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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Opinions of him?

My personal opinion is that he has about the worst two-point I've ever seen - or people just photograph his worst moments! In every picture I've seen, he practically lays on his horse, he's gripping with his knee, and his leg slides back...I know he's a professional, but how is he a professional with this position? I just can't fathom him getting away with that.

Then again, I've noticed a lot of riders "lose their position" over high jumps. Is this the norm? Or considered right? I've been thinking this for a long time but once I got my issue of In Stride and saw two pictures that looked like me my first year of showing, I had to say something!





I also noticed lots of other riders being "butt high" over large fences. Is that correct? I only jump about 2' 6" and just wanted to see what everyone thought.
 

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A lot of well established riders don't have the best position. My thinking is that unless we are at their level, then we have no room to talk.

What you deem as being high jumps, is not to me. However Reed Kessler is obviously a lot above me, and her position isn't great either.

If it's working for them, then it's working well.
 

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It might not be a 'perfect seat' but a lot of riders are more interested in getting clear rounds than they are of how they look and if the horse is doing well then it can't be bothering his performance
If you think that looks bad then this is UK showjumper Annette Lewis who had many wins at top level with this horse Tutein despite her very odd position
 

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It might not be a 'perfect seat' but a lot of riders are more interested in getting clear rounds than they are of how they look and if the horse is doing well then it can't be bothering his performance
If you think that looks bad then this is UK showjumper Annette Lewis who had many wins at top level with this horse Tutein despite her very odd position
I had to find a video of her after seeing that photo, and the commentator actually says "she did everything right" and has a fantastic round...lots of people ride in different styles and some really work for them:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Okay, wow. That position looks downright scary. I guess I think about the safety of it, like if the horse refuses at the last second or something like that. It seems like everyone promotes good two-point position and how it is most effective and how it takes years to perfect. Maybe I've been reading too many George Morris columns lol.
 

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I had to find a video of her after seeing that photo, and the commentator actually says "she did everything right" and has a fantastic round...lots of people ride in different styles and some really work for them:)
/QUOTE]
One of my best friends worked for her and her sister as a groom and they treated their horses like 'pets' - totally adored them
Geoff Billington used to do a wonderful impersonation of Annette in his "Riding Cabaret' performances.
 

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First of all, that rider is not riding in a jumper class, nor is that a very big jump. It is, most likely a HUNTER round. That said, the riders position is of no consequence at all, unless it is interfering with the horse enough to affect his form over fences. The horse looks great, even with the horrible equitation.n

It is sad to me to see this stuff in the hunter ring, though. It makes all of their students, who are likely less talented, think it's OK to ride like this. I hate it. That's one of the many reasons I never rode in the hunter divisions.

As for Annette, she won some high profile classes, but was not one of the most winning riders. She had some truly epic fails in big classes, too.
 

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It might not be a 'perfect seat' but a lot of riders are more interested in getting clear rounds than they are of how they look and if the horse is doing well then it can't be bothering his performance
If you think that looks bad then this is UK showjumper Annette Lewis who had many wins at top level with this horse Tutein despite her very odd position
I wonder what her position was like over fences when she first started, or as an intermediate rider. I can't imagine that this unusual manner developed overnight, nor can I imagine any trainer allowing things to progress like that!! It works for her, but I sure hope nothing ever goes wrong!
 

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Annette was at her peak in the 80's though I think she still does some low key competing and teaches - I found this recent video of her riding in a more conventional style
Yes she did have some pretty spectacular fails too!!!
At the time she claimed that style worked for the particular horse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oqE6QvHFZk
There does seem to be a bit of a trend for riders to get a long way up their horses necks and some almost look to be leaning their weight on them
 

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I can't remember what his name is, it's escaping me. I think it's older guy, I THINK he's british. I can't remember. He's a big show jumper, shows at spruce meadows. HE RIDES HUNCHED OVER. Curved back, it looks TERRIBLE. It absolutely drives me insane. He seriously looks like the hunch back of notre dame. I saw someone else riding like that, they did not do well at all in that round.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Okay, yeah, the jumps aren't that big...I meant big as in high hunters big. I have always wondered where these people got their quirky two-points as well. I once had someone tell me that horses are a mirror of ourselves when it comes to riding, and I have always believed that, especially over fences. I just think these rounds could be so much better, and more importantly, safer, if the equitation was a bit better. All I can think about is if a horse stopped last minute, or over jumped, the rider would be so much more likely to fall in these perilous positions. And I think about how much more weight is added to the forehand if you are up on the neck.
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This was another top rider, Jeff Mcvean riding a little horse, Claret, for, I think NZ.

There is no way that you could say his style was classic but, riding a different horse he was in a good position.
The reason he threw himself off the horse to the point that the only contact was the reins was because Claret was only about 15 hands and Jeff over 6' and non to light. You could say he gave that little horse complete freedom!
 

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I'm not convinced that laying all over the horse's neck impairs their jumping in any way. It does make you more likely to fall off when s*** happens, but all that really matters is that the horse gets a release over the fence.
 

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Jeff McVean might be a bit unorthodox over the fence, but have a look at how he gets the horse to the fence. That's where it matters. It's the rider's job to get the best pace, speed, takeoff spot. The horse's job is to leave the poles in the cups. Doesn't matter what the rider looks like while the horse is airborne, so long as they aren't interfering.

The showjumpers I can't watch are the ones that have that horrible rising canter between fences. Either sit, or go 2 point, CANTER IS NOT A PACE YOU RISE IN!!!! Does my head in. And it is becoming more and more common as the younger riders break into the big leagues.
 

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The showjumpers I can't watch are the ones that have that horrible rising canter between fences. Either sit, or go 2 point, CANTER IS NOT A PACE YOU RISE IN!!!! Does my head in. And it is becoming more and more common as the younger riders break into the big leagues.
Why does it bother you so much? It is thought to balance a greener horse.

I watch Annette ride when I was a teen. At that time, her riding style was more extreme than others, but not all that out there.
 

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I only have a problem with riders being all over their horse neck if they're using it to support their weight - which some seem to do - when a horse is rising upwards it doesn't need someone putting weight on its forehand
 
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