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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I cant decide which stallion to breed my mare to this spring. They both are in a good distance from were I live so we dont have to go to far. Black Jack I have meet before and he is the sweetest stud he is in the pasture with 2 other stallions and there VERY calm, actually when I went in the pasture I didnt know any of them were stallions! They are in a hot poly tape fence and are ery well behaved he also has won many shows and is a good price for my budget (I dont have a whole lot of money). Shahgal I have never met but he seems like a good horse and like a show winner his breeding price is $1500 and thats pushing it a on my budget. I cant decide which would be better for my mare. My mare is Barakat Jsamine on my horses.

Shahgal:
Freeland Farms :: OFW Shahgal

Black Jack:
Juniper Desert Arabians - Stallion - APMJ BLACK JACK
 

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I have nothing to say in terms of breeding your horse, just had to comment that I drive by the home of the second stallion you posted taking my son to and from school every day. *lol* It is a beautiful facility.
 

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I personally like the looks of Black Jack better. BUT, that my uneducated opinion based solely on looks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Before you breed ask yourself this. Is your mare breeding material? Not just because you "love" her but because she will produce outstanding offspring. Be responsible about it :)
I wanna breed her because she has had 3 foals before and they ALL came out absoultly stunning also she supposidly has great bloodlines (sorry about typos, Im just out of it for some reason)
 

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Does Shahgal have any accomplishemnts that merit the higher stud fee? He is only a 2007 colt so he would not yet have foals on the ground showing-- I would also like to see a good side view conformation photo of him.

Blackjack on the other hand is a 1994 stallion-- does he have additional offpsring you can see? 2 foals is not many to review, from a 16 year old stallion. They mention him specifically as a good potential sire for ponies, and he himself is 14.1-- do you want a smaller horse? because he is smaller, and sounds like he probably sires smaller as well.

These two stallions appear to be very different types and bloodlines from one another, from what I can tell. What do you want to do with the foal? Do you have a good conformation shot of the mare, and a link to her pedigree?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does Shahgal have any accomplishemnts that merit the higher stud fee? He is only a 2007 colt so he would not yet have foals on the ground showing-- I would also like to see a good side view conformation photo of him.

Blackjack on the other hand is a 1994 stallion-- does he have additional offpsring you can see? 2 foals is not many to review, from a 16 year old stallion. They mention him specifically as a good potential sire for ponies, and he himself is 14.1-- do you want a smaller horse? because he is smaller, and sounds like he probably sires smaller as well.

These two stallions appear to be very different types and bloodlines from one another, from what I can tell. What do you want to do with the foal? Do you have a good conformation shot of the mare, and a link to her pedigree?
here is Jasmine's pedigree: Arzu Arabians - Mares/Filly's
And I will ask Shahgal's owners if they have that and get back to you. And for arabians the smaller is usually better. For the foal I am wanting to show and possibly breed it when it gets older, I am not picking about what exactly we show in most the time I base it of what the horse individual likes to do I am not picky I love all types of riding. I probably will want to show it in halter to tho but like I said only if the foal is right for that.
 

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I looked up your mare and the stallions on data source, OFW Shahgalhas never been shown, at least not in any recorded Arabian shows or recorded open shows, I suspect his stud fee is so high because his sire is Gazal Al Shaqab who was the region 16 yearling champion out of 19 horses, top 5 arabian breeding stallion in region 9 out of 15 horses and reserve Arabian Sr Stallion Breeding 6 & Over Champ out of 9 horses, he has quite a few more wins but these were the best, his dam also has multiple wins.

APMJ BLACK JACK has been shown in 3 open horse shows taking 2nd in each class out of 4 in one class and 6 horses in the other 2. His sire was never shown, his dam was shown quite a bit but didn't do very well in any of the shows.

As for your mare, she looks to have nice Egyptian lines but I don't recognize any of the horses close up in her pedigree, LANCERS SAHM was a very nice Egyptian arabian who sired 153 registered foals, I have a straight egyptian arabian mare but she's almost 25 now so I really only know about the older egyptian horses, LANCERS SAHM was the only one I recognized without going back 5 or 6 generations. http://www.freelandfarms.com/stallions/Shahgal.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I looked up your mare and the stallions on data source, OFW Shahgalhas never been shown, at least not in any recorded Arabian shows or recorded open shows, I suspect his stud fee is so high because his sire is Gazal Al Shaqab who was the region 16 yearling champion out of 19 horses, top 5 arabian breeding stallion in region 9 out of 15 horses and reserve Arabian Sr Stallion Breeding 6 & Over Champ out of 9 horses, he has quite a few more wins but these were the best, his dam also has multiple wins.

APMJ BLACK JACK has been shown in 3 open horse shows taking 2nd in each class out of 4 in one class and 6 horses in the other 2. His sire was never shown, his dam was shown quite a bit but didn't do very well in any of the shows.

As for your mare, she looks to have nice Egyptian lines but I don't recognize any of the horses close up in her pedigree, LANCERS SAHM was a very nice Egyptian arabian who sired 153 registered foals, I have a straight egyptian arabian mare but she's almost 25 now so I really only know about the older egyptian horses, LANCERS SAHM was the only one I recognized without going back 5 or 6 generations.
which one would you suggest? Black Jack or Shahgal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The lady emailed me back and this is what she said.

Shahgal is in Scottsdale right now. We are going to do pictures and video of him after the show is over. We are expecting 3 more Shahgal foals this year. We have a colt that was just born January 26th.

And she said that he is on the show cicuit this year she also said that they do not do live cover only artificial insemination and I have no idea how to do that so Id have to have them do it which gets VERY costly.

So know im even more in a rut because I really want to breed him but idk.
 

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The lady emailed me back and this is what she said.

Shahgal is in Scottsdale right now. We are going to do pictures and video of him after the show is over. We are expecting 3 more Shahgal foals this year. We have a colt that was just born January 26th.

And she said that he is on the show cicuit this year she also said that they do not do live cover only artificial insemination and I have no idea how to do that so Id have to have them do it which gets VERY costly.

So know im even more in a rut because I really want to breed him but idk.
Yea AI is quite common in nice horses, but is very costly, a friend of mine bred her mare by AI and paid $700 for the stud free, $250 for collection and about $800 to the vet to get the mare in foal, thankfully she took the first try.

I will be breeding one of my mares in a few months to this stallion, CJA High Khaliber, who thankfully does live cover, if I was going to go through all the hassle of doing AI I would pick the best stallion out there and make sure i got my moneys worth.
 

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IMHO you shouldn't really breed right now. I won't go into your mare as I'm no professional when it comes to her breed, but I gather that the quality of the stallions you are considered is compromised for financial reasons? I firmly believe that horses of less-than-ideal quality should not be bred at all considering that there are way too many unwanted horses as it is..you want to breed something that people will REALLY want, so that it won't wind up neglected or in a killpen.
I know it's not what you want to hear but I just couldn't go without saying it. I'm definitely not trying to be rude at all.

Good luck in whatever you decide.
 

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i do agree, of course i dont want to be mean or harsh but like others have said, why do you want to breed your horse? just because you "love" her doesnt mean you want to add another horse that may become part of the "unwanted" population?
I too believe horses should only be bred if they are the ideal horse, because there are so many unwanted, neglected and slaughterbound horses, might as well take in something that needs a home.
are you planning on keeping the offspring forever? or selling it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i do agree, of course i dont want to be mean or harsh but like others have said, why do you want to breed your horse? just because you "love" her doesnt mean you want to add another horse that may become part of the "unwanted" population?
I too believe horses should only be bred if they are the ideal horse, because there are so many unwanted, neglected and slaughterbound horses, might as well take in something that needs a home.
are you planning on keeping the offspring forever? or selling it?
I chose the stallions because I like them cost was the last thing I looked at and when I say low budget I mean low for breeding and I am planning on keeping it so Im not worried about killpen or anything. Also I want to breed her because A. She has a great personalitty and bloodlines and shes getting older so I want to breed her again before its to late. B. I am staring a breeding farm. C. I want a new "project" horse and this foal would be perfect.
 

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good reasons!!

and if you are going to do it, use the best stallion you can find. as for costs of artificial insemination, it varies widely depending on region of the country. it was pretty cheap to have done in TX, but here in Ohio it is outrageously expensive. so if you send her to the stallion, find out their rates for AI and palpation and ultrasound. in addition to board.
 

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Actually not good reasons. Personality is one of the LAST things you breed for. You should be breeding for conformation, trainability, and bloodlines. If all those check out, THEN you bring in personality. I'm not trying to be mean but I am very sick of seeing people breed their horses because they have a great temperament. My mare has an awsome temperament. Doesn't mean she should be bred. My gelding is gorgeous and has the most awesome temperament you can find, he's smart, very peopley and he's a clown. Doesn't mean I shouldn't have gelded him. Pretty and good temperament does not equal breeding quality, to me. And you say you will keep it forever, but there is absolutely no 100% guarantee that you will be able to. Things happen, people change, jobs disappear, etc. And if you are planning on starting a breeding farm, choose the best of the best, that way when and if you do sell they have a greater chance of getting a better home.

Sorry if I sound mean, but I personally feel that anything breeding should be of very high quality, given the current market.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Actually not good reasons. Personality is one of the LAST things you breed for. You should be breeding for conformation, trainability, and bloodlines. If all those check out, THEN you bring in personality. I'm not trying to be mean but I am very sick of seeing people breed their horses because they have a great temperament. My mare has an awsome temperament. Doesn't mean she should be bred. My gelding is gorgeous and has the most awesome temperament you can find, he's smart, very peopley and he's a clown. Doesn't mean I shouldn't have gelded him. Pretty and good temperament does not equal breeding quality, to me. And you say you will keep it forever, but there is absolutely no 100% guarantee that you will be able to. Things happen, people change, jobs disappear, etc. And if you are planning on starting a breeding farm, choose the best of the best, that way when and if you do sell they have a greater chance of getting a better home.

Sorry if I sound mean, but I personally feel that anything breeding should be of very high quality, given the current market.
Yes I agree but she was EXTREMLY eazy to train (I did it myself) and she has good/great bloodlines and I think good conformation we have done well in halter classes but Im not an expert on conformation. And my breeding program is based on quality and additute because to many people look at arabians as high strong bad horses and I want to prove to those people that there not at all. And the economy will get better and we need to take advantage of the economy if we can. Its the time to buy not sell.
 
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