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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As you know I am working with Charlie on ground manners. He should be able to back up on the ground but the only way he will do it is if I put my hand on his chest and push while saying BACK. I want him to respect me more and for him to learn how to back up without me needing to physically make contact with his body. Any ideas?
 

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First work on disengaging his back end. When you point at his butt he needs to hide it and face you, looking at you with both eyes. Make sure he doesn't get in to your personal space. If he does, throw your hands up, stump your feet, do whatever it takes to show him he needs to back away.
Try this kind of exercises: (have him on a lead rope at first and use a crop or a stick)
 

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That was good, All4Chrystal! My Morgans both came to me trained similar - 'wiggling the rope' for backing up works best... My QH requires more verbal/aggressive cues, however, although she's a compliant horse otherwise. Wonderful video! :)
 

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Ahh great video! I think Charlie would just stand there if I moved to his sides, and if i move at him he just stays firmly planted on the ground! He's being stubborn and I'm not sure what to do!! He also will walk around and stand facing my back... like be squared up behind me. I have no clue why.
 

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Ahh great video! I think Charlie would just stand there if I moved to his sides, and if i move at him he just stays firmly planted on the ground! He's being stubborn and I'm not sure what to do!! He also will walk around and stand facing my back... like be squared up behind me. I have no clue why.
He may be seeing just how much he can get away with, and if you are indeed the alpha - my first horse, Star used to do this all the time when I got her, and when she realized she 'didn't have my number after all', obedience set in nicely! :)
 

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First work on disengaging his back end. When you point at his butt he needs to hide it and face you, looking at you with both eyes. ...
Hmmm...if my mare did that, I'd kick her butt. I don't know what disengaging the rear has to do with backing a horse up. But then, I just tug backwards on the lead rope, or push her chest. :?

Ahh great video! I think Charlie would just stand there if I moved to his sides, and if i move at him he just stays firmly planted on the ground! He's being stubborn...
Maybe, or maybe he's like my horses. I don't want them moving around when I go to their sides or approach their head.
 

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Disengaging the back end is important. You have to be able to move your horse's feet in order to make him move backwards. Especially if he is one of those that plant themselves and refuse to move. I'm sure your horse backs up, however every horse is different. Sure she can teach her horse to back up by wriggling the rope, but you got to start somewhere. Some horses are more willing to back up than others. Horse that is not willing to move is not going to back up unless you have a way to move his feet. One step at a time... ;)

Not sure why would you kick your horses butt for responding to you??? May ask why?
This horse was moving the part of his body I asked him to move. If I asked him not to move he wouldn't have. In fact I could park him in the middle of the round pen and run in circles around him, while cracking the whip, and he would not move a muscle; all 4 legs would stay glued to the ground. If horse does what you ask for, it doesn't deserve getting it's butt kicked.
 

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If I walk past my horse's head, I do not expect her to follow me. I do not want her spinning around because I walk back and forth. If that is how you have trained your horse, fine. I don't see it as a positive, so I don't want my horses doing it.

The OP's horse will back up with pressure on the body. So the problem is not getting him to back up, but getting him to back up on a cue the OP desires to use. I do not see the OP's problem as a respect issue, but a training one - what cue does she want to use? The horse needs to be trained to respond to THAT cue, since he already backs up with a different cue.
 

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I need my horses to back up at all times - not just when they're attached to a rope so I don't use it as part of training other than in the first stages when I put some pressure on the horses head with it at the same time as putting pressure on the chest to push the horse backwards while saying 'Back'
If a horse doesn't respond to a gentle push then it gets a sharp slap and a more demanding verbal cue and it keeps getting that until it steps back and I then go back to the lighter contact.
Don't ask for too much at once, a few steps at a time is enough to start with
I don't rely at all on a lot of pressure on the head for backing up because I don't want to make that a habit that resurfaces under saddle - you want the horse to back up at the lightest touch on the reins
To start with repeat the word 'Back' for every step, say it loudly and clearly - your horse will eventually learn to associate it with the action you want from him
 

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This horse was moving the part of his body I asked him to move. If I asked him not to move he wouldn't have. In fact I could park him in the middle of the round pen and run in circles around him, while cracking the whip, and he would not move a muscle; all 4 legs would stay glued to the ground.
If I walk past my horse's head, I do not expect her to follow me. I do not want her spinning around because I walk back and forth. If that is how you have trained your horse, fine. I don't see it as a positive, so I don't want my horses doing it.
Where did I say my horses move when I walk past their head? They only move when I want them to move, when I ask for "whoa" they do not move.
 

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I was going off the VIDEO. You walk back & forth, and your horse shifts to keep facing you. Please remember I do not know you or your horses. All I know is what you have posted on this thread before I make a response. In post #6, my total knowledge was based on post #2.

"If horse does what you ask for, it doesn't deserve getting it's butt kicked." I was not threatening YOUR horse. I said if my horse responded the way the horse did in the video, I'd be unhappy with her and would correct her. Horses are not born with knowledge of specific cues. Mine are not trained to behave that way, and would not.

You can train your horse how you like. If you are happy with the results, fine. But the OP's description does not sound like a disrespectful horse...just a horse who hasn't been trained to respond to the cue the OP wishes to use.

If the OP's horse HAS been trained to a different cue, but refuses to obey that cue, THEN there is a different problem.
 

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Therefore saying "if my horse responded the way the horse did in the video, I'd be unhappy with her and would correct her" is not right.
I agree there are different ways to train the horse. You said you are going off of the video...I think it is pretty clear the horse does what I ask for.

If you pay attention, the horse doesn't move when I ask for whoa. I never walked past this head while he was asked to "whoa" so you only assumed what his reaction would be.
This horse is trained well.
The only reason I posted the video was to give the OP idea on what kind of exercises to try to work on.

There are different ways to train horses. I am not saying you train yours wrong way. It is you who is trying to say my suggestion doesn't work.
I have worked with horses that reacted very much like the horse OP described, and it has worked for me.
I was simply trying to help. I never had a problem to teach a horse to back up and I have trained all kinds. It is up to OP to decide if she wants to try it or not. I am not forcing my ways on anyone.
I choose to train the way I do, because I had good luck with it and I never have to be rough with the horse.
 

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^^ Chill.

My point was, as I've repeated now, that training differs and the horse cannot behave it a way it was not trained to behave. I don't give a rat's rear how you have trained yours. For the THIRD time :evil:: it is your horse, so train it any way you wish.

If the OP's horse has already been trained to back up with cue X, and now is not, that is different.
 

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What you both are talking about is intention. the handler's intention is everything. If the body language says, "move your hiney", the horse will read that and move his hiney over when the person walks around. If the person's body language says, "stay here, I am just walking around you to check the cinch , or to grab something from the ground behind you , or .. ." the horse will know that there is no "push" in the riders' body, so will stand put.

in that video, I found it pretty hard to detect the change of intention in the handler's body, but apparently, the horse can. I thought her body had a lot of "push" in it, all the time, even when she walked up to reward the hrose, but the horse can tell the difference.\

There is one problem with "chasing " the hind around, and that is that the horse learns to plant his front feet, and spin the hind around behind him. and, the horse can sometimes get so used to doing this, that they do become hard to move around , without causing them to spin around their front legs, like they are trying to screw them into the ground. And they will try to keep you in one eye only, such as their left eye.

More than just having the hrose swing his hind over, you might want the horse to first look over at your and maybe bend his neck around the corner a bit , so that when you do to ask the hind to move over, he is doing it softley bent, instead of swinging like a gate on a hinge, heavy on the forehand.

To guage if a horse is really backing up well, watch to see that the diagonal pairs lift and move together . the horse will really have to be rocked back and balanced to do this. There is not reason why a person cannot do this with a lead attached.
 
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