Are you talking about from a stand still or just going faster?

From a stand still, get her to start turning to "unstick" her feet.

If she's already moving, squeeze both legs, bump both legs, use the crop/whip and keep increasing the pressure until she responds. Even if it's just for a few strides, that's a start. If you stop before she responds, you are just teaching her to ignore your cues. If tapping her behind your leg doesn't work, try her butt. If tapping doesn't work, give her a smack then a whack. Whatever it's going to take to get her to respond. If you start with little pressure first and increase, she will start responding to the lighter pressure.

Have you thought of using spurs (if you know how to use them correctly)?
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:thumbsup: Thank you- I will give them a go.
And about spurs- of course I won't start using them till a instructor has taught me to do so, but, whats the general idea about using them? :-?

 

Spurs are just a reinforcement of your cues just like a whip or crop. You don't jab them into the horse. You put them against their side just like you do your calves. If that still has no effect, you roll them. Usually that's enough to get them to move.
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Did the whip work? If so, I don't see why you don't just use that.

Have you heard of "the lesson of the leg"? It's a remedial exercise for a horse that likes to ignore leg aids. I would only do it in an enclosed arena, and also you do have to have a reasonably good seat before you try it. You will need a whip. What you do is, first apply your usual leg aid for an upward transition. The horse should move out promptly and with noticeable energy. Not just a sluggish amble. If that doesn't happen, you then apply a stronger leg aid. Both times, you are applying the aid only one time--no nagging. If the horse doesn't move forward smartly and promptly from this, you then (make sure your reins are loose and) apply the original soft leg aid and smack with the whip at the same time! You should be smacking hard enough so that the horse jerks forward. The reins need to be loose so that you can guarantee you're not yanking on his mouth when he moves forward. If he goes faster than you wanted, you let him go at that pace for a minute or so, praising him, and then quietly bring him down to the pace you want. You'll probably have to do this a couple times, and some horses need reminders every few rides, but it really works.

Because the horse may go into a faster gait than you expect, you may prefer to get into jumping position and have your hands on the mane for the whip smack, rather than just loosening the rein.

By the time you read this I guess you'll have had your ride, so let us know how it went!

 

very similar to what i do ruleofreason.

apply soft lef, med leg, hard leg. if they arent going to gait you want by now, cluck ONE TIME. if they dont move off, you need to smack them behind your leg until they gallop. make sure once they move forward you stop smacking them. once you do thisa couple times, they will learn they have 3 chances to move off of your leg. if they dont, they will hear the cluck and know whats coming next.

 

RuleofReason for the win.

That's how you educate a horse that ignores the leg.

Ask once. No nagging. If the question is ignored, demand and demand swiftly.

 

If you use a crop, be sure not to over-use it. It's an aid, not a punishment.
Also, having other horse buddies with him might help him move along a little faster.

 

I would say bring that crop with you and have alot of patience. Even if the horse only goes a few steps that is better than nothing. Give a good pat. I would squeeze with both legs, cluck or kiss and give a little tap with the crop.

With the crop find out the area on her/his body that seems to make them move. My horse will move more when I tap him on the shoulder than the butt, all horses are different.

If nothing else works try looking around and seeing if the horse is looking at something. I have had the problem with my guy were he will just stop and not move even if you slapped him on the butt. Get off, walk the horse over to the area and show them it is ok.

Light spurs are also good....try using some of those ideas...good luck!

 

I teach my riders to tap/press with the leg - no kicking!
1st leg aid - oh ok you were asleep!
2nd leg aid - go - great
if ignored
3rd leg aid with sharp whip behind leg
If still ignored then the stick gets turned up the otherway and is used first over hand on one side and rapidly behind the leg on the side it is being carried in.
Eg, stick in right hand - whack on the left, then rapidly whack on the right - 99% of horses will shoot forward from this.
Allow the horse to keep moving forward for a few strides before quietly slowing to the desired pace.
The moment the horse moves forward he must be rewarded - this means stop using leg and whips and then praise preferably with your voice or a stroke on the neck. Don't do this if he is already slowing down again as then you are paraising him for going slower.

 

Have you ever wondered why your horse won't move? He doesn't want to. If your mum came up to you a said 'go for a walk' or 'go for a run' it's not the most ideal thing (it might be for you but your horse doesn't seem to like it). I ride Parelli which uses methods of making a horse want to do something for you instead of feeling 'oh I probably should do this or I'm gonna get hit'. He is taking advantage of you. He doesn't think you are interesting enough for him to do something for you. If my horse doesn't want to do something, I change her mind. If she doesn't want to walk forward, the first thing I do is bring all my energy up, squeeze all the way down your leg, not just lower leg or heel and then click or kiss. If this doesn't work, I do want I mentioned before; I change her mind. If she doesn't want to go forwards, we will go backwards, sideways, small turning circles and so on. If se doesn't respond, I would get off and make her do something that gets her thinking (I would do cantering figure 8) after a while she will think, would I rather canter round, or walk with her on my back? I know maybe the getting off part may not help for when you are going out hacking but hopefully it will helpfor the future I know Parelli doesn't work for everyone but these are a few things that can be incorporated into traditional riding as well. Once again, I hope I have helped )

 

thats awesome savvygirl- i need to start thinking like this!! No wait- i WILL start tthinking like this!! Thank you!

 

I never thought like this until someone told me, but once you hear it it makes loads of sense even though you would have never have thought of it that way- and its okay!

 

No offence to Savvy but ew, Parelli. PP is a good horseman in his own right (when he's in control that is) but the majority of his "instructors" have got the wrong end of the stick and are teaching their own version of the method which may or may not be as effective. I personally use a modified version of Parelli taught to me by a very well-considered horseman who actually learned from the man himself. Among others.

What I would do in this situation is what my instructor has been at me about with Monty. Light leg aid, ONCE. No nagging. And then if the horse doesn't respond, make it think it's going to die if it doesn't move NOW. You ask for forward, you should GET forward, and it doesn't matter if it's faster than you thought you were asking, not while you're putting the notion of forward into the horse's head. You can always refine it later.

I have from a sluggish walk to trot transition, demanded a fast canter. Boy was he sharp off the leg the next time!

Oh - and if the transition is dodgy, bring the horse back and ask again, and again, and again, until you get a snappy one - and THEN allow the horse to keep going in the gait you were asking for.

 

i have a very lazy fjord, so my instructor taught me that if squeezing with my legs doesn't work, and a tap with the whip behind my leg doesn't work, you whack them on the top of their bum (and i mean really skelp them), because that's where the energy comes from. it really worked with my horse, she got the hang of it and soon was going nicely with just me using my legs

 

Do you actually want your horse to feel as if its gonna die or be hurt? My horse does things for me because she wants to, not because she feel tha she is the prey and will be hurt if she doesnt.

 

Hasn't harmed my relationship with either of mine, Savvy. They're both easy to catch in the pasture (they catch ME) and they're both very affectionate and friendly with anybody. So the yearling's not under saddle yet and with a horse that's still learning I'd move more slowly but with Monty... He is an accomplished eventer and therefore usually pretty good on the "soft aids" side of things but bloody lazy so yes, he needs to know there are unpleasant consequences for not doing as he's told, or he'd get more and more sluggish off the leg and THEN where would I be? I don't advocate abuse... I just feel that Parelli-followers and MANY other horsepeople besides are far too soft on their horses and that's why we get people who have problems.

With any horse, you want to make what YOU want the easy way out. My boy can't handle a whip so I've had to increase the strength in my legs so that I can give STRONG leg aids, and I bought some spurs to use if I'm anticipating a particularly sluggish day. I used them for two rides and haven't needed them since. If he's being REALLY bad, and I don't have my spurs with me, I'll dismount and put him in the round pen, and he will go quickly, or he will feel the sting of the lunge whip on his butt.

I don't force my horse to do anything... what I do is ensure that he respects me. I guarantee you that if the alpha mare in the pasture told a horse to move, and that horse refused, she'd do a whole lot worse than any human being is physically capable of.

 

Well people that have problems, are not using it properly. I have been taught by a Parelli Proffessional, I know what I am doing, if you use it wrong, you can get problems. My aids are soft to begin with, and I get harder gradually. But I have now improved a lot with my horse and use the same aids but 1..........234 not 1....2....3.....4, so my horse moves forwards on the ground while riding and turns with me just using hand signals and body language.
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That's a good technique, blue eyed pony, and I used it too on my boy, when he was extremely lazy and sluggish both in walk, trot and transitioning to canter. We got to snappy transitions and active walk in no time, and he's very responsive to the leg - learning that "go" really means GO and that following the leader, if the leader says we have to run, NOW, is a good thought. And it hasn't harmed our relationship, either, quite on the contrary.

 

Savvy, a whip and spurs in the wrong hands can do damage, as can a knotted headcollar and a 'carrot' stick.

My horse has a job- she is a working animal. Fear and respect are two different things, and I wouldn't condone anyone that beats their horse's in to submission- however, I do have one question to ask you, and I don't know if Parelli has covered this.

Herd dynamics.
In Parelli's heard, does his lead mare politely ask the others to stop getting in her space, stop trying to get in to lead position and stop nipping at her heels?

I'll answer this how I would: no.
Horses are horses. If I use a whip, leg or spur on my horse, it is not to harm him, it is to REMIND him I am lead mare. I do not have the physical strength of a horse to nail her butt and double barrel her, so I use other things to my advantage (no whip though, can't touch her with one under saddle). IF people use these things correctly, its in no way to harm a horse, it is the equivalent to a herd mare saying 'this is where you go' I am saying 'this is where your feet go ie speed, gait, movement'.

 

Savvy - so can you explain those horses that the best of Parelli's professionals just can't work with using PP methods? But that other methods work just fine for?

For the record I do use a modified version of Parelli's groundwork. I just don't want to ride his way.

Saranda - it's worked wonders with three of my horses to date that are completely different personality-wise and will be awesome with my filly too, no doubt, when she's under saddle. I had a bold and cheeky TOTAL lazybones little Welshie who there was no way you could ride him without a whip, you HAD to have the whip there even after re-educating him or you'd be doing massive flying kicks every two strides. He would canter a whole jumpers course without breaking by the time I outgrew him, and had I asked it of him, I suspect I'd have gotten a cross country course. Then there was my nervy Standardbred who had no forward to speak of - that was a horse that would get incredibly offended if I used any stronger of an aid than HE deemed necessary. And now my forward-moving-but-lazy Anglo (yes he is both, sometimes both at once!). I've never ridden a horse where increasing the pressure until you get the result you want didn't work.

My attitude with moving forward is that say there's a branch about to fall on you... you've got exactly two seconds to get that forward active trot/canter/whatever or you're going to get squished. You don't have TIME to pussyfoot around with a horse that isn't wanting to listen. So you need your transitions (ALL of them, including downwards ones) just that snappy that you don't scare yourself to death when that tree branch lands right behind you (or in front of you if you're talking downwards transitions), because you've got plenty of room and you're not going to get squished.

Why I say this is because a good GO button is absolutely vitally important in any horse that's used for any discipline. In fact I consider forward to be more important than stop! But, without the four basics of stop, go, left turn and right turn, you can't even begin to work on anything else. The horse needs to be listening to YOU, going YOUR pace, and IMO as long as you're not abusing the animal to get the results, who cares about the method used?

 

My attitude with moving forward is that say there's a branch about to fall on you..

Same here. I sometimes focus my thoughts/energy on the idea that the ground is going to collapse under us in a few seconds, so we move NOW. It seemed that it helped him to understand the idea, too. When I say move, then it has really, really good reasons. And recently it saved us both from possible injuries, when he spooked under saddle from a dog that appeared suddenly in the arena, jumped out of it on the road (my bad, he jumped straight onto icy pavement, so I hesitated to use emergency brakes because I feared we might both fall), and then I saw a car coming straight at us from a turn. Just because he responds so good to my "MOVE, the ground is collapsing!!" cue, he did not freeze in front of the car, but leaped into canter, just as I had asked, the same second I had asked, thus saving us both. It was a scare, but it proved to me once more, how important it is to teach the horse to be really, really responsive.

 

Yep I've had that recently too. With my bloke a good stop is as important as forward because he is very bi-polar (typical bloody Arab) and will be a total slug one day and then a nutcase the next. His stop, I'm sure, saved my life the other day when he spooked forwards and we were riding towards a busy road with my reins held at the buckle. I had exactly two strides to get him halted and this, guys, is from a panicked half-bolt. His go has saved me too, but not as recently so I don't remember details.

 

I honestly think that the sensitivity of the go button depends on its job and rider. Our school horses being schoolies are hand picked for a stiff go button. The kids are taught to squeeze squeeze harder start 'slapping' and MEAN it. Often all that is required if they are infected is squeeze / squeeze harder and maybe a tap ( this is the littlies I'm talking about) however when one of our more advanced riders get on you see these horses moving with almost effort. Often the riders energy coming up is enough.

Essentially the theory is ask quietly first and get louder and louder until the horses response matches your asking.

If the problem repeats ask louder faster.




Rachelgem I too work with fjords and love em
But know they are a rule unto themselves! Half bulldozer! I have used more force with a fjord then I would dream of using on anything else! I know your pain!

The theory behind any ask should be the same whether stop, go sideways, forwards, turn, backwards, move that shoulder etc

Start quietly get louder and louder make sure you have some backup for your command. Ie squeeze, squeeze harder, tap whip, harder, decent flick now, harder, etc

ETA I also train under a brilliant woman with parelli bases. She got jack of a alot of his money making so is no longer a certified instructor. Our basis is in parelli but we then apply that to 'real life' situations, her passion is dressage mine jumping.

Whilst in most scenarios I would not want a move or die feeling, it is sometimes neccesarry so it is vital to have that emergency go button, just as the emerency stop. Everything I work with is taught to move off increasing pressure but must also cope with GO NOW

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Rachelgem I too work with fjords and love em
But know they are a rule unto themselves! Half bulldozer! I have used more force with a fjord then I would dream of using on anything else! I know your pain!


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Yeah, its sometimes hard! when i ride other horses im like, wow, this horse goes and i barely have to touch it!

 

I have not come across a horse that you cannot do Parelli with! A lot of horses are harder to work with as they do not like the idea much, but take the time it takes so it takes less time. And to what you said about the lead mare. In the herd where I ride, my horse is the lead mare. Now I have become her lead mare. If my horse gets in my space, I get her out. No question about it. I am like another horse to her, my carrot stick could be my body or my leg. If she comes into my space, I would kick my stick out at her, and she'll think, wow, she's my lead mare. If she has not done anything wrong, just not moving, I will send her, (like pulling faces, ears back), lift my carrot stick (biting towards her), swing my string(swishing tail, kick out leg) and then hit her (like bite or kick).
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I have not come across a horse that you cannot do Parelli with! A lot of horses are harder to work with as they do not like the idea much, but take the time it takes so it takes less time. And to what you said about the lead mare. In the herd where I ride, my horse is the lead mare. Now I have become her lead mare. If my horse gets in my space, I get her out. No question about it. I am like another horse to her, my carrot stick could be my body or my leg. If she comes into my space, I would kick my stick out at her, and she'll think, wow, she's my lead mare. If she has not done anything wrong, just not moving, I will send her, (like pulling faces, ears back), lift my carrot stick (biting towards her), swing my string(swishing tail, kick out leg) and then hit her (like bite or kick).
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I don't disagree with you, any horse can do parelli, any horse can be beaten in to doing things, or use NH or monty roberts or traditional methods- its the person teaching it.

My point is, you seem to have to 'ask' for a lot of things.. for riding, for moving etc and you have a thing called a carrot stick which is essentially a whip, and you've still got in near her, sending her away etc that I do with a normal lunge whip or the end of a rope. You hit her (bite/kick) like I use my whip to make my horse move forwards.

 

Yes I do ask, then harder and harder and harder, I then demand, I am the herd leader so she will do what I ask her, but I do it as if I am a horse. That is the point of parelli! That is why it is natural!
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