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Discussion Starter #1
I have a boarder who bought this Friesian mare a year ago for $8000. She is 18 and has had a few baby's.

When I got the mare in, I lunged her and she was dead lame in her right stifle. We had her x-rayed and she has bone spurs and obviously can't be ridden anymore.

From what I understand she has good breeding... Perhaps she could have another baby.

Anyway.. this lady would like to get a horse she could ride and was thinking about donating her to a light therapy program but there is a lady and my husband's work that is obsessed with friesians and has a place for a horse but doesn't ride at all.

What do you think would be a fair asking price?
 

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If the lady your husband works with is offering a "forever" home being nothing more then a pasture pet, that would be my choice if I was giving her away. With no more use then being a pet, I can't see that she has any real value. A therapeutic horse needs a certain temperament and even then, will be put to work which will cause some pain.

No matter who gets the horse, I would not give up the papers or ownership just in case there is a problem with the facility. I would do it as a free lease so if I ever decided to breed her (assuming it will not cause her any discomfort), I still can.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Her owner is hoping to sell her as a breeding animal. If this lady buys her she would breed her to get another freisian for herself.
 

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If she is breed sound and has good lines she could still fetch a few thousand. She still has a few foal bearing years on her.
 

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Well she isn't going to get her 8k back but depending on her bloodlines and quality she could still get quite a bit for her.
 

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I would sell her, if possible, depending on your local market. She could even earn someone else a profit (if she becomes a broodmare.) If the woman who wants her is willing to pay, then great.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah... she knows she won't get $8k back out of her. I feel really bad for her! So is $2500 a fair asking price?
 

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I think a fair price would be anything above $0, especially for the buyer because it's either 1.) give her away, or 2.) sell her.

I would see what the buyer could afford, or is willing to pay. I would probably price her around $5k, IF she has supreme bloodlines, and IF the buyer could afford it.

I know many people would be comfortable breeding a mare at her age, but myself, I stop at 15, 16 if there's a buyer request, just because our broodmares are horses we ride and work, and are at their prime for working on the ranch here.

We have 2 stallions and 14 broodmares. We breed 5-7 a year, hoping to get 4 colts.

It sucks that she's lame, but it'd be awesome to get her a forever home. That alone would lower her price to that lady because I would know she wasn't going to push her through some kind of intense pressure to train for something and sell her for a profit. And especially so if she's wanting a baby for herself and not to make a dime.
 

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I took to long to edit that last post.

I wanted to add that if the seller doesn't care if the new owner breeds her, to ask her price, and sell her for what ever she wanted. But again, if she were mine, and I was taking such a loss on her, I would make stipulations the other lady had to follow.

I would ask, say, 5k. If the lady couldn't afford it, I would drop the price to what she could agree on, but not sell her with papers. If the buyer wants to breed a colt to keep for herself, fine, she can have an unregistered colt, and if she wanted him registered, to contact me, I would give her information to the stallion owner, and registration could be arranged, but for a fee. But based on the fact you said that the buyer doesn't ride, she probably wouldn't care if the horse had papers or not.

This is the way we do our border collie pups, to prevent irresponsible breeding and to preserve the quality of our bloodlines. Such care should be taken with a breed such as the Friesian.
 

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Breeding an 18 year old Friesian mare can be risky. I know a lot of times they'll have problems. Just be sure she hasn't in the past had problems foaling. I have seen it all too often. People putting thousands of dollars into stud fees to older mares only to have the mare lose the foal two or three years in a row. Each time making it hard for the next round.

Also, what are her lines? Is she a ster mare? Model mare? Anything? Do you have her papers? Can you look at her papers?

I think her price is going to depend on her lines and her previous foals. How did her previous foals do at keurings? Any of them make ster? Any of them do well?

Also would you want to breed a dead lame mare who is old and sore? I know I wouldn't. That's just me though. If you want a Friesian save your money, wait till next fall. Grab a colt or a filly from the Friesian Connections for 5k when they do their Open House. I wish I had, but just didn't have the money at the time.
 

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>>>> I would ask, say, 5k. If the lady couldn't afford it, I would drop the price to what she could agree on, but not sell her with papers. If the buyer wants to breed a colt to keep for herself, fine, she can have an unregistered colt, and if she wanted him registered, to contact me, I would give her information to the stallion owner, and registration could be arranged, but for a fee. But based on the fact you said that the buyer doesn't ride, she probably wouldn't care if the horse had papers or not.

>>>> This is the way we do our border collie pups, to prevent irresponsible breeding and to preserve the quality of our bloodlines. Such care should be taken with a breed such as the Friesian.


Sorry, but I would run 100mph the other direction from someone who proposed selling me a lame 18 year old broodmare or pasture ornament prospect for $5000 without papers, and then wants an additional fee if I want to raise a registered foal from her.

This is an 18 year old mare, who, if the new owners act quickly, will get bred at 19, foal at 20..... she has what, maybe 3 or 4 foals left in her, if that many? Its not like dogs who can have a litter or two (if pushed) of 6 or more pups per year.

An additional concern would be, WHY is she lame in her stifle? There are some potentially inheritable weaknesses that should be ruled out (OCD, patella problems) before considering breeding this mare at all.
 

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>>>> I would ask, say, 5k. If the lady couldn't afford it, I would drop the price to what she could agree on, but not sell her with papers. If the buyer wants to breed a colt to keep for herself, fine, she can have an unregistered colt, and if she wanted him registered, to contact me, I would give her information to the stallion owner, and registration could be arranged, but for a fee. But based on the fact you said that the buyer doesn't ride, she probably wouldn't care if the horse had papers or not.

>>>> This is the way we do our border collie pups, to prevent irresponsible breeding and to preserve the quality of our bloodlines. Such care should be taken with a breed such as the Friesian.

Sorry, but I would run 100mph the other direction from someone who proposed selling me a lame 18 year old broodmare or pasture ornament prospect for $5000 without papers, and then wants an additional fee if I want to raise a registered foal from her.

This is an 18 year old mare, who, if the new owners act quickly, will get bred at 19, foal at 20..... she has what, maybe 3 or 4 foals left in her, if that many? Its not like dogs who can have a litter or two (if pushed) of 6 or more pups per year.

An additional concern would be, WHY is she lame in her stifle? There are some potentially inheritable weaknesses that should be ruled out (OCD, patella problems) before considering breeding this mare at all.


I would only sell without the papers if she couldn't afford the whole asking price, or something considerably close. The more you pay for, the better your benefit. But you must have missed my first post.... I think anything more than $0 is reasonable since she is considering giving her away to a therapy group that wouldn't be able to use her because of her lameness.
 

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I don't think theres enough alchohol out there that would make me want to pay $5k for a completely lame 18yr mare. Friesian or not, shes simply not worth it due to her age and being lame. I think $2500 is more than reasonable.
 

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^^^ yes, me too. Maybe 2,000 if she can only be able to carry a foal or to more. You know what? You should get he a breeding vet check so you know if she is even breeding sound/capable. Didn the lady even get her vet checked first? I sure would if I was paying 8k for a horse.
 

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didn't she have her vetted before paying $8000 ?? I'd say if shes breeding sound she could possibly get $2000 but other than that i'd just find her a good home . horses who get bred year after year,it tends to take a toll on their body and personalitys.
 

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>>>>> horses who get bred year after year,it tends to take a toll on their body and personalitys

I doubt that the stifle issue this mare has is due to being used as a broodmare--

Why would a well kept broodmare suffer either physically or mentally? Pregnancy is not very hard work for the mare for 8 months out of the 11, the weight increase is gradual and moves " naturally "with" the mare (unlike a rider perched on top of a horse steering it by its face) and delivery is over in a few minutes.....

A late term pregnant/ nursing mare needs to be well fed, but carrying and nursing a foal does not put wear and tear on legs, feet, joints, and body like hard physical concussive riding work does-- I have seen more horses broken down (and at a younger age) by having a riding career than I have seen broken down by being a broodmare.

Example-- I bought a broodmare a couple years back who had had seven foals, had #8 for me in 2008, and now is due with #9 in 2010, and she is fat, healthy and sound. My farrier comments on her great feet and legs. She also has a TON of personality and character-- she is still the boss mare, first one up to the gate for scratches and carrots, and her 2008 son has the most precious personality-- a sweet and funny colt. Momma taught him how to be a cool horse, LOL. Here she is at age 14 after 7 foals--


In fact, none of the broodmares I have owned have lacked in the personality department-- they might get a little rusty on their under-saddle skills if they are not being ridden as much, but thats just time and re-training (which any horse will need if they are not ridden consistently)-- they didn't lose their character.

I am curious why you would think that a "career" broodmare would be physically or mentally taxed by her job, beyond how horses with other manmade careers are taxed by their jobs?
 

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"
I doubt that the stifle issue this mare has is due to being used as a broodmare"

never said it did. . ive got a mare who was bred 10 years in a row (before i got her) and her body shows it. her top line and spine are all out of whack from carrying that many times & she looks MUCH older than she is from the stress.. some mares will get tears back 'there' from so many foals. some mares have died while trying to foal. not every process is a few minutes either. IMO i think its horrible that horses get bred that often. every one has their own opinion and thats mine. think to yourself on if you got pregnant EVERY year how you would feel.

theres PLENTY of horses out there that need homes and all these people keep breeding breeding breeding. why? MONEY . after thinking about breeding my other mare i decided not to b/c id rather give a living in need of help horse a home then bring another into this world that could just end up at the auction like all the rest.
 

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Your post said,

>>>>didn't she have her vetted before paying $8000 ?? I'd say if shes breeding sound she could possibly get $2000 but other than that i'd just find her a good home . horses who get bred year after year,it tends to take a toll on their body and personalitys.

So to me, it sounded like you were connecting her unsoundness with being bred year after year. Sorry if I misunderstood.

>>>>ive got a mare who was bred 10 years in a row (before i got her) and her body shows it. her top line and spine are all out of whack from carrying that many times & she looks MUCH older than she is from the stress.. some mares will get tears back 'there' from so many foals. some mares have died while trying to foal. not every process is a few minutes either.

True, some mares' bodies will change shape as you described from carrying multiple foals-- but not all. It is also true that some mares will tear-- but its not the norm, and unless it is very severe, tears "back there" heal very quickly with no lasting ill effects on the mare's quality of life-- most of the time you cannot even tell. As far as duration of labor--If from the time the water breaks, the mare is in lhard labor more than 30-40 minutes, it is an abnormal foaling-- most foalings progress rapidly at that point.

All of that said, horses with other "jobs" undergo stresses and injuries as well. Some horses being used as riding horses or show horses show their age (or look older) more than other horses, due to the demands and stress of their riding careers. Hard working horses who event, run endurance, ride cross country, play polo, and etc. have their bodies under the stress of hard work for as long or longer than a mare will be in hard labor-- and they are asked to do it several times a year, sometimes several times monthly-- rather than once a year.

Performing/riding horses can suffer injuries and wear and tear on their bodies , joints, feet, and etc. up to and including injuries that take their quality of life away, or take their life completelty. Some performing horses get sour about their work, some develop stall vices, gastrointestinal problems, etc.

Should we stop doing things like riding and competing with horses because these actions will "take their toll" on a certain number of horses' bodies and personlaities?

I am NOT advocating irresponsible breeding, over-breeding horses without a purpose or demand, or breeding poor quality animals-- I was just questioning how breeding a mare , even mutliple times, was bad for her body and personality, as compared to all of the other things we humans make horses do.

>>>>IMO i think its horrible that horses get bred that often. every one has their own opinion and thats mine. think to yourself on if you got pregnant EVERY year how you would feel.

I am a bad one to ask because my pregnancies, labor and deliveries of my 2 kids were easy and uneventful, and I felt greart. If my husband and I had wanted more than 2 kids I would have had no problem being pregnant several more times. My hubby's family had 6 six kids, and mine had 5, BTW.

>>>> theres PLENTY of horses out there that need homes and all these people keep breeding breeding breeding. why? MONEY . after thinking about breeding my other mare i decided not to b/c id rather give a living in need of help horse a home then bring another into this world that could just end up at the auction like all the rest.

"All the rest"? If I could go to an auction and find the kind of horse I am breeding for (which i do sparingly-- no foals this year, three last year, 2 this coming year) I would-- but I can't. I breed to imporve my breed, and I only sell an ccasional foal-- but my best mares have and will have more than a couple foals in their lives, because they are great mares, their offspring are in demand and they better the breed.
 

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Is there a reason why this lady hasn't bred the mare again? it sounds like this lady must be pretty knowledgeable about the breed so it makes me wonder why she hasn't the bred the mare herself.
I think the idea you have of breeding the mare once more is a great one, just be careful that the mare is in shape before you make the purchase. I think it would be a very good idea, especially if breeding is your goal, to have a good pre-purchase vet exam on her to not only check her over for other chronic problems but also get an expert opinion on what the odds look like as far as risks are concerned if she breeds again.

I think asking 3-4 for this mare, assuming she is in good breeding condition would be a fair deal for this lady and definitely a great opportunity for you.
 
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