getting a necropsy done. 200 miles is not very far away in the grand scheme of things and I really can't imagine a necropsy costing thousands.

Something stinks about this whole thing and I don't think the stench is coming from the CA camp.

*disclaimer* I am not a CA follower, so my opinion is not coloured by some sense of loyalty to him.
 

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Last time I got a necropsy done at the university it was $100. Getting the horse there ... that was the problem, I put it in the back of my pick up, covered it with a tarp and drove it there.

I would demand some answers.
 

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sorry, but things happen. No sane trainer at clinton andersons level advertises killing horses, especially one in the nh catagory.

the owner sounds very uneducated.

My BO had a stallion, vet checked 100%, a mare came in for breeding, 2 days later he died in his stall. I saw him at 8pm the night before and he was found dead at 1am. no feed changes, nothing different at all and they had an autopy, which was inconslusive. thankfully the mare owner seemed understanding and was refunded, but many a person would have looked at that situation and blamed the BO. another example, BO took in a free filly off the track, she was a 'roarer'(diagnosed by the vet, that was the only problem he could find), with the intention of giving her some time off, then retraining her as a pleasure horse. she was put out to pasture, and a month later found dead, with no signs of struggle. things happen with horses.
 

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It sounds like CA did all he could to rectify the situation. The horse dropped dead, he offered another horse. I think if the owner had wanted a necropsy done, regardless of cost, he might have given her the name and number of a vet and let her arrange it ON HER OWN DIME. It might have shown the problem or not, but then she could say that everything possible had been done to find the cause.

Two sides to every story and it doesn't sound like this is even a complete ONE side. Not a CA follower at all, so I have no dog in this fight. Horses are horses and they can and do find some of the most ingenious ways to die/kill themselves. For such tough, hardy beasts they really are amazingly delicate sometimes.
 

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I've scoured the internet to find anything on this, and nothing.

Now, Clinton Anderson is quite a big trainer I would assume if this did happen a statement would have been made somewhere, something in the media, just something. Maybe they're hiding it? I just don't know what to believe here. The other posts aren't a problem, but they're not official. I also cannot believe the CA himself or any of his students or trainers would say horses die IN the training program because of him. I myself would not want to deal with a trainer who has killed horses, I don't think CA has though. I do think horses can die AT / IN training due to pre-exsisting conditions. These deaths just happen and aren't caused by anyone. I am not a part of the CA clan following at all just looking at both sides.

Why would the owner of said horse send their horse to a trainer who kills horses? That's another question I have here. From her alleged posts on FB she doesn't sound to horse savvy. Also, not feeding your horse before training? That's just wrong too.

Now, I do believe as others have said things happen. If it's all true and there were no signs of struggle, etc. It could have literally just happened...

All in all, for me at least. There's too much left unsaid. We don't know what really happened without a necropsy. We have a lot of one side and not the other.
 

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Nobody said "kills horses" ... what was (apparently) said was "horses die" ...

If a worried fretful owner says to a trainer "My horse isn't going to die, right?"

Trainer might say "I can't guarantee that .. horses die."

Seems an odd conversation to have, but I think it's extremely unrealistic to think that ANY trainer that has handled thousands of horses isn't going to have one die -- of accident, injury, colic, whater -- at some time or another.

It happens.
 

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Agree with those who think there's more to this than the owner is posting. I cannot imagine a trainer telling someone that "horses die in this program", to begin with. I know the owner is upset, but if the OP feels the horse's death was due to negligence, get off the internet and sue...otherwise at least refer to CA as "the trainer" rather than identifying him on open forums. CA seems like a stand up guy that tried to do the right thing in bad circumstances. I don't know what constitutes slander, but the OP might want to find out if she continues to post on various forums.
 
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