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Discussion Starter #1
So for the most part visit went very well, Jax was well behaved but very curious. She found a few sore spots, so asked to see my saddle. Saddle fit for the most part is good, but it was rocking back slightly so she suggested I try shimming the back slightly to get it completely level. Ok.

Also noticed he had a really loose atlas? Hes an almost 6 year old TWH, she said thats usually more common in younger horses? But showed me some stretches to do to help strengthen and tighten. Ok.

Now heres what gets me? She said hes tipped to the rear? Hes being lazy and resting his weight on the hind end. Her suggestion was shoes only on the rear to help lift and retain his muscle memory? Or wedged boots OR dubbing his toe if I wanted to stay barefoot? Now, not to be a defensive owner, but he actually has quite good feet. We're able to ride almost everywhere barefoot even. Heres a thread where I posted pics of his feet. Have you ever heard of this?
http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/hoof-critique-589754/

I realized after I was driving home I should have taken a few confo shots. But heres a few bad ones I found on phone :(






But for most part she said he looks like a happy healthy horse, just some little things. Just the leaning back/back shoes has me confused. I told my farrier and he said she tells everyone that and to def get a second opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Haha thats what I was thinking! I just dont understand how what she said would help him, I didn't even know he was having trouble! We ride for miles w/gait/canter and he doesnt fuss a bit!
 

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Most of these practitioners seem to have "hook". That is the best word I can find for it. One reason that I am skeptical of the practice. I know LOTS of horse owners feel they have a LOT of value. I am not one.....but I am not saying NEVER.
 

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Yeah, I usually just get it done yearly...I figure it makes me feel good so I'm sure he would like it! I tried a different vet though then who I used to use.....because everyone recommended her.
 

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When riding dressage the goal is always to get the horse to carry his weight on the hind end. I can't imagine why shifting the weight to the fore would be the goal.
 

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I suspect that she may have done some course or workshop(or even read some article that impressed her) where farriery like this was purported to help, and she is seeing it as THE answer. I too *suspect* it's not, but I don't know. I'd ask her for more info on her theory & reasoning, so you can learn more & make a more objective opinion about it.
 

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When riding dressage the goal is always to get the horse to carry his weight on the hind end. I can't imagine why shifting the weight to the fore would be the goal.
In the pics above Kay, it appears the horse has a rather angular sacro region & is 'sickle hocked'. I'm guessing that's what the chiro means by 'leaning back' & I'd take it that it's a sacro region/hip/lumbar problem, and the sickle hocks - & therefore any hoof imbalance - are a product of that, so just 'fixing' the feet is not going to achieve anything if the back's out. But I'm no body expert...
 

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Thanks loosie, that kind of helps it make a little more sense. I'll try to get s better picture today or tomorrow too, I know the ones I posted are terrible to really see confo :(

Any suggestions then? She said she wanted to come back out in two weeks but wanted him to have the shoes or boots with wedges on...
 

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NO WAY would I have a chiro out whose care was dependent on you taking such invasive measures. Well, shoes are invasive, boots not so much.

I would definitely be taking her advice with a grain of salt and getting a second opinion. A second opinion from another chiro, if possible.
 

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Gosh, this is really bugging me for some reason, the more I think about it.

I see what looosie is saying about the angular sacral area and sickle hocks (slight, IMO) but until you know whether he is "being lazy" or this is jow he needs to stand due to his conformation I would not be putting "high heels" on this horse especially if he is completely sound now.

I am not a body expert either, but AM a human with chiropractic issues like mild scoliosis, disc deterioration and arthritis. I walk and carry myself a certain way because I have to, and if some chiropractor tried to mold me into "proper" human anatomical carriage I would be crippled.

Now, that said, if he is "being lazy" (aka 'poor posture') he may be sound now but runs a very real risk of deteriorating as time goes on due to "unnatural" forces on muscles and joints. But if this is true I would be much more inclined to fix it via exercise rather than mechanics.
 

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Yes she did say I need to make sure I'm riding him properly and not letting him be lazy. His owner before me just hopped on him bareback with a halter and cantered everywhere lol! So he's been learning a lot with me. I know sometimes he def gets a bit strung out though, she said when he does to bring him back in to me and correct it rather then letting him keep going...which obviously makes sense...I'm sometimes bad on trails and just kind of let him do his thing rather then making sure he's doing his thing correctly.

Sometimes when we canter, I can feel one of my hips being pushed a lot more forward, she said that's because of him not using himself properly. Anytime I feel that I MUST bring him back down and start over. I was wondering why my hip would do that and now I have hat answered at least!

But honestly he never feels unsound at all, never pins his ears when I ask for any speeds...I mean we still have our arguments here and there but imo they are never pain related..more like bratty 5 year old. But I get what you're saying that now he may be fine but if I keep down this path of letting him carry himself incorrectly that it will cause issues down the road.

So now I have more to focus on during our rides!! Which is good! We only trail ride so all our work is ok the trails. Most of our trails are pretty narrow so it's hard to school certain things...but his is something we can work on and will be great for us!
 

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Am I the only one giggling at a "loose atlas"? Please please email her to ask what on Earth that means. One would hope the Atlas is securely in place ;)
I love Chiro's - they can be such awesome therapists. But it pays to shop around for a quality one. I would not be taking hoof advice from anyone who hasn't studied distal limb anatomy extensively alongside with the effects on hoof care (and visa versa).
However, you do need a good team around you - if you're not happy with what she has to say (and poke the bear - ask her lots of questions!), get a second opinion. Don't tell the therapist what the first one said until after they've given you a report. Then discuss.
 

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She said she wanted to come back out in two weeks but wanted him to have the shoes or boots with wedges on...
Oh OK, I got the idea she was posing it as a fix, not perhaps just a help. Thing is, this type of confo/issue does tend to cause hind feet to get long in the toe & too low heeled, not uncommonly neg plantar P3(see it often in OT horses, looks like they have front feet on their hinds. But you can't just go 'correcting' the feet, because it's not a foot issue... well, it becomes one because of the body.

Addressing the body issue will *allow* the feet to improve their own confo, but aiding them along the way with heel support **under the frog, not heel walls can indeed help. Perhaps also there's something she sees as unhelpful currently, that is getting in the way of body treatment. Eg if there are negative or 'broken back' P2/P3 angles, this is also best dealt with, to avoid further damage, and may be exacerbating body mechanics, getting in the way of further treatment.

So... with more info, it doesn't sound silly, and I'd want more info from her too, on her reasoning. If the horse lives on yielding footing, then I reckon boots with frog support wedges for work should suffice, rather than fixed 24/7 shoes.
 

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Yes she did say I need to make sure I'm riding him properly and not letting him be lazy. His owner before me just hopped on him bareback with a halter and cantered everywhere lol! So he's been learning a lot with me. I know sometimes he def gets a bit strung out though, she said when he does to bring him back in to me and correct it rather then letting him keep going...which obviously makes sense...I'm sometimes bad on trails and just kind of let him do his thing rather then making sure he's doing his thing correctly.

Sometimes when we canter, I can feel one of my hips being pushed a lot more forward, she said that's because of him not using himself properly. Anytime I feel that I MUST bring him back down and start over. I was wondering why my hip would do that and now I have hat answered at least!
It's not bad to let your horse move strung out or how he wants to now & then, especially if he's just learning collection. It can be tiring & soring to hold frame all the time.

As for one hip moving more forward at the canter that's normal. On the right lead for example that hip (the horse's) is reaching farther forward than the left so your hip does the same. It's not much but it's there if you're sitting the gait. I notice it less in a collected canter/lope.
 

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I'm going to upset a lot of people but I'm sure there are more chiro's that are 'quacks' than almost anything else in the horse business
I don't get the Atlas thing - all the bones are held in place by each other and really strong muscles and ligament but some are designed to move freely and some aren't.
Why the wedges on the rear shoes - does he stand with his feet underneath his belly so he's leaning back on his hocks?
A lot of these people trot out profound phrases to impress clients but they often mean nothing
In the video he looks to move freely enough though I'd describe his canter as 'running' because its really too flat and stretched out so he's pulling himself forwards with his font end rather than pushing from behind but if he's young and still in training that's not an awful thing as long as you don't let him get too forward/fast
As you gradually work on getting him more collected his muscles will improve and he'll get his quarters engaged and you should see a big difference in his top line
I prefer to use an Equine Physio that works on massage therapy myself
 
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