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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, I am riding this horse who every time I try to get her to a faster pace AWAY from what she wants, like the scraps of hay left in the pasture of the other horse, she will stop, put her head down and whip her tail all around. I get a feeling that this is her telling me to stop or she is going to buck? Every time she does this, I pull her head back up because I have been told they can not buck with their head down. How do I get her to go faster than a walk away from what she wants? Going towards what she wants she will gladly go faster, haha, but as soon as we leave, she won't go faster than a walk without the stance I just described. I still haven't gotten her to trot away from what she wants.
 

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Why is it that you refuse to take the advice being given in all of your other threads to seek the help of a professional?

I'm going to repeat what I said in your other thread:


You need to go back and re-read all the advice already given in your other threads!

And then take it to heart - especially the part about seeking professional help at this point given you are new to horses.

This will not get better without such. To the contrary, it can, and very likely WILL only get worse, and the chances of you or someone else in your family ending up seriously injured are very high.
 

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I don't mean to be coming down on anyone about this, but I see some of this attitude from people who have a lot of experience on the forum sometimes and I wonder what's going on, since we're all here to learn and help each other.

I think this person IS trying to seek the help of a professional, or someone more experienced than her, by coming onto the forums and asking her questions. I feel bad for her that she's essentially being told to stop asking questions here and go somewhere else.

Not everyone has access to or the money for a professional. Not everyone has support from their family for their horse habit. Does this mean they shouldn't be allowed to have or enjoy horses? I don't think so. I believe many of the experienced people on this forum taught themselves much or all that they know of horses and/or listened the the advice of others without necessarily paying a professional to do the work for them. For many, horses are a learn-as-you-go hobby, either by choice or circumstances.

Safety is of course a huge issue. Young people think they're immortal and they lack the healthy respect they should have for such a large and potentially dangerous animal. That's where people on this forum can help. TEACH HER. HELP HER. I think we do more harm than good when we make her feel bad about what she's trying to do and make her want to go away where she'll get no help.

That's my advice, although not for the OP. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i don't mean to be coming down on anyone about this, but i see some of this attitude from people who have a lot of experience on the forum sometimes and i wonder what's going on, since we're all here to learn and help each other.

I think this person is trying to seek the help of a professional, or someone more experienced than her, by coming onto the forums and asking her questions. I feel bad for her that she's essentially being told to stop asking questions here and go somewhere else.

Not everyone has access to or the money for a professional. Not everyone has support from their family for their horse habit. Does this mean they shouldn't be allowed to have or enjoy horses? I don't think so. I believe many of the experienced people on this forum taught themselves much or all that they know of horses and/or listened the the advice of others without necessarily paying a professional to do the work for them. For many, horses are a learn-as-you-go hobby, either by choice or circumstances.

Safety is of course a huge issue. Young people think they're immortal and they lack the healthy respect they should have for such a large and potentially dangerous animal. That's where people on this forum can help. Teach her. Help her. I think we do more harm than good when we make her feel bad about what she's trying to do and make her want to go away where she'll get no help.

That's my advice, although not for the op. :)
thank you!!!! :p
 

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The reason members may take attitude?

Is because too many times the same poster has problems that could be easily addressed IF they would take the good advice given.

Instead, they are determined to just keep muddling about, mucking things up, making their horse miserable OR dangerous.

And if the time is taken to read the OP's other threads? You can see a pattern here of someone who has not got a clue about what they are doing with horses. Every single problem she posts about is very simplistic and easily fixed IF you know what you are doing with horses, or IF you will listen to more experienced members.
 

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How can one teach when they do not see the rider and horse and how they interact with each other? It is like trying to explain to someone, over the internet, how to drive, or sky dive, or something.

I believe this poster has two horses with issues. First horse was having issues and then a second one was bought? I think that is how I remember it. I'm old and might have it wrong.

My opinion is one should have an emergency vet fund and an emergency trainer fund.....especially if new to horses and riding. Maybe the second horse should not have been bought before first horse had some training. If she could afford, or her parents, a second horse, why not consult a trainer?

Anyway, I may have all the back story mixed up with another poster. I am posting on the fly, or I would have checked all the OP's posts to make sure I has it correct. I apologize in advance if I have the back story completely, and utterly fubared.
 

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Perhaps I'm being blunt, but if you go back and read the OP's other threads in which the depth of her issues become clear I think the everyone will agree that seeking the assistance of a professional is sound advice.

OP, sorry if you're taking it the wrong way, but YOU NEED GUIDANCE from someone who knows horses, if at least on a basic level!

This is a new horse owner who has no idea what they're doing, no mentors whatsoever to help them understand things like basic behaviors, body language, or how to even ground handle their horse effectively and she is going to get herself hurt, not to mention end up with a sour (or worse, injured as well) horse. Actually RIDING should be the last priority right now.

This isn't a scenario I can condone nor will I sweet talk someone through what could be a disaster start to finish. I think doing that to anyone here in any sort of similar situation is doing people more of a DISSERVICE than being forward with them and telling them they need help (politely at first, but more blunt if need be as is the case here), but they need to be willing to accept that this is sound advice and take it, not just ignore it and continue to fumble towards disaster. Which is exactly what's happening here.

The current path will just lead to "My horse kicks at me all the time and I can't get near her anymore" or "My horse bucks me off all the time and bites me" threads (or worse) in another month or three.

Horses are not cute fluffy pets with which you can just buy and fumble through the ownership experience with until you "figure it out". A horse can kill a person. To suggest that someone with what sounds like little to no horse experience can go buy a horse (much less several, a foal included as with our situation here) and then just start riding is redicous.

No amount of advice given here short of "seek someone to help you in person" as many of us have suggested in other threads is going to help. You can't learn everything from a forum, or a book, or YouTube.

If I'm being overly blunt about that, I apologize , but it is what it is. Sometimes the truth hurts. And the "perhaps she can't afford it" argument doesn't hold water for me either - if you can afford multiple horses and the care and upkeep of such, you can afford to pay someone to help you. Heck, ASK at least - chances are another local horseperson might very well help you out with the basics for free!
 

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I'm not saying that telling the OP to go hire a pro is not good advice. It's excellent advice. I think everyone who *can* should use professionals. I do. But that's because I can afford it. I'm not a kid living out a dream with parents off to the side who aren't willing or able to help, like I believe the OP might be.

Professionals are expensive. It's not a one-time thing. You pay and pay and pay. Lots of kids have their parents to do this, but some don't. I think this person is one who doesn't have all that support or money to pay, so she's here trying to learn, trying to do better. She could just go out there and hack around and ruin the horse anonymously. She's not. She's trying to fix what's wrong by asking questions. Even after being scolded many times, she comes back.

I have read some of her other posts. My impression is that she's young (maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so), she's enthusiastic, she really wants to ride horses and enjoy doing it, she needs help, and she doesn't have the $$ to pay a professional. And like most kids, she doesn't listen too carefully.

I have 3 kids, and as much as they love and respect me, 75% of what I say goes in one ear and out the other with zero processing. My son is 19, so I'm not talking young kids either. No offense to you, Ebonyisforme! I was the same about 30 years ago. :) WE ALL WERE.

I don't think the fact that a horsewoman is young, inexperienced, and unable to pay for help means people should stop trying to help her. Eventually, the stuff sinks in. Maybe she just needs to hear it a bunch of times first.

And I just want you all to know that every time you help her, you help me too. I read all of your posts and soak it up like a sponge. One day I'm going to have the same trouble as she's having, and I'll already be armed with expert advice to deal with it. So if you don't want to help her because you think she's a lost cause, answer her questions anyway because lots of us other beginners will end up having those same questions for ourselves, and we will listen to you.

Many hugs to my fellow horse lovers out there who are so generous with their time and expertise!! xoxo
 

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How can one teach when they do not see the rider and horse and how they interact with each other? It is like trying to explain to someone, over the internet, how to drive, or sky dive, or something.

I believe this poster has two horses with issues. First horse was having issues and then a second one was bought? I think that is how I remember it. I'm old and might have it wrong.

My opinion is one should have an emergency vet fund and an emergency trainer fund.....especially if new to horses and riding. Maybe the second horse should not have been bought before first horse had some training. If she could afford, or her parents, a second horse, why not consult a trainer?

Anyway, I may have all the back story mixed up with another poster. I am posting on the fly, or I would have checked all the OP's posts to make sure I has it correct. I apologize in advance if I have the back story completely, and utterly fubared.
I read threads all day on here with people teaching others what they need to know, without knowing the rider or the horse. That's what the forum is for!

Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one, and they're all different. My opinion is that if your passion is horses, you can have a horse, as long as you can feed it, care for it, and keep it healthy and happy. I'll bet you at least 25% of the people on this forum do not have emergency funds set aside for their animals. That's a luxury for a lot of people. They wait for a big problem to come up and then they scrape around trying to find money to pay for it. That's just life.

No one is able to do 100%, 100% of the time. Sometimes our horses get sick. Sometimes they're not happy. We do what we can to improve them and ourselves. If everyone had to wait for the perfect situation to own a horse, half of the people on these boards wouldn't be on here because they wouldn't have grown up with horses.

The OP is passionate about riding and she wants to learn. She's not going to stop riding horses just because people her are being rude to her. Shouldn't we keep trying to help? We're not just helping her, we are helping her horse, and I know for sure the horse deserves that.

I believe strongly that with the right guidance here and some support, she can improve, and any improvement is better than none.
 

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Hey, I am riding this horse who every time I try to get her to a faster pace AWAY from what she wants, like the scraps of hay left in the pasture of the other horse, she will stop, put her head down and whip her tail all around. I get a feeling that this is her telling me to stop or she is going to buck? Every time she does this, I pull her head back up because I have been told they can not buck with their head down. How do I get her to go faster than a walk away from what she wants? Going towards what she wants she will gladly go faster, haha, but as soon as we leave, she won't go faster than a walk without the stance I just described. I still haven't gotten her to trot away from what she wants.
I am a beginner like you, so you should listen to the more experienced horseowners on this forum before me. But I will say that your horse's behavior is a sign of disrespect towards you. He believes he is the boss, not you. That means he will continue to act out and will likely become worse as he continues to get signals from you that you are not his boss. This could get VERY dangerous. You will get hurt. It's not a matter of if, but when.

In order to fix most of the problems you've written about, you need to assert yourself as the leader over him.

One of the best ways I've learned to deal with this issue is to follow the principles set down by natural horsemen like Clinton Anderson, Sean Patrick, Parelli and many others. You can find FREE videos on youtube showing lots of techniques.

My first advice would be to watch some videos and read some articles about herd behavior and herd hierarchy. You need to be the herd leader. Normally that's a mare. Watch how the lead mare controls the other horses. She moves their feet. She decides where they hang out and when they move with body language and attitude. She eats first. She gets the choice food. She does this by moving the other horses away. She who controls the feet, controls the mind.

That's who you need to be. The lead mare. There are many ways humans can mimic the behavior of the lead mare. You just need to learn! And since you don't have a teacher there, you need to find teachers online. Start with Youtube and google searches on natural horsemanship and herd dynamics.

Good luck!
 

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OP - Type Buddy Sour Horse into the Google search line and start reading.
Barn sour/buddy sour...same deal.
I wish you had someone to teach you. It would help you to understand so much quicker.
 

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Unfortunately, ecasey, if you read the OP's other threads, that's exactly the advice we've already given her. But she chooses to not listen and continue to ride before she has even a grasp on the rest of the equation. The basics. The "before you EVER get in the saddle" stuff.

I don't purport to be a "pro" at all things horses by any stretch of the imagination, either – to the contrary much like many others here I am still learning with regards to many things. But I knew knew when to ask for help. And to this day, I still do ask for help or guidance when I'm unsure of something related to horses - I don't just ignore the fact that there's something I'm unsure of and hope for the best while repeatedly putting myself in harms way.

When I got my pilots license I didn't just jump behind the controls of a plane and take off into the wild blue yonder. Despite the fact that for decades before I had dreamt of flying, read every possible book about flying, played with flight simulators for perhaps thousands of hours, and had even been at the controls as a passenger myself previously – in the end I still sought the help of a professional.

Could I have successfully jumped into the cockpit of a small plane with the knowledge I *thought* I had, or what knowledge I had learned by reading and such, took off, flew around, and landed successfully? Honestly, probably yes! But would I have eventually screwed something up because I didn't know better (and failed to seek help/training), and subsequently crashed and killed myself? Almost assuredly!
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Anyhow, I've said enough in this thread so I'm going to bow out before I get myself In trouble. ;)

OP, please reconsider all of the advice you've been getting here and take the turn towards a positive horse ownership experience.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

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Behavioral problems are the hardest to diagnose on ANY forum. There is so much we are not privy to since the members here are not in the pasture with the OP and her horse. To type out how to teach a horse to back or leg yield is one thing. To try and figure out if the horse is really trying to buck by the OPs written description is another let alone trying to fix the issue online.

My 'luxurious' emergency fund is the extra $10.00 dollars a month I give in board. Adds up over time. I can handle an emergency under a certain amount of money....but every month that amount goes up by 10 bucks. It is not a luxury or easy for me either. But l try to plan. I have had some emergency barn calls, never once had to 'pay out of pocket'. The fund gets very depleted and I just start adding that little old 10 bucks a month. So emergency funds can happen if one is willing to make it work.

People buy horses all the time and do not realize the expense that comes along with it, nor the time, sweat, patience, frustration, hard work that goes hand in hand with responsible horse ownership. They just want to gallop over the hills with flicka.

She is lucky to have horses in her young life. My parents didn't understand my 'passion' for horses either. So I didn't have one growing up. But I read, rode, asked questions even without the benefit of owning a horse. And I listened. Soaked it up the answers and opinions like a sponge.

I think what gets me upset the most is when people come here, receive some really great advice and opinions, but do not like what they are reading and get snippy.
 

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I think what gets me upset the most is when people come here, receive some really great advice and opinions, but do not like what they are reading and get snippy.
I agree with you. It's frustrating. But it's also understandable.

People jump to conclusions or misunderstand some requests for help, and then say sometimes very insulting things instead of being kind. It is possible to help someone without being rude; I've seen people doing it on this forum over and over. There are some fabulous people here. But there are some who seem to anger quickly and don't stop for a minute and re-read before clicking the 'submit reply' button. They're full of righteous indignation, fueled perhaps by their desire to see all horses only living with expert horsemen and horsewomen.

And sometimes people who post questions just don't like to hear that they're doing something wrong that is hurting a creature they love. Or they can get frustrated when people misunderstand and don't understand why people would be negative when their only intent is to be better, to do better.

This is the nature of an online forum. No getting around it as far as I know. :)
 

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I have to agree that as a new poster on this list- many come off as borderline rude and extremely condescending in their posts. Maybe some people NEED to get hurt before they seek professional advice but sometimes the availability of professional advice isn't working. Part of being a GOOD trainer is being patient with faults. Being condescending and insulting only makes people go on the offensive. People aren't horses that can be pushed around and take it. I am not saying this to anyone posting here in particular but something I have seen in the few posts I have made on this forum in general. What if school teachers make our kids feel like stupid idiots in an effort to "teach" them? That wouldn't go over very well.
 

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I have to agree that as a new poster on this list- many come off as borderline rude and extremely condescending in their posts. Maybe some people NEED to get hurt before they seek professional advice but sometimes the availability of professional advice isn't working. Part of being a GOOD trainer is being patient with faults. Being condescending and insulting only makes people go on the offensive. People aren't horses that can be pushed around and take it. I am not saying this to anyone posting here in particular but something I have seen in the few posts I have made on this forum in general. What if school teachers make our kids feel like stupid idiots in an effort to "teach" them? That wouldn't go over very well.
Very well put :) I was on another board and finally left. I may have come across as "stupid" to most. But didn't we all start out at the bottom sometime in our life?? I don't think anyone is an expert from the time they start something in life. Whether it's horses or anything else. People were so rude to me it was borderline abuse. I think because they can just hide behind their computer. If they were really that rude to people to their face, I think they'd get punched.
I've had horses off and on for 30 years and ended up selling 4 in my time. Either because they were too much horse for me or I just didn't mesh with them.
In my case and I think in most cases, people seek out and buy "trained or trail safe horses." And most of the time, that doesn't happen. People lie to sell horses. And if you don't know what to look for at a glance and on a couple of rides, you will probably miss the true picture. Then you end up with problems.
So most people don't even think about putting away money for a trainer. That never crossed my mind unless I'm getting a youngster.
I have a fairly new horse (just over a year). Thought he was "trained" and I found out otherwise. I tried to deal with him myself until on one ride, he tried to unload me to have his way. I realized I needed help. I found a good trainer that I could afford. We found out he needed to go back to ground zero - round pen. He had no respect for me. It's only been just over a week and I have a completely different horse. His attitude is, "yes boss!"
I do realize we have a ways to go yet. I cannot let my guard down with him. Always keep a step ahead of him and not allow him to get away with anything. Before going on a ride, we do ground work. And I'm prepared to do ground work on the trail if he needs it.
It will take longer to learn ground work and longer with a trainer if you have never done it or are new to horses. But it's worth its weight in gold!!!
Take it from me, these horses can be so dangerous if allowed to run the show.
If you are not a complete newbie, you might get away with getting some videos to watch and train on your own. I did do this with my first horse and I did it. It took longer, I made mistakes along the way.
At the time I was at a barn that had a few trainers and they gave me some pointers when they saw I was struggling with something.
Unless you're a rodeo cowboy..... don't get on a horse and take it on the trail until you are obviously the boss and you can move all his feet where you want them. Get him/her to move hindquarters, shoulders, back up, attention on you. Light movement in a circle.
 

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I think it's important for those experienced riders to remember that newbies can't always take in all the advice that is handed out to them, and to keep in mind from where we all started, and be as empathetic with the newbie as they would with any green horse. Yeah, they need to take it a bit easy on new folks, however almost every newbie who has come here, shared about even the silliest problem they are having, AND expressed a willingness to hear the feedback they get, has been treated fairly decently.

it's just so darned frustrating when people come with a basket full of issues, assume that there is a seperate cure for each one, and they are as tidy to do as applying a bandaid or popping a pill, but never really understand that all of those issues stem from the same place; leadership or lack of. that is not what they were expecting to get.
What they hear is basically , this
" the problem is you", and they cannot accept that.
but we all know that it's always the rider's fault. yes, the horse might behave badly, but that's only becuase he is either afraid, or confused or without any boundaries. Olympians do not blame their horse. they always seek to improve THEMSELVES.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay, just let me clear up a couple things. First, yes, I am young. This new horse is only the second horse I have ever had and the first was the worlds best horse, so I didn't really have all that much trouble with her, she taught me how to ride, saddle, and do pretty much everything I know about horses. Second, we did not BUY another horse, we traded our horses 8 month old for a 3 year old who supposedly was very, very well trained and super good kids horse. Yes, she is well trained for a 3 YEAR OLD, but never in a million years would I put one of my younger siblings on her as she has some of the problems I have asked about. I can make her move her hindquarters, go backwards, forwards on the ground with the occasional tug of war, which I always win. On the saddle, even if it takes me my entire riding time, I do not let her go where she is wanting to go, I just wanted to know if that was her threatening to buck and how to fix her other riding problems. I have said this a couple of times but still people come and say to get professional help, we DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO HIRE A TRAINER. The closest I can come to that is taking her riding with my friend who trains horses which I am already going to do this next Saturday. She has gotten a LOT better than the first day I rode her but still has issues. Yes, I am a beginner, we do not have tons upon tons of money, but I have fixed or partially fixed some of her problems and she isn't doing worse, so I must be doing something right. I DO listen to your feedback and when they aren't saying to get a trainer, most of the time I try their methods. But when you post and just flip out at me for not getting a trainer, I can't listen to you and act on your feedback because there is no way, whatsoever, that I can get a trainer.
 
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