[alfiearchiecharliedex]

Howdy! Firstly, these forums have been a godsend for me as a novice rider & first time horse owner, so thank you!
I'm jumping on here as I've just purchased my first horse - a 5yo gelding, Thoroughbred (unraced). Alfie was the one for me purely because of his temperament. As far as young TB's go, he is great! I'm primarily interested in taking him out on trails & dressage.
Which brings me to (one ha) of my questions, how much change can you expect in a horses movement.. like, everything can be improved on but surely it gets to a point where you hit the ceiling with what they can do.
Here's a video of my first lesson on him, I'd really love to get some opinions on what people think and what his potential may be.
Some facts

• he has a pretty severe case of parrot mouth (dentist is coming this week as I've noticed some reluctance when bridling + throwing up of his head when half halting/halting
• I am a relatively fresh adult rider (I had lessons for 2 years as a teen, and only started lessons at a school 2 months ago, then I decided to get a 5yo TB haha)
• I am super aware of my shortcomings as a rider. I'm working on being able to release more, and keep a more consistent contact (along with a million other things that need working on haha)
• this is our first ride in our new agistment. The arena ground isn't great.. it's quite hard and deep
• When I watched this video I was concerned that he looks lame in the walk? Is it possible for a horse to be lame in only one gait?
• I can see/feel his quite stiff in his hind, will this get better?

Any advice/critique would be thoroughly appreciated!!

 

[4horses]

I think he looks like a really nice horse... Most horses aren't going to walk in a show ring and win every class. If he has a nice brain and is a fun, safe ride then that is what matters the most.

Yes there definitely is a ceiling on how well they can move. Conformation determines movement in addition to training.

He is tossing his head at the walk. I'm not certain if that is a lameness or a horse unhappy with the bit/rider contact.

 

[horselovinguy]

The head tossing could be related to many things...
Teeth being checked is a huge yes please as he is the age for cap loose of baby teeth yet, points to quickly develop on a developing and growing horse as they start to get ridden undersaddle and asked to accept contact with a bit, ride with a bit of body-carriage you are already working on.
Lame....it is something if you see if continue to address as this is the age of navicular bone changes and since you just purchased him my thought is he is probably under the care of a new farrier and slight changes can change what is seen in a gait pro or con.

I see a fluid forward motion natural in the horse and his wanting to carry a natural nice head carriage and movement from mid-point of his body, kind of a nuetral zone of not pushing from behind but not dragging himself around on his forehand...
His way of going is longer and low knees...more a hunter frame if you leave him alone.
I can also see him doing low level dressage with the similar movements but more emphasis is on framing the motion.
His mind needs to be protected from "drilling" where he becomes resentful of same old, same old as to many do to their horses... Keep the sessions of work short and change them up, go back to it and don't become a robot of riding predictable keeps a mind fresh and wanting to learn and please.
Change where you work from the same ring to if possible trails or a open field so its different and make a trail ride also be a learning time since you can incorporate absolutely everything you do in a ring to some place on a trail ride with some thought from the rider.

I see a raw talent in your video.
Many directions to explore.
A mind that thinks and participates is a wonderful tool to have in your riding partner versus one who is reactive and disagreeable....preserve the mind you want cause if you cross into the undesirable it is near impossible to go back.
Enjoy your journey together, but low level of dressage I see and absolutely hunter style of movement, free forward gait and low knee action on the flat is a great place to start the discovery of what he likes, what you like and together what you love to do.
The rest of his development is a work in progress.....
🐴... jmo..

 

[jaydee]

I quite like him, he’s got a nice free forward movement, despite the head tossing, that could well be associated with his teeth.
His self carriage is good for his age.
The walk could be just laziness, it’s a common issue and why a good free walk in dressage tests scores so well. It isn’t easy!

He’s going to improve and give you more elevation as he builds up more muscle and the best route to that is lots of hacking outside of an arena - too much arena work on a young horse just leads to boredom and sourness

One of our members has a good journal detailing her journey with a lovely TB, you might find it interesting and helpful

The North Experience

I find myself in a totally new realm. Not only with a new horse, but a new barn, and a totally different perspective than I had just a year or even 6 months ago. I kind of feel like I've been asleep at the wheel for some time, just too engrossed in the "ideas" and blind to the realities of what...

www.horseforum.com

 

[beau159]

Firstly, these forums have been a godsend for me as a novice rider & first time horse owner, so thank you!
I'm jumping on here as I've just purchased my first horse - a 5yo gelding, Thoroughbred (unraced). Alfie was the one for me purely because of his temperament. As far as young TB's go, he is great! I'm primarily interested in taking him out on trails & dressage.
Which brings me to (one ha) of my questions, how much change can you expect in a horses movement.. like, everything can be improved on but surely it gets to a point where you hit the ceiling with what they can do.
Here's a video of my first lesson on him, I'd really love to get some opinions on what people think and what his potential may be.
Some facts

• he has a pretty severe case of parrot mouth (dentist is coming this week as I've noticed some reluctance when bridling + throwing up of his head when half halting/halting
• I am a relatively fresh adult rider (I had lessons for 2 years as a teen, and only started lessons at a school 2 months ago, then I decided to get a 5yo TB haha)
• I am super aware of my shortcomings as a rider. I'm working on being able to release more, and keep a more consistent contact (along with a million other things that need working on haha)
• this is our first ride in our new agistment. The arena ground isn't great.. it's quite hard and deep
• When I watched this video I was concerned that he looks lame in the walk? Is it possible for a horse to be lame in only one gait?
• I can see/feel his quite stiff in his hind, will this get better?

He looks like a lovely boy.

So how long have you owned him?
Did you do a PPE, or have you had him checked by lameness vet? If not, I think that should be your first step. Something looks "off" at both his walk and his trot (I can see it in the trot). It could be that he's green and young and that comes into play, but something just looks off. Stiffness can be a lack of fitness and lack of training ..... or it could be that something is hurting him somewhere. I always err on the side of making sure it isn't pain, before going to work on training and fitness.

 

[tinyliny]

what a nice pair! you will do well with him,, I feel certain.

 

[Milton'sMama]

I'll echo the others, I think he's lovely. I don't really see anything that makes me think he's unsound, and he's got a nice trot and canter. The trot is the gait that is easiest to improve. The walk is the most difficult. But as a young TB, I think he's already got the basic good movement to build on. The head tossing at the walk is probably due to not wanting to come through from behind into the contact. What does he do if you give him a long rein at the walk?

Less than ideal footing can really impact a horse's way of going and ability to use himself correctly. If the arena footing is as you described, if it were me I'd see if there was a field where I could ride him instead. My own horse is not a fan of deep footing. He's much happier on either grass or a firmer all-weather surface.

As with any young horse, I'd encourage a lot of long and low and having him push from behind over his back. Let him stretch his neck down, and encourage lateral flexion as well to loosen him up at the ribcage and in the neck and shoulders. Not that he looks tight. I really think he looks nice. But all horses benefit from this work and it will improve their way of going...getting that swing in the trot.

I find hacking is the best for developing a good, marching walk. Many horses lose that oomph in a boring arena.

Anyway! Have fun with you nice horse!

 

[Acadianartist]

I agree with everyone, he is a lovely horse with lots of potential! Yes, they can hit a limit eventually, but there is no way to know that until you get there. Lots of horses may not have had the perfect conformation for a discipline and yet manage to do very well. I don't see any reason why he couldn't progress very nicely and get to first level dressage fairly easily. Just resist the urge to push him too hard at his age. He has the potential to give you 20+ years of quality rides so think long term rather than short. Think about taking it very slow with him as he continues to grow, that includes days off, easy rides, and lots of variety!

Your riding is quite good for someone with limited experience! You look great together.

He is a bit on the forehand, especially at the walk, but that is something you'll both improve on with practice.

I did wonder whether he was a bit tender on the front, but it could be nothing (as others have said, head tossing can mean a number of things). But starting with a good dental exam, and good hoof care, he might just grow out of it, especially when he learns to use his hind end more so he's not putting all his weight on the front.

 

[Palfrey]

He is so cute! I love that one picture where you can see his toofers! Everyone has made great suggestions!

I see a lovely pair with the potential to have a very successful partnership!

I'm glad you chose dressage, I think of it like yoga or pilates, it builds strength, flexibility and agility. He will definitely become an amazing athlete. But that takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. Dressage is a journey.

Good luck to you!

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

thanks so much for the kind and super thoughtful resonses!!

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

I think he looks like a really nice horse... Most horses aren't going to walk in a show ring and win every class. If he has a nice brain and is a fun, safe ride then that is what matters the most.

Yes there definitely is a ceiling on how well they can move. Conformation determines movement in addition to training.

He is tossing his head at the walk. I'm not certain if that is a lameness or a horse unhappy with the bit/rider contact.

Yes, I totally agree. I was looking for a confidence building horse first and foremost, so his head is what matters to me most, and is the reason I fell in love with him . I was just curious as to what he might be able to do
The head tossing is hard for me to watch, and it's tough because (as you said) there's lots of things that could be causing it! One thing that mightn't be helping was that I thought I'd put him in a soft bit (frenchlink), but the one that I'd chosen had a flat joiner rather then a lozenge shape, which I now know is quite a harsh bit, especially for horses with overbite issues. It'll be interesting to see what the dentist says. I guess its just a slow process of elimination ha

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

The head tossing could be related to many things...
Teeth being checked is a huge yes please as he is the age for cap loose of baby teeth yet, points to quickly develop on a developing and growing horse as they start to get ridden undersaddle and asked to accept contact with a bit, ride with a bit of body-carriage you are already working on.
Lame....it is something if you see if continue to address as this is the age of navicular bone changes and since you just purchased him my thought is he is probably under the care of a new farrier and slight changes can change what is seen in a gait pro or con.

I see a fluid forward motion natural in the horse and his wanting to carry a natural nice head carriage and movement from mid-point of his body, kind of a nuetral zone of not pushing from behind but not dragging himself around on his forehand...
His way of going is longer and low knees...more a hunter frame if you leave him alone.
I can also see him doing low level dressage with the similar movements but more emphasis is on framing the motion.
His mind needs to be protected from "drilling" where he becomes resentful of same old, same old as to many do to their horses... Keep the sessions of work short and change them up, go back to it and don't become a robot of riding predictable keeps a mind fresh and wanting to learn and please.
Change where you work from the same ring to if possible trails or a open field so its different and make a trail ride also be a learning time since you can incorporate absolutely everything you do in a ring to some place on a trail ride with some thought from the rider.

I see a raw talent in your video.
Many directions to explore.
A mind that thinks and participates is a wonderful tool to have in your riding partner versus one who is reactive and disagreeable....preserve the mind you want cause if you cross into the undesirable it is near impossible to go back.
Enjoy your journey together, but low level of dressage I see and absolutely hunter style of movement, free forward gait and low knee action on the flat is a great place to start the discovery of what he likes, what you like and together what you love to do.
The rest of his development is a work in progress.....
🐴... jmo..

What a lovely response!
yes he'd just seen a new farrier a couple of days prior, so this may be a contributor.
I'd never thought about the importance of keeping work interesting, thank you so much for pointing that out. That's definitely something I'll incorporate into our rides. happy to have learned about it sooner rather then later. He's forward moving approach to work and his overall temperament is really precious, and something I want to preserve

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

I quite like him, he’s got a nice free forward movement, despite the head tossing, that could well be associated with his teeth.
His self carriage is good for his age.
The walk could be just laziness, it’s a common issue and why a good free walk in dressage tests scores so well. It isn’t easy!

He’s going to improve and give you more elevation as he builds up more muscle and the best route to that is lots of hacking outside of an arena - too much arena work on a young horse just leads to boredom and sourness

One of our members has a good journal detailing her journey with a lovely TB, you might find it interesting and helpful

The North Experience

I find myself in a totally new realm. Not only with a new horse, but a new barn, and a totally different perspective than I had just a year or even 6 months ago. I kind of feel like I've been asleep at the wheel for some time, just too engrossed in the "ideas" and blind to the realities of what...

www.horseforum.com

just finished north's story, what a journey! Thank you

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

He looks like a lovely boy.

So how long have you owned him?
Did you do a PPE, or have you had him checked by lameness vet? If not, I think that should be your first step. Something looks "off" at both his walk and his trot (I can see it in the trot). It could be that he's green and young and that comes into play, but something just looks off. Stiffness can be a lack of fitness and lack of training ..... or it could be that something is hurting him somewhere. I always err on the side of making sure it isn't pain, before going to work on training and fitness.

stupidly, I did not do a PPE. My trainer did a lameness check, but due to his price he said he didn't think a vet check was necessary... this is something that I thought was fine at the time, but has annoyed me in hindsight.
I'm getting a vet out this week to do a soundness check. Quite nervous about it

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

what a nice pair! you will do well with him,, I feel certain.

thank you 🥰🥰

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

I'll echo the others, I think he's lovely. I don't really see anything that makes me think he's unsound, and he's got a nice trot and canter. The trot is the gait that is easiest to improve. The walk is the most difficult. But as a young TB, I think he's already got the basic good movement to build on. The head tossing at the walk is probably due to not wanting to come through from behind into the contact. What does he do if you give him a long rein at the walk?

Less than ideal footing can really impact a horse's way of going and ability to use himself correctly. If the arena footing is as you described, if it were me I'd see if there was a field where I could ride him instead. My own horse is not a fan of deep footing. He's much happier on either grass or a firmer all-weather surface.

As with any young horse, I'd encourage a lot of long and low and having him push from behind over his back. Let him stretch his neck down, and encourage lateral flexion as well to loosen him up at the ribcage and in the neck and shoulders. Not that he looks tight. I really think he looks nice. But all horses benefit from this work and it will improve their way of going...getting that swing in the trot.

I find hacking is the best for developing a good, marching walk. Many horses lose that oomph in a boring arena.

Anyway! Have fun with you nice horse!

Thank you! I'll get chatting to my neighbours and see if I can convince any of them to let me ride on their property
we just started doing long and low last lesson. It's definitely a frame that I'd like to work in more just while I'm sorting myself out and while he's also sorting himself out

 

[alfiearchiecharliedex]

I agree with everyone, he is a lovely horse with lots of potential! Yes, they can hit a limit eventually, but there is no way to know that until you get there. Lots of horses may not have had the perfect conformation for a discipline and yet manage to do very well. I don't see any reason why he couldn't progress very nicely and get to first level dressage fairly easily. Just resist the urge to push him too hard at his age. He has the potential to give you 20+ years of quality rides so think long term rather than short. Think about taking it very slow with him as he continues to grow, that includes days off, easy rides, and lots of variety!

Your riding is quite good for someone with limited experience! You look great together.

He is a bit on the forehand, especially at the walk, but that is something you'll both improve on with practice.

I did wonder whether he was a bit tender on the front, but it could be nothing (as others have said, head tossing can mean a number of things). But starting with a good dental exam, and good hoof care, he might just grow out of it, especially when he learns to use his hind end more so he's not putting all his weight on the front.

That's great to hear! Even I'm starting to get bored of going around in the arena, I see plenty of hacking in our future
Aw thank you! Riding has always been a challenge for me, I'm not naturally athletic and have always struggled with basic coordination so that's nice to here

 

[unclearthur]

You don't say how big he is but the under-tracking looks to me like a balance issue more than lameness. He's on the forehand, as Arcadianartist says, and hasn't quite the strength - or confidence, maybe - to stretch underneath to rebalance himself yet. You see this a lot with taller, unfurnished TBs and warmbloods and they improve the fitter and stronger they get.
I think he looks really calm and settled for a youngster and that's half the battle.