[4horses]

My rescue Paso Fino has a few issues under saddle. His groundwork has improved immensely. His saddle work, not so much.

He stands relaxed for mounting, but the moment you get in the seat he is ready to take off. He whoas for about 2 seconds. Usually I just let him go, as he is difficult to hold and I would rather that energy go somewhere. He will trot very rapidly in circles. He literally does not stop moving the entire ride.

I've been experimenting with riding on a loose rein instead of constantly trying to rate him. This usually results in an extended trot. He has not broken into the canter, although I do rate him if it feels like he might.

He will whoa if I pull pretty hard back. I've been using a one rein stop with slightly better results. He circles to a stop, but again does not want to hold it. The minute you release he wants to move forward. Which means I have to keep repeating the one rein stop.

Forget about adding leg. You can't even touch his sides. My attempts at even adding a turning aid, result in him spinning around in a circle. Now he is fine with dangling stirrups on the lunge and hand pressure on his side's. But with a rider up, no way!

I finally got a good whoa at the end of our ride tonight which I used as a good ending point. Of course, by that time he was covered in sweat and getting tired.

He does listen to voice somewhat, and he rates sometimes. He turns really well based on rein alone. But he has a long way to go.

I'm tempted to have someone bring out a bucket of grain and hand feed him while I sit up there. Something to build trust, as right now he is ready to jump out of his skin. He feels like a keg of dynamite.

I will say he really doesn't do anything bad. His attitude is pretty good. He does get annoyed with the one rein stop, but ears go up as soon as we move forward again.

He does not gait. He does a trot without the suspension.

 

[Alley]

Hey there,
I had this with my mare, but it started with just putting your foot in the stirrup.

First thing I would do is have a vet out to check your horse for an injury. He could be in pain and that why he goes into flight mode.
Also makes sure your saddle fits properly.

I'm not sure if your horses past, but perhaps he had someone ride him that was really hard on his mouth so he panics.

I would start with groundwork. So much can be solved through this by letting your horse know you are in the lead roll so they are safe and can relax. Also builds their self esteem. While doing this I would just stick to groundwork and don't attempt to get on.

So with my mare once we got her to stand while I got on she would get anxiety and just want to go which is natural for a scared or anxious horse. If she went forward I would just back her up to where she took off from and once standing give her the rain and relax. If she went to the right I would cue her to side step to the left back where we started and again relax giving her rein. It it was a complete and total **** show I would just circle her back to where we started and again relax. Never get mad, but just stick with it.
Use lots of praise when they are relaxed both on and off them.
This was no over night success and it takes lots of patience.
Once she would stand relaxed for a few minutes I would pop off so she learns it's ok and she isn't trapped as soon as I get on. Then start increasing the time. Just do mounting and dismount as you need to do one step to move to the next steps in riding. If they are doing really good keep it short and end on a positive note. If it's just seems like nothing is going right that day go back to a task your horse knows well even if it's simple ground work. Never end on a bad note.

 

[Alley]

Sorry though of something else.
Do you try to use your seat to slow him down a bit when he gets in an extended trot?
Not sure what you ride, but I'm English and I often use slowering my post down or sitting deep in my saddle while closing your hip.
Also what bit are you using? I know we tend to think the harder they are to stop the more of a stronger bit we need, but with my mare she is the softest in the softest bit. Also really depends on your hands. I struggle with my left land being hard and boy does my mare remind me when I'm doing it. She will take off if my hand gets too hard.

 

[Smilie]

Good suggestions above.
Do not just let him go! That can escalate to the point the horse bolts, soon as you put a foot in the stirrup
There are quite a few threads here, on horses that won't stand for mounting, so won't be repetitive
Not knowing the history on this horse, a lot of gaited horses are just taught foreward , so going back and teaching some basis is a good place to start.
Go back and teach on the ground first, that whoa means not just to stop, but stop and wait to be told to go again

 

[TXhorseman]

When they are nervous, some horses tend to “freeze” and not want to move. Others tend to think they can “run” from their anxiety and try to keep moving. When dealing with this second kind of horse, it is best to avoid getting into “fights”. A number of techniques help avoid confrontations. Of course, you always want to rule out physical issues first. I would also suggest using a well fitted snaffle bit for training.

As an alternative to trying to stop this horse or “just let him go”, try calmly turning him. When changing direction, a horse must think about maintaining his balance, so turning can help mitigate speed issues. Also, be sure your body is relaxed. When relaxed and balanced, you can depend on gravity to keep you on the horse so you don’t need to feel you must hold on with your legs. Tension in your body will tend to make your horse tense. For now, think of calmly applying a leading rein to get the turn since leg pressure results in increased anxiety in the horse.

To stop, you can initially employ one leading rein to turn him into the fence or wall – pull toward the fence or wall, not back. Once he stops, let him feel as if you are getting ready to dismount. A horse will normally stand still for that. It sometime helps to use the mental image of taking a car out of gear after stopping.

When your horse stops, be sure to release any rein pressure as a thank you to let him know he did what he was supposed to do. But don’t “throw away” the reins. You want to be ready to re-apply pressure by simply squeezing your hand or hands. If the reins are too slack, riders have a tendency to pull the reins too fast and too far, jerking with too much pressure – thus making the horse more anxious.

If the horse still tries to move off after stopping, say, “Walk,” before he takes the first step. In this way, he will be doing what you tell him.

Continue trying to help your horse relax as he walks. Release any tension in your own muscles. Do deep breathing exercises, talk softly, hum, or even sing quietly to your horse. Continue to work calmly on the stops trying to get them softer and softer.

Finally, don’t forget to praise your horse when he does what you ask. And when you get that first calm stop and stay stopped, get off. This will give your horse something good to think about until you work with him again.

 

[4horses]

He is ridden in a snaffle. I did start him in a side pull but switched to the sniffle, as clearly he's been ridden with a bit before. He was started before I got him, but significantly mishandled.

It's not pain related- he was probably beaten to try and force him to gait. Hence the nervousness and distrust in people.

His groundwork is really good. He knows walk, trot, canter, whoa on the lunge and on long lines. That's what we started with. We've done several lessons on desensitization, both to the whip and to the rope. I throw the rope around him now and he stands calmly. Like I said, he's made a ton of progress as far as groundwork. He was literally a shaking mess when I started him. We are following the Clinton Anderson groundwork series on YouTube.

His trot is not bouncy, as he has no suspension. So I can't exactly slow my post to slow him down. Can't even post to his extended trot.

I think letting him go is probably going to make the problem worse. Come to think of it, when on the lunge, he would take off and you could not get him to calm down unless you forced him to stop. (He no longer does this). I think he works himself up and doesn't know how to calm back down.

It's not a total panic, but lots of nervous energy. I did some clicker training to reinforce the whoa on the lunge. He may need a refresher on that.

He is much calmer in the round pen, then the arena. If I ride in the round pen, he listens better.

He doesn't like being near the barn which is next to the arena. I try to leave him tied at the barn after every session, as he is still suspicious of the barn.

 

[horselovinguy]

OK...some knowledge I have recently learned myself from a friend who owns and rides Paso's....

First off, many are taught as soon as weight/foot touches the stirrup it is time to move out...rarely quietly and with a near crazy attitude compared to a quarter horse mentality....
Pasos are not "quiet" but more of a high strung horse breed, full of energy and nervous moving.

So...think me crazy but I bet it works...
Get rid of the bit...ride in a hackamore noseband and look for a jaquima..
Pasos are taught to ride with a jaquima. Leather Jaquima for sale, bit hanger, Pisador Paso Fino, Style 009
It makes a difference, really! Check out that website for the tack of Pasos...
Yes, they do ride with a bit...but not by itself...they use that jaquima in combination.

Pasos also need to be ridden with contact, not a loose rein normally.
They are trained to search for contact, to feel for it and once they find it they settle down but are not "quiet" like you think you should have.
I have met Paso trainers and watched Pasos being trained...they are often tied to a solid pole, tree or such to mount then once astride the tie rope is released and off they go.
They are not normally taught to stand still to mount, it is something many do not know, they just don't.. but can learn with time and patience taught this.
Pasos are also ridden with strong long hanging human legs for cues, often feeling the sting of a spur if they not comply fast enough they are spurred...
I say this after watching some renown trainers train, speaking to a rescue and rehabber of the breed and asking so many questions.
I wonder if he is gaiting but without you supporting him he is falling out of it...it is a natural movement in the breed but there are several speeds and "action" amounts that are done.
My friends Pasos can gait, trot and canter..they just do those movements slightly different than say my big Quarter Horse.
A flat walk though is near impossible for hers...my horse must trot to keep up with hers just walking calmly.
Check out this site {https://www.pfha.org/index.php/the-breed/the-gaits/} and I found this to listen to and watch helpful in figuring out what the heck I was seeing {http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-exclusives/paso-fino.aspx}
I know the breed is very smart and affectionate, thrives on attention and praise...and will do anything to make you happy.
They need patience, kindness and remember as a rescue you truly don't know what the horse has endured and is having flashbacks to prior treatment and always may have some issues because of what the past life did to the animal.

I wish you much good riding time, patience and huge understanding to get through the rough spots ahead.
The riding partner you will uncover will be so special...enjoy discovering that partnership.

My apologies...those links don't all seem to work effortlessly...you may need to copy & paste some of those addresses to reach those sites..sorry.
:runninghorse2:.....
jmo..

 

[Kaifyre]

I disagree that Pasos, or any horse for that matter, NEED to be ridden with contact.

No horse needs contact in order to be ridden. Horses that are trained to be ridden with contact will be unbalanced if ridden without contact, until they are taught to ride on a loose rein. I'm retraining a TWH whom many people have told me "needs to be ridden with contact" and lo and behold, the first week or so was a train wreck but after a month of being ridden on a loose rein, she will travel at any gait without 'needing' contact. It's all in the way the horse is trained.

Any horse, of any breed, can be trained to move on a loose rein, at the gait the rider specifies, without breaking gait. One just has to put in the time and effort to do so.

-- Kai

 

[Smilie]

Agree with above. It is not the horse, but the training
I mean, what kind of training has a horse tied to mount, and then released to zoom off! Any horse trained like that is going to be ansty and have go but no whoa.
I know a woman, around my age, so no spry chick!, that bought a Paso off someone that used to run a trail riding outfit around the Crows Nest Pass, and that horse is a calm and easy to ride as any other horse, in a plain snaffle, although he can move out!

 

[horselovinguy]

I disagree that Pasos, or any horse for that matter, NEED to be ridden with contact.

Any horse, of any breed, can be trained to move on a loose rein, at the gait the rider specifies, without breaking gait. One just has to put in the time and effort to do so.
-- Kai

Agree with above. It is not the horse, but the training
I mean, what kind of training has a horse tied to mount, and then released to zoom off! Any horse trained like that is going to be ansty and have go but no whoa.

So you both got exactly what I was saying.... :wink:
Training issue and how I have seen Pasos who are trained and handled this way now react....

We all know certain "breeds" have some training practices others do not agree with...add another to your pile.
Those practices are far and widespread, reach all corners of the world and all levels of cruelty and hardship endured by the horse{s}.
Those types of practices reach into many, many breeds and how many are trained and it is "the accepted" way of training of said breeds and end result achieved method.

So,...
I don't know why...
I don't agree with it...
It is what I have observed and been told it is how it is done by many trainers...
Make it right, not in my book...
It is how it is done and now you, 4horses, are aware of it you can undo and correct with the knowledge of some of why the horse acts as it does..
Best of luck.
:runninghorse2:.....

 

[Reiningcatsanddogs]

Your key here is going to be patience. You have mentioned that he seems anxious, nervous, tense. I think TxHorseman covered a lot of how to work on that so I won’t reiterate, instead I will add to it.

If he rides better in the roundpen, then I’d spend a lot of time riding there.
The two of you are still new to one another. I have a horse who was “cowboyed” before I got him; treated roughly, inconsistently and unfairly. I called him my "head case" horse.

He never knew anything differently so his expectations were that this is just how humans treated him; he ran when he saw a halter and was like a keg of nitroglycerine when ridden. You just never knew at what or when he was going to go off. He was in a constant state of anxiety. It took him a bit of time to realize that not all humans were the same. Given time and effort he has calmed down significantly. Still a hot horse due to his performance breeding but, no longer so anxiety filled.

Riding your guy where he already does well, will give you the opportunity to give him maximum reward. In western riding we call that setting the horse up to succeed. Add to that the chance to build consistency with him and to show him that when he does well, he will be rewarded and when he makes a mistake, he will be (consistently)fairly corrected will go a long way to getting him to change his emotional habits. It builds a new set of expectations with you.

Fear is usually created by not knowing what is about to happen. His old expectations from his past experiences might have taught him that anything could happen randomly and probably, in his mind, undeserved. Consistency and fairness takes that out of the equation and thus reduces fear. Really focus on those three things; set him up to succeed, consistency and fairness.

It is a way of building trust and changing the way a horse may “feel” about being with humans making it into a positive experience.

I’d even go so far as to say to not put him in a challenging situation until the two of you have become more comfortable with one another; you can get him to easily relax and he trusts you enough to relax with you in familiar, easy situations before being put into a slightly more challenging one where he might "fail" or need correction.

 

[Smilie]

Horses ride better in around pen, because they soon consider those walls as controlling and guiding them.
That is why good trainers don't ride in a round pen for very long. The fact that he does not ride well outside of that round pen, has me seeing a horse with little training, as a possibility, as much as having the possibility of having been subjected to 'standard Paso' training methods.
While some rescue horses truly have been abused, many are just not trained or handled much.
Have you started many horses from the beginning?
Going right back to basics in good under saddle training, would still be the place I would start

 

[SilverMaple]

My freaked out, anxious mess of a Paso sounds very similar to yours. I've taken him back to the very beginning of training, and it's amazing how many things he's afraid of that he was expected to deal with to even get to the saddle and ride stage. He's afraid of people approaching him with a pad or blanket. He's afraid of the saddle. He's afraid of someone above him. I suspect once all that stuff is worked through, he will be a lot nicer ride. I'm finding that I have to address the fear before anything else.

 

[ApuetsoT]

How is he with chilling? Take him into the arena and chat with a friend, just standing around. Stand on the mounting block and watch someone ride. Use him as a wall and lean against him, again just chilling out, doing nothing. Eventually it'd be good to be able to just stand around and chill. I've had plenty of trainers who would ride a green horse while teaching a lesson because it's important for the horse to learn to hang out.

 

[Kaifyre]

Whoops @horselovinguy I guess I didn't get that from my first read ... I read it as you agreeing with the "all Pasos need contact" theorem. Yay, speed reading!

-- Kai