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I was looking at my horse's pedigree and she is a registered Quarter Horse. Her great-great granddam' s great-great-something is a Thoroughbred. How is she registered without being purebred?
 

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I was looking at my horse's pedigree and she is a registered Quarter Horse. Her great-great granddam' s great-great-something is a Thoroughbred. How is she registered without being purebred?
Quarter horses started out as Thoroughbred crosses and the AQHA still allows out-crossing to Thoroughbreds to this very day. Many horse registries still allow out-crossing with acceptable breeds, they're better than the dog registries in that regard.

Of course, the mere idea of an animal being "purebred" and having "registries" for those animals is a relatively recent invention anyway.
 

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Many Quarter Horses have Thoroughbred blood generations back, probably more do than don't.
Today Appendix registered horses are very common.
Not sure how the registry differentiates the papers but to make one "Appendix-AQHA" and possibly the other "AQHA".. :shrug:
I haven't seen papers marked Appendix but imagine they exist as it is spoken of by AQHA...the horses are recognized registered by AQHA.

Here is some factual background information from AQHA itself.
https://www.aqha.com/-/the-ailing-append-1
There are many other informational articles and many resources available through AQHA itself
https://www.aqha.com/home
:runninghorse2:...
 

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I am not so sure Quarter Horses "started out" as TB crosses, they were a mixture of the breeds available during colonial times -- Spanish, French, and English horses. There's considerable mythology about their origins, like most breeds which were developed as types long before there was a registry for them. I would take all of that with a big grain of salt. The AQHA (founded in 1940) recognized the importance of TB in the development of their racing program, so instituted an Appendix registry in which horses as much as 7/8ths TB could be registered and raced in the AQHA.

My neighbors when I was growing up raised colts for the AQHA track. I don't know what it is like now, but back then there was some sense that the racing Quarter Horses were for practical purposes Thoroughbreds and were not much like the ranch lines.
 

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I am not so sure Quarter Horses "started out" as TB crosses, they were a mixture of the breeds available during colonial times -- Spanish, French, and English horses.
In the 1600s on the Eastern seaboard of what today is the United States began to breed imported English Thoroughbred horses with assorted "native" horses. This included the Chickasaw horse, which was a breed developed by Native American people from horses descended from Spain, developed from Iberian, Arabian and Barb stock brought to what is now the Southeastern United States by the Conquistadors.

One of the most famous of these early imports was Janus, a Thoroughbred who was the grandson of the Godolphin Arabian. He was foaled in 1746, and imported to colonial Virginia in 1756. The influence of Thoroughbreds like Janus contributed genes crucial to the development of the colonial "Quarter Horse". The breed is sometimes referred to as the "Famous American Quarter Running Horse". The resulting horse was small, hardy, quick, and was used as a work horse during the week and a race horse on the weekends.

As flat racing became popular with the colonists, the Quarter Horse gained even more popularity as a sprinter over courses that, by necessity, were shorter than the classic racecourses of England. These courses were often no more than a straight stretch of road or flat piece of open land. When competing against a Thoroughbred, local sprinters often won.[citation needed] As the Thoroughbred breed became established in America, many colonial Quarter Horses were included in the original American stud books. This began a long association between the Thoroughbred breed and what would later become officially known as the "Quarter Horse", named after the 1⁄4 mile (0.40 km) race distance at which it excelled. Some Quarter Horses have been clocked at up to 55 mph. :- Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Quarter_Horse


Mythology or not, it's been pretty well established that Quarter Horses were created from Thoroughbred crosses. Thoroughbred's crossed with anything and everything from colonial times on that is.
 

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Not sure how the registry differentiates the papers but to make one "Appendix-AQHA" and possibly the other "AQHA"..
I haven't seen papers marked Appendix but imagine they exist as it is spoken of by AQHA...the horses are recognized registered by AQHA.
"An 'Appendix' American Quarter Horse is a first generation cross between a registered Thoroughbred and an American Quarter Horse or a cross between a 'numbered' American Quarter Horse and an 'appendix' American Quarter Horse. The resulting offspring is registered in the 'appendix' of the American Quarter Horse Association's studbook, hence the nickname. Horses listed in the appendix may be entered in competition, but offspring are not initially eligible for full AQHA registration. If the Appendix horse meets certain conformational criteria and is shown or raced successfully in sanctioned AQHA events, the horse can earn its way from the appendix into the permanent studbook, making its offspring eligible for AQHA registration." (Paraphrased from Wikipedia)


I'll have to get a photo - hubby's coming 2-yo is an Appendix and it says "Appendix" right on his papers. Not that it matters - he's a gelding and it's not like we're going to be doing big AQHA shows or anything. :tongue:
 

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That's interesting. I guess that makes sense, I've always assumed registered horses were purebred.

But they are purebred. The Quarter Horse wasn't put on earth by God in a day. Quarter Horses are a creation of Man - through selective breeding with Thoroughbreds, Arabians... even Percheron crosses! Hancock horses all came into being through a stallion born to a dam that was a Perch crossed with... something else... maybe not QH at ALL. Joe Hancock beat the pants off every horse that ever came up against him on the race track and his being considered a QH was controversial in the day and hotly contested.


Here's something that will blow your mind:


"Joe Hancock was registered as number 455 in the American Quarter Horse Association (or AQHA).[1] He was foaled most probably in 1926, although the dates are somewhat hazy.[2] He was a brown stallion, registered as bred by an unknown breeder, but later research determined that his breeder was John Jackson Hancock. His sire was a son of Peter McCue named John Wilkens and his dam was a half Percheron mare, although the AQHA's stud book gives his dam as "unknown." John Wilkens was inbred to the Thoroughbred stallion Voltigeur, as well as being a descendant of the Thoroughbred Glencoe. When he was registered, he was owned by the Tom L. Burnett Estate in Fort Worth, Texas, which later became the 6666 Ranch."


Today there are Appendix Horses... registered AQHA, but they are the offspring of a Thoroughbred and a Quarter Horse.


Go back to colonial times, and the colonists were already working on the seminal roots of what would be the modern QH - they started with Chickasaw horses aka Spanish Barbs. Then they started breeding Chickasaw mares to Janus - an Arabian stallion.


I encourage you to read on the development of the breed. It's very fascinating to see how it began and then consider the modern QH - there's a quarter horse for almost every discipline, from catty little cutting horses to leggy barrel racers, to quarter mile track racers. Their size ranges from the Quarter Pony (AQHA registered, but under 14hh) to almost 17hh (My best friend has a halter/cow pony bred gelding that is an absolute UNIT and he is 16.3hh. She has to climb him like a tree squirrel to get in the saddle). Their conformation comes in a wide range too - from lean and agile to bulky halter bred horses. Some are built like tanks and can drag a bull while others can reach speeds of 55mph - faster than a Thoroughbred!

PS - Digging deep into AJ and Red's bloodlines (our only two registered horses), and any potential registered horse we consider buying, is always fascinating to me. I love seeing Man O War, Bold Ruler, Easy Jet, Joe Hancock, Whimpy, Driftwood, Oklahoma Star or more modern, Dash for Cash (to name a few). Even if its many generations ago I still like knowing my horses are descended from QH and TB royalty.
 

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. Some are built like tanks and can drag a bull
Does anyone know which lines these are or which AQHA Breeders have these lines? I’m new to the world of “purebred” Quarter Horses, but I am interested in AQHA of these lines, thanks!
 

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Does anyone know which lines these are or which AQHA Breeders have these lines? I’m new to the world of “purebred” Quarter Horses, but I am interested in AQHA of these lines, thanks!
Halterbred lines for big and wide... I'm not familiar with a lot of them because I live in cowpony country - big bull dragging horses, catty little cutters, laid back ranch horses, cowy steer pushers and ropers, and barrel racers are The Thing here.

What are you wanting to do with one? Drag a bull or trail ride, or barrel race, or pole bend, or rope, or show in hand, or cut, or?

I've found the best way to get educated is to find a horse you like the look of, whether your going to buy it or not, and look at their bloodlines through AllBreed or from the papers themselves, then start googling the names of the horses with an * by their names (Allbreed specific) The asterisk means there's a photo of that horse* available for viewing. USUALLY those horses have done something to have a name for themselves. Not always, but usually, and just because the name doesn't have an *by it doesn't mean that horse was a do nothing. Sometimes a horse may have no name out there in Google Lands, but they're locally, or regionally, rock stars (Lucky Star Mac's progeny, the Lucky Bottom Cactus Mares were great producers of cutting horses, and known locally where I live to be the mothers of rock star cutting horses, but people outside our area or not familiar with the cutting world would have to dig deep to discover what a great line of horses Lucky produced.)

Anyway. Research, research, research the names on the papers, LOOK AT THE PICTURES of the foundation horses in the bloodlines of the horse you pick. Compare to the pictures of the horse you like - sometimes you can spot where It Comes From, whatever trait you like physically, by looking at the photos and... paintings - some bloodlines go back further than the advent of the photograph. I think you'll also be surprised by the appearance of the older lines - some of those foundation horses? NO WAY would I have bred THAT to anything. Some are just straight up goofy looking and frankly - ugly. I can see why the breeders of more refined breeds a century ago (Morgan, TB, etc) laughed at the up and coming quarter horses. Oh lord... they really are ugly, some of them.

I can tell you if you want a cow or bull dragging horse line to look at and read up on because it's interesting... a rough and tough, ready to get down to business line, with some size on them, and an interesting color: Blue Valentine horses. They have a controversial heritage through the Joe Hancock line: Joe Hancock (or just Hancock)'s mother was alleged to be half Percheron, so it was... problematic... to include Hancock horses into the AQHA registry. Joe was a race horse, btw... and as far as I know, he was NEVER beaten on the track. In fact it came to the point that other people would not put their horses up against him because it was such a sure thing they'd lose.

The Hancock horses and through him, Blue Valentine (Where the blue roan color comes from) quite popular in this part of the US with ranch and rodeo guys (especially the ranch-rodeo guys - their horses are their coworker, and rodeo companion too) because you can't out work them, they have great physical strength and endurance, and a Do Work mentality - but they take a long time to teach and start them. One of my friends explained it this way: You're gonna want to kill him (or her) until they're about 5. And what they learn in 15 minutes is ALL they're going to learn new for a month, and you're going to have build a solid foundation with patience and a LOT of repetition and then build on it... but once they learn A Thing, they know it and they are rock solid in that thing.

A lot of people don't have the time or patience to train them. You want to see some horses with SIZE - I've seen bull pushing horses at a PRCA level rodeo in N. Texas - the bull pushers were Blue Valentine and draft horse. Those guys were the ones that herded or roped and dragged an uncooperative bull back out of the arena. Massive, massive blue roans and you could tell they were treated like kings. They'd be a grade horse due to being a cross, but man... beautiful and simply huge. Very impressive animals.

Another line that's easy to read up on and very very prolific, is Doc Bar. If you own a QH, he or she probably has Doc or one of his sons or daughters, someone in the bloodline. They're not big horses. In fact Doc was bred to RACE and then he was kinda... meh, not feeling it... and they discovered he was a cowy little stink and made a cutting horse out of him. He was small -14.3, but that's a nice size for a roping horse - you don't wear your knees out stepping off, as this article explains. He went on to be one of the most prolific sires of AQHA horses... he's so common on bloodlines its just... not impressive to see, but it does help indicate the type of horse you have. Doc Bar horses can be jerks if they don't have a job. They like to Do Work and do work with cows. They're usually smaller built and have steady eddy personalities. I'm a little biased to the Doc Bar horses because we have one of his grandsons. The Old Man is 26 now, a retired kid's roping horse, and a beloved gentleman teacher horse. He belongs to my son, but today it becomes official - he is retired to adult riders and is being handed down to my 2 year old granddaughter so she can have the honor of learning from him.

If you're just wanting to research to research btw, another cool name to find in any quarter horse's lineage is Bold Ruler (Sire of Secretariat), or Easy Jet... Oklahoma Star... Dash for Cash... to name a few - those were race horses and some were legendary Thoroughbreds. I've seen Man o'War on AQHA bloodlines. Always cool.
 
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Really looking into AQHA lines as I would like to purchase an AQHA. Mostly for trail riding, but I’d also love to learn roping with the gang that ropes here at my barn and arena. I was interested in a stockier build, and something around 15h, as I am a bit stocky myself lol. I just really need something with a solid temperament, and I know some lines are really hot or overly cowy. @AtokaGhosthorse You gave me a ton of wonderful info, so thank you! I appreciate it, and now I have some more research to do.
 

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Does anyone know which lines these are or which AQHA Breeders have these lines? I’m new to the world of “purebred” Quarter Horses, but I am interested in AQHA of these lines, thanks!
If you want one that's built like a tank then you'll want to look at the Foundation Quarter Horses. Aim for ranch horse types. The FQHA and NFQHA are also AQHA horses, they just go back to the original horses.

I think this has been covered but I saw someone stated that QHs originated with TBs. That's not really true. QHs came from native horses of Spanish origin used by the earliest colonists and English horses that were imported to Virginia. It's one of the oldest recognized breed registries.

As for the mixing of the TB and the QH. There is an Appendix registry - it was created way back when the two different race organizations merged and they did it basically so they could keep all the horses that were already racing. The ones that were not QH were put in a tentative QH status and I'm not sure how at that time they received full QH breed status.

Now (I don't have an Appendix myself) but I think they have an X in front of the registration number. I believe once they have earned a ROM they can receive a full AQHA number but I'm not positive how that works since I have never really researched it. Mine are AQHA or NFQHA.

I think most of the original QHs came from Steel Dust, Joe Reed, King, etc. These were mixed with Spanish Mustangs and english horses...
 
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Really looking into AQHA lines as I would like to purchase an AQHA. Mostly for trail riding, but I’d also love to learn roping with the gang that ropes here at my barn and arena. I was interested in a stockier build, and something around 15h, as I am a bit stocky myself lol. I just really need something with a solid temperament, and I know some lines are really hot or overly cowy. @AtokaGhosthorse You gave me a ton of wonderful info, so thank you! I appreciate it, and now I have some more research to do.
One of my best friends since middle school trail rides her barrel racing bred fillies, but also has cow horse x halter bred horses. The cow/halter bred horses tend to be pretty good sized, have a steady eddy personality, and are athletic on trails. Might be too slow for roping - you want a quick horse for that.

For trail riding - You might look into a Skipper W/Impressive/Conclusive horse crossed with Doc Bar, Poco, Hancock (Just remember - GOOD HORSES but one that's been well taught will cost you some money and starting one is not for the impatient or faint of heart... and at any age they will not tolerate bullying out of humans). Driftwood is another good line for cow horse bred horses. Two-Eyed Jack lines are what my barrel racer friend just adores.

For a trail/ranch horse, look into cow horse names I listed above.

Here's you an article on the Top 5 Ranch Horse lines in quarter horses.
 
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