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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm getting a new horse this weekend (already bought 'im) and while I usually ride 95% of the time in a plain dee-ring snafle I'm thinking of riding him in somthing else. He is pretty well trained as a WP/HUS horse and goes in either a plain snaffle or somthing with leverage. I am mostly going to be trail riding but still expect him to be collected, keep soft, and be responsive to me... later on down the road I might show him in WP for fun (keeping the more natural 3-beat but slow lope).
Other than that I ride with some older woman who just walk down the trail. For those rides I usually just sit back and let my horse relax and follow the others... :oops:

When I rode this horse to try him out I rode him in a halter then in a broken mouth piece leverage bit (more leverage than a tom thumb but not scarey long shanks! :lol:).

I have and was thinking of using this bit;
Milepost Cutter Horse Bit with Engraved German Sleeve Stain - 4007533 | Tractor Supply Company

But I also have this snaffle (the normal smooth mouth snaffle)
Ring Mouth Snaffle :: Downunder Horsemanship

I'm a bit confused as to whether I would be better off just using the plain dee ring saffle or if the leverage cutter bit would do me more good?

Usually when I rode in normal snaffles before I kept contact in order to maintain collection and the frame of choice but when using a broken mouth piece leverage bit I just picked up on the bit when I asked for somthing.... :? if that even makes sense.

...I might be a bit more confused than I thought actually?
 

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It is not something I would buy or own. It serves little purpose out side of pinching the horses mouth between the bit and the curb. It will give no tong relief and little control over what you may need.

Check with the person you got the horse from and see what they have been using.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is the bit she was using... He went in it, but I just don't like it... I think the shanks are to short, it reminds me of a tom thumb which I was always told was not a good bit :oops:

She was using somthing like this:

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
which bit would you use? Like I said the horse is broke and know what to do...

I must admit I'm not a fan of a solid mouth piece... they just scare me :-(

would this be better? I guess I'm looking for a mild leverage bit...?

 

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Welcome to the forum!

To be honest, a bit has little to do with what you like and more of what your horse goes well in. The phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is always good advise with horses. Unless there is a reason to change his bit, I simply wouldn't.

As for a shanked bit with a solid mouth piece, it is more mild then the broken mouth piece that you are showing. The bit I prefer has a Billy Allen mouth piece and can be had on any bit from a snaffle to a short or long shanked leverage bit.

A true Tom Thumb bit is a straight, short shanked, rather unbalanced bit with a broken mouth piece. Many people refer to any shanked bit as being a TT but that isn't the case.

The bit you showed that the current owner is using is nothing like a TT but it is a very mild leverage bit with a slight gag action and a seems to have a 1:1 ratio to it. A nice mild bit if your horses goes well in it. It also has the option to be used as a regular snaffle by putting your reins on the rings at the mouth piece.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ugh, I still feel like I can't find a bit that I am comfortable with...
I wish I knew more about this stuff...

I just didn't like riding in the bit she used on him. Yes, he went well in it but I still had to take up rein as if i was riding in a plain dee ring snaffle bit in order for him to collect.

I was looking for somthing that I can let him have his head and relax on a long loose rein but when I pick up on the rein I'd like him to be there, not that I have to pick up a ton of rein.... I felt like in that bit I had to ride on a smaller/tighter rein like a normal snaffle.

I'm not looking for more 'bite' I'm looking to get result while riding on a loose relaxed rein.

I guess I'll just use the dee-ring snaffle :?

Is this just a training issue?
 

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ugh, I still feel like I can't find a bit that I am comfortable with...
I wish I knew more about this stuff...

I just didn't like riding in the bit she used on him. Yes, he went well in it but I still had to take up rein as if i was riding in a plain dee ring snaffle bit in order for him to collect.

I was looking for somthing that I can let him have his head and relax on a long loose rein but when I pick up on the rein I'd like him to be there, not that I have to pick up a ton of rein.... I felt like in that bit I had to ride on a smaller/tighter rein like a normal snaffle.

I'm not looking for more 'bite' I'm looking to get result while riding on a loose relaxed rein.

I guess I'll just use the dee-ring snaffle :?

Is this just a training issue?
I'm going to jump in here... YES. Most of the time people have "bit issues" it's not really a bit issue at all, but another tack problem or a training issue.
The bit does not have anything to do with collection whatsoever - collection comes from the horse's haunches and back :)
I like to say that you ride the horse's body, and the head is just the hood ornament... most correct riding stems from training the horse's body - the head will fall into place (literally) with correct training.


... I will step off my soapbox now ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
JDI, I understand what your saying...

My problem is that yes, when I take up rein the horse is light in my hands and collects...
He listens to your leg great and if I didn't care abot collection I could ride him anywhere and everywhere bridless and still do lead changes...

However, I do need a bit becase if you squeeze forward and you don't stop that energy from going forward you can't get collection... right? The horse will just go forward...

But; I want to ride him on a loose rein, gearing towards western pleasure in hopes one day I will show him... I don't want to have to take up a ton of rein and keep contact on his mouth to get him to collect and do what I'm asking like an english/hus horse.

I'm not even sure I make sense... :lol:
 

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You make perfect sense :) There is a place for a bit, but it isn't as most see it. Collection comes from your seat and leg aids, not primarily the hand. The bit certainly has its place, but not in teaching collection - not in the sense I think you're getting at, I don't think.
Just for clarification sake.. some people think that head in a frame = collection.. is this what you're referring to, or true collection, where the horse's body and strides shorten up, but tempo doesn't change?
I have found that for some, the term "collection" can mean either of the two things, so I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm not worried abot his head.

I'm thinking more along the lines that becuase he is soft, and listens so well to my leg, if I use a leverage bit of some sorts I will only need to pick up on my rein a half inch (or less) opposed to a few inches in order to get him to give to the bit and do what I ask...

I not thinking that I can't get him to give in a snaffle so I need a bigger bit.

I was always told that a regular dee/o/egg butt snaffle is made for more consistant contact. I don't want to ride with the contact like a Hunter horse does. I don't need collection to the max like a dressage horse does.

I'm thinking more so western pleasure/reining/cow horse I think?

Thanks for your help, I'm really trying to 'get it' lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
and when I say 'pick up on the reins/bit' I mean I want to pick up the shoulder and have that shoulder move where and when I want it to.... so I should rephrase that to picking up on the shoulder not the bit.
 

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Haha no worries - it's a tough concept to grasp, and I'm sure that I don't even understand it in and out.
I have to run for a while here, I'm terribly sorry - I will reply when I get back and can get my thoughts in order :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
well... it seems like it doesn't matter anymore. Apparently while I was waiting to hear back from this woman on when she could ship 'Chopper' for me someone showed up with cash and she sold him...

Bummer, at least I can horse shop some more :-(.
 

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Ack, I knew I was supposed to come back to this thread.

I'm so sorry to hear about the purchase falling through... what a bummer. Would you still like me to explain things?
 
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