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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here are a few pictures of my geldings front feet,how do they look? Couldn't take pictures outside it raining once it quits i can get more pictures. He was very sore after being shod but got over it after a few days. Was done beginning of this month.
 

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I don't know too much about what to look for on a shod horse, but to me it looks like both feet are taller on the medial side. Just what I see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As I thought he's not doing a great job. The clenchs not be flat against the hoof wall...horse wasn't real well behaved.

Guess his feet are what they are for now. He can't be ridden barefoot hoof boots don't work. So I'm stuck with not great work.
 

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I really hate to see this....Farriers are mostly impossible. Everyone feigned shock when I said I had never left a farrier on his own to do my horses...this is why. If you look at a hoof, and it looks crooked, you MUST say something. You have to make it sound like THEY saw it. (“OMG, is that foot off balance?.?” Is NOT what to say!!) Lol.
 

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So... The m/l imbalance is obvious, BUT without further knowledge, I'm not going to say it's *necessarily* wrong. Look at the line through the middle of the limb - the whole(visible) leg is on an angle, appears horse is base narrow. It could well be 'imbalanced' because the horse *wants* to be imbalanced, due to body issues. The farrier should NOT just cut a 'square' foot onto a crooked body.

And hooves are flared, 'stretched' forward, but in order to nail rims onto a foot, if that foot is not 'tight', then the farrier, even if he knows better, often must make compromises, in order to have enough wall to nail to. He has rasped off the very lower portion of the flares, but of course, he couldn't address them adequately at ground surface, without removing too much to fit a shoe to.

But so saying, the shoe is too big for the foot, if it was fit right. I've drawn lines on the foot, to show *very roughly - can only guess from this pic* approx where the heel platform & breakover 'should' be. I do believe, regardless of necessary compromises for shoes, that this should be adhered to, rather than the shoe fit to the foot as the farrier has found it. And then, as more of an idea, I shifted the shoe back in the pic... and made it shorter & narrower, as it would fit to a 'tight' hoof capsule.

The other thing is, if the shoe is flush with the sole, meaning there's permanent pressure on the sole, this can cause pain/damage, esp when soles are already thin. Flexible shoes can negate that problem.

Guess his feet are what they are for now. He can't be ridden barefoot hoof boots don't work. So I'm stuck with not great work.
Yes, if your priority is for shoeing conventionally & riding the horse, without ensuring hooves are healthy first, at the amount/on terrain that causes you to feel hoof boots or other alternatives aren't worth it, then to a certain degree, you're stuck. Even the best shoeing job, if using steel peripheral rims, with be compromising the hooves further.
 

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OOPS... loosie posted same time as I...


Not only does this effect the hooves, but look closely at the pastern/fetlock/ankle joint and see that the "off" is now going to effect right up the horses anatomy making them unbalanced...
Sore, yes you could say there is a reason to be sore when his feet and everything else now might by unbalanced. :shrug:

I've seen worse shoeing jobs, I've also seen better.
I don't appreciate his finishing of the hoof as he does...
I would though like to know what nails he used cause some are not supposed to be clinched and finished in certain ways most are accustomed to seeing.
I'm not suggesting, but was anything said about seedy toe or WLD regarding your horses as I know there is a different nail for that affliction...???
I'm used to seeing a frog cleaned up better than those were...
The shoe looks small for the hoof or not well shaped, not sure which...it just looks overgrown to me on a new shoeing application.
And, the shoes look used to me...
Were the shoes reset from a previous shoeing?
The toes are worn on both feet.
And it is hard to make out with the shadow and dirt but is the heel of the shoe going to make contact with the edge of the frog {shoe heel not spread enough} that every step the horse takes he takes a shot of concussive action to his nerve sensitive frog???

In all fairness to the farrier I would like to see the horse with critical critique pictures done to see if he/she is trying to correct/work with a conformation issue or stance the horse exhibits though too.
There are always 2 sides to every story and picture depicted and although not liking some of what is seen I want to know if it is a farrier error or farrier working within limitations due to a horses build...
:runninghorse2:....
jmo..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@horselovenguy we are 3 weeks into shoeing cycle so yes shoes are showing wear. No not resets will be done again in 3 or 4 weeks need to schedule it here.

He's not had issues with seedy toe. I did clean up frog some took of tattered peices. Farrier doesn't carve the frogs or soles, also never trims down bars.

Yes he pretty much fit hoof to the shoe then rasped to down. Only trimmed very little hoof wall with nippers. I have to be here to hold horse's this one doesn't always behave. And we had to do some discipline.

Yes there are copper coated nails I asked about him using those. Nope he won't so not an option.
@loosie I think the picture is making him look crooked. He is a bit base narrow though. Horse had body work done by a vet/chiro was about 3 weeks before farrier visit. Shoes he put on fronts are size 0 i asked what size he was using.

I have tried to get him to do eponas he was willing to try it but never has them with him. Then he told me they won't last two weeks...with as much as I ride. Then the terrain is rough rocky.

His back feet are messed up right hind is wonky not balanced I can see it. Plus he is wearing toe off on just that hind foot. Will get more pictures obviously tomorrow supposed to be nice out.

I had his feet fairly good early winter then it got super cold and I didn't keep up his hooves.

Vet/chiro said horse is body sore do to feet this last visit. Said he was better earlier in winter then now..I was doing his feet at that time.

I am not totally against hoof boots..just trying to fit them with current state of their feet. Is really hard. So there is probably sole pressure from shoes? I'm tempted to pull shoes at least off hinds. I've asked farrier about doing pad with some kind of packing in hoof. He never gave me an answer. I don't know what to do if I should keep farrier or just do horse's myself.
 

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Why do you insist on riding a horse so much/hard if he has foot issues. Why not put the well being of the horse first? You have so many issues wiht this horse it seems like but instead of just taking a break from riding and getting things figured out you just keep pushing him...putting up with crappy farrier work...just so YOU can continue riding. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I've seen so many posts of your issues and yet you just continue riding for multiple hours multiple days a week. Put your horse first. Also, maybe try getting some type of calming paste or work on his training. Stop putting your farrier at risk and help him be able to do a better job. You're horse has been bad for over a year for the farrier...get that fixed.
 

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It is entirely possible that the boots don’t work because the trim is not correct. I have to do feet every 2 weeks to use the boots. A horse landing toe first will shove right through the boots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It is entirely possible that the boots don’t work because the trim is not correct. I have to do feet every 2 weeks to use the boots. A horse landing toe first will shove right through the boots.
That is probably the issue toe first landings and needing more frequent trims to keep feet in better shape. Think renegades boots would be best... but his heels need to be shorter.

Have appointment to get them trimmed/shod here mid may. Will see how feet look after that, will see if he can't shorten up heels an toes.

It's a late afternoon appointment so will ride an get horse tired then he'll stand good.. has worked in past. He's just to high energy always on the move. Have tried different calming paste they don't make much difference.
 

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@horselovenguy we are 3 weeks into shoeing cycle so yes shoes are showing wear. No not resets will be done again in 3 or 4 weeks need to schedule it here.
I would be trimming/resetting 6 weekly at the absolute outside. Less for horses with 'issues', assuming i thought the horse needed shoes for some reason despite 'issues'. I would also remove shoes at any sign of soreness.
Farrier doesn't carve the frogs or soles, also never trims down bars.
It's possible he did a 'rush job' because of the horses behaviour.

I have tried to get him to do eponas he was willing to try it but never has them with him. Then he told me they won't last two weeks...with as much as I ride. Then the terrain is rough rocky.
You can always order Eponas yourself. Yeah its poss that amount/terrain you ride, they will wear really quickly - although they shouldn't be wearing quicker than boots & as greentree said, there's likely something else going on if they 'fall apart' on you so quickly.

But even if it was purely to do with wear & hooves were in great shape, I'd personally give preference to wearing out plastic shoes/boots rather than wearing out horse. If shoes wear that quick, can you imagine the wear on his joints & tendons etc, aside from strain to the hoof?

If terrain is rough & rocky, as said before, I'd absolutely be padding, or using eponas or Easyshoes to protect the underneath, rather than just protect walls from excessive wear.

He will be wearing toes a lot quicker than the rest, as they're long. If one hind is wearing more, chances are ime this is from an 'upstairs' body issue. It is possible the body issue is to do with being worked so hard on imbalanced, uncomfortable feet, so maybe chicken or egg situation there.
Vet/chiro said horse is body sore do to feet this last visit. Said he was better earlier in winter then now..I was doing his feet at that time.
Not sure I get that - so early winter and now he is/was better than he was in late winter? But he is still sore now.? Were you shoeing in late winter? Riding much?

If prob with boots is 'current state of feet' then as said I'd be giving preference to getting them right, over riding. But there are different boots - such as Clouds for one eg - which cater better to compromised hoof shape.

really hard. So there is probably sole pressure from shoes? I'm tempted to pull shoes at least off hinds. I've asked farrier about doing pad with some kind of packing in hoof. He never gave me an answer. I don't know what to do if I should keep farrier or just do horse's myself.
As said, I'd not have shod those feet in the first place & would have pulled shoes at first sign of pain.

As you have said horse was difficult for farrier - & he is sore thru body too - that may be the reason farrier didnt bother to entertain extra work of pads/packing. Or maybe he just got preoccupied & forgot your question & you forgot to remind him.

As to this farriers work, as said, all things considered & having only a few pics to go on, I wouldn't want to make any big judgements on him.
He's just to high energy always on the move.
If he *cant* relax, for the farrier or otherwise, then he sounds extremely anxious & agree that this should be addressed, & training, nutritional balance & pain/discomfort - or a combo of those factors likely cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@loosie Horse wasn't sore early winter when chiro came. He was sore this last visit 3 weeks ago.Feet causing issues with body soreness is the lack of balance uneven heels.

As far as balancing diet, pretty hard to do when there is literally no feed on market, he'll eat for longer then 1 to 2 weeks.

I've been working on his training with having feet handled he does just fine for me. He doesn't like current farrier he pins ears at him threatening to bite.. when he is working on front feet. I don't obviously let him bite I get after him for being ugly.

Farrier is very patient and kind doesn't rough handle horse. I've showed farrier how horse behaves for me so he knows horse can be good. I'm at a lose on how to change his behavior for farrier.

I use treats when horse does the right behavior like not pinning ears trying to bite. When he is pinning ears I give him a sharp jerk on lead rope and tell him stop it.. or i have him yeild hindquarters disengaging make him yeild front end, then back up. Then have him stand again an farrier trys again to pick up foot to trim. It's a real challenge sometimes, this last farrier visit was a very challenging one.

Have appointment for 6 weeks out..will ask if he can do horse more often. Called chiro he's booked till end of may. Will be getting pictures here feet were muddy so will take hose to them tomorrow.

I do want what's best for horse not easy to accomplish as far as his feet.
 

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Could it be he had something going on before the farrier came?
Then when he started having his feet trimmed and shod he was upset because it was uncomfortable?
Just a thought.
 

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I think this is beyond a chiropractor’s scope....I would call a good vet, and get feet x rays and a good shoeing prescription, then have the vets farrier shoe him.
 

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If a horse won't stand for the farrier, I'd have him sedated so the farrier can do a good job and stay safe. There's no excuse for a horse to be hard to handle for the farrier more than once. Either fix it or sedate. It could well be why you have a hard time finding good farriers. The decent ones have more business than they can handle with horses who stand well. They won't bother with one that won't. Farriers all know each other, so if you have a problem horse, it's known to all of them. A farrier's livelihood can be ruined by a horse that yanks his feet away, bites, or won't stand. If I were a farrier I wouldn't work on a horse like yours either.

I'd also be looking at hauling this horse somewhere for a complete physical and lameness exam. He won't eat. He looks sore in nearly every photo you post. He's got hoof problems. He's got behavioral issues likely tied to pain. He's got something going on and your vet isn't able to find it. He needs to go 'up the chain' to a better vet who can sort through metabolic/endocrine issues and other potential causes if you want to continue riding him. I feel for you; it's hard to have a horse who isn't thriving and living in an area with a lack of good vets. Been there done that. But your horse is obviously suffering from something, and continuing to ride him and say 'he'll have to deal' isn't fair to him. I honestly don't think you'll be able to fix his feet until you find the underlying cause. His feet are a symptom, not the problem in and of itself. He has all the hallmarks of a horse suffering from some sort of underlying inflammatory/metabolic/endocrine/what-have-you and it's all related.
 

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If a horse won't stand for the farrier, I'd have him sedated so the farrier can do a good job and stay safe. ...If I were a farrier I wouldn't work on a horse like yours either.

I'd also be looking at hauling this horse somewhere for a complete physical and lameness exam. He won't eat. He looks sore in nearly every photo you post. He's got hoof problems. He's got behavioral issues likely tied to pain.

...But your horse is obviously suffering from something, and continuing to ride him and say 'he'll have to deal' isn't fair to him.
Thank you for putting this all so plainly in one post, that I've picked the 'headlines' out of. I've kept seeing & saying bits about it in my responses, but didn't want to be 'harping' too much...

Rambo, I do also understand your frustration & sympathise too(tho not that you'd ride a horse like this, let alone ride him hard) - I've had beasts that vets & farriers were clueless as to what was wrong - but I think it's overdue time to 'ramp up' looking for answers, and give this horse a break.
 
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