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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 6 year old mare who is a danger by throwing her back leg out to kick anyone who attempts to get near her back end. The last farrier had to lay her down to trim her back feet. I asked him what I should do to cure this and he suggested to shoot her. Can she be corrected by lunging her and by keep moving her back end? I'm desperate!!!
 

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No reason to put a bullet in her for that. Take either a dressage or a shorter lungewhip and rub it around her butt, back legs, up by her udders, etc. When she kicks, hit her with the whip and shank her (don't need to use a chain, but jerk her lead). Eventually you'll be able to rub the whip all over without the kicking.
Then you have to actually risk yourself..Walk behind JUST out of her reach and if she kicks, hit her with the whip (preferably with someone at her head to shank her as well). Eventually you'll get closer and closer. If you absolutely have to walk behind her with no room to be out of kicking range, you need to walk as close as you can, like rubbing yourself against her as you walk around. If you're that close, she doesn't have enough momentum behind that to do anything but push.

But, you may want to find someone experienced with such if you aren't very experienced yourself. I wish you luck.
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A horse will never kick their lead mare. I walk behind and between my horses all the time without any worries of getting kicked. As long as they know I am there, I can trust them.

You have to establish firm leadership. I would go out and work the horse in the roundpen daily. She should back up on command, move her hindquarters away from you, and you should start desensitizing her hind end. Get a plastic bag and rub it on her (attached to a stick), or rub her all over with the whip.

I would teach her to ground drive as well. If she goes to kick out at you, get after her with the whip.

Is she bad with everyone or just the farrier? Does she warn before she kicks and under what situations does she get aggressive?

I think this is a training issue.
 

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Yeah, it probably is but if she's not safe around people something has to be done that will work NOW while the training issue is being fixed.
 

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No reason to put a bullet in her for that. Take either a dressage or a shorter lungewhip and rub it around her butt, back legs, up by her udders, etc. When she kicks, hit her with the whip and shank her (don't need to use a chain, but jerk her lead). Eventually you'll be able to rub the whip all over without the kicking.
Then you have to actually risk yourself..Walk behind JUST out of her reach and if she kicks, hit her with the whip (preferably with someone at her head to shank her as well). Eventually you'll get closer and closer. If you absolutely have to walk behind her with no room to be out of kicking range, you need to walk as close as you can, like rubbing yourself against her as you walk around. If you're that close, she doesn't have enough momentum behind that to do anything but push.

But, you may want to find someone experienced with such if you aren't very experienced yourself. I wish you luck.
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DO NOT do this. There is nothing more foolish than snapping a whip while you're looking down both barrels. She could just as easily back up a step and nail you before you have time to move out of the way, regardless of having someone at her head or not.
 

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Yeah, it probably is but if she's not safe around people something has to be done that will work NOW while the training issue is being fixed.
THAT does not work. Nothing will come in one training session, not can you fix it until you actually fix it. Everyone needs to know she's dangerous and to stay away, that's it.

I personally feel as though kicking is a simple issue to fix and it doesn't take terribly long.

There is no NOW with training, everything takes time, and nothing is an exception.

I fixed the cowkicking my mare did within two weeks. She doesn't dare kick at me or anyone else if I'm around because I beat her *** for it.

ETA, when I walk there, I usually have the horse tied when I do that, sorry I didn't specify that in my original post. The horse can only go so far back and still kick while they're tied, THAT is where you stand. If need be back the horse until it's almost at the end of the tie lead and then go from there if the judgement isn't great on the one standing behind. Hasnt backfired on me, but with anything, you do have to be prepared to move quickely.
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A kick chain will punish the kicking and in most cases stop it within an hour or so. The respect issue takes longer to fix and goes well beyond the kicking.
"beating her ***" is not training.
The horses that generally try to kick me are babies that aren't quite sure what's going on. Moving their feet fast and furious for a few minutes makes them absolutely sure I am not to be challenged - which is how you teach respect. Not with beating.
 

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totally agree with your method palogal but can i just add that with a kick chain the horse will teach itself to quit kicking and no one is close enough to be in danger
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can already use the whip snapping all around her back legs, rump, utter area, and belly. I also can put a tarp on her rump and run it down her back legs. But, when it comes to the farrier, WATCH OUT!!!
 

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I can already use the whip snapping all around her back legs, rump, utter area, and belly. I also can put a tarp on her rump and run it down her back legs. But, when it comes to the farrier, WATCH OUT!!!

It's a possibility she has some pain in her hips and it's uncomfortable for her to hold her foot. Perhaps he can use a cradle so she can rest the foot. My 7 year old had an injury and she started to kick the farrier in her recovery. My farrier used a cradle and took some extra time with her and she was much more reasonable. She has since recovered and is her same well behaved self.
OR she's just a brat that needs to learn respect :)
 

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This is not a 'green' horse. This is not a horse that needs slow, careful schooling and teaching. This is a spoiled horse!

Is she broke to tie solidly? If not, start there. Then, with the cooperation of a farrier or other knowledgeable person, teach her to let you handle her hind feet.

I would use a 'Scotch rope' to start with. [A Scotch Rope is a 25 foot long, soft, heavy, cotton rope with a loop in one end.] Make a large loop that goes over the horse's head and let it rest right in front of the horse's shoulder. Take the long end of the rope and 'sack ' her out with it. Get her used to it being between her hind legs and all around them from every angle. Then, have her step across the rope with one hind foot and come around to that side and the rope will rest under her pastern. Use the rope to pick up her foot and bring it forward. When she accepts having both hind feet brought forward and up off of the ground, see if she will let your farrier pick her hind foot up out of the Scotch rope and handle it. Most horses will but some REALLY spoiled ones will go back to kicking it away from the person.

If she still wants to kick, teach her that kicking hurts -- a lot. Put a lip chain on her and in one session, she will stop kicking. Use the Scotch rope to pick up her hind foot for safety reasons. If she kicks out --- you jerk hard. Timing is everything. We have inherited some really dangerous kickers, both horses and mules. When they are already very spoiled, it take a lot different approach. In 50 years, only one has not quit kicking with the use of a lip chain. She was an extremely dangerous horse that had hurt people including breaking a woman's leg. Her hind feet could only be handled by laying her down or Scotched with her hind leg tied up. We sold her to a 'pack string' with full disclosure and they treated her like all of the spoiled pack mules they already had. The spoiled mules had nothing on her.
 

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I would like to know what they have done previously when she does this? THis horse needs to think her life is OVER the instant she goes to kick. Unfortunately, it sounds like she has been allowed to behave like this, so it will be even harder to stop. If one of mine so much as LOOKS like they are going to kick, all hel breaks lose. I have also been known to put the toe of my boot as hard as I can into their belly when they try-while screaming and carrying on like a maniac. Most do not do this again. And, the look on their faces is priceless. Doesn't have to go on long,(3 seconds is the saying....) but HAS to be quick and a HUGE reaction.
So, what did your farrier do the first time this brat tried to kick him? My guess is he backed off.....because perhaps he was afraid the owner (OP) would be angry if he disciplines the horse. My farriers are of the same mindset I am. Kicking kills, and it needs to STOP. Right. Now.

At this point, I think you have gotten some really good advice from Cherie. But, if the horse ONLY does it for the farrier-the farrier has to be allowed to "man-up"....and react as the owner says.
 

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I worked with a big gelding that allowed grooming only so far then would fire a shot. Using a knotted halter I made a point of triggering this reaction. Every time he kicked I yanked his head around hard making his front end move. When he'd let me groom his hip, he was rewarded with scratching his itchies. My brush was soft so it wasn't hurting his skin. It took about an hour before he kept his foot on the ground. He was left alone for a while and I started again. His foot never came up so he was rewarded with lots of scratching. Nothing like bug season to help achieve this. Once we'd sorted this out he was a gent about having his hooves cleaned and trimmed.
 

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use a wide nylon dog collar with about 10 to 12 inches of medium heavy chain on it stand up against the hip and slowly reach down and hook the collar right above the hock if you stay up against the hip and leg you will feel when the horse is about to move
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have had this horse about a year, the man I got her from said she did not kick or bite, yes....bite too. I feel she was very abused and decided to keep and work on her, so here we are. I have never had a horse with such disrespect problems, so didn't know where to start. I started watching rfdtv and learned to teach them to respect you. Well, she respects me, but everyone that comes near her, has to do the same. My farrier was "man-up", he started with running her in small circles and kicking her in the belly, put the lip chain on, and finally running her in circles to get her to lay down. She was just so stubborn and "spoiled" and wanted her way or no way.
I will be the first to admit that I need to spend more time with her, and that is my duty this summer. I see that now, and will keep you posted on my progress.
 

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hook a medium heavy chain to a wide dog collar stay up close beside the horses hip and leg and hook the dog collar right above the hock if you stay close you will feel when the horse is fixing to move
 
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