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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was given a beautiful, sweet mare because she needed help with her hooves. She has been off and on lame since her owner had her. She was kept on LUSH green pasture. Her toes were always 2 months TOO long, heels WAY too low...

I got X-rays done when she was moved here. Her left front shows signs of major bone damage to her coffin bone. Her R front has damage as well, but not so severe.

I've attached the X-rays for you guys. What do you think the likelihood of her ever being comfortable are?

I rehabbed my heart horse for 2 years before I had to put him down when he just couldn't get up. The damage was done (I rescued him as well).

I'm starting to think I need to prepare myself for the worst, and I am just devastated because she is simply a wonderful mare inside and out.

Any success story post chronic laminitis encouraged to get me through

PS - she is having regular trim schedules and wearing padded boots for comfort 90% of her day, as my ground here is harder with more rocks.
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Left picture is her RIGHT, right picture is her LEFT
 

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1. Yes there’s hope BUT, you need a Bonafide therapeutic farrier — therapeutic - just being AFA certified doesn’t mean a hill of beans in this instance.

2. Are you prepared to put in not only the time but the money to do this right? With the rotation of the one coffin bone, there is no room for anything being done “half-awrsed”. I know, I’m living with a horse whose LF looked like that when he foundered from IR in 2012.

3. I have to be in town in 45 minutes. In the interim, go to NewHorse,com

Click on the farrier button.

Click on The blue button that says “farrier’s by region”.

Look to see if there is a therapeutic farrier in your region - yes region - many of them travel but the distance they are willing to travel varies.

My therapeutic farrier is only 30 miles from me and her travel distance is barely up to two hours.

Ill explain more later, from my perspective but, there are some farrier’s on here that can provide you with input.

So no, don’t give up as long as the money Is there and you are willing and able physically & mentally to deal with the issue long term - pretty long term as you don’t know what the residual affects will be:):)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
1. Yes there’s hope BUT, you need a Bonafide therapeutic farrier — therapeutic - just being AFA certified doesn’t mean a hill of beans in this instance.

2. Are you prepared to put in not only the time but the money to do this right? With the rotation of the one coffin bone, there is no room for anything being done “half-awrsed”. I know, I’m living with a horse whose LF looked like that when he foundered from IR in 2012.

3. I have to be in town in 45 minutes. In the interim, go to NewHorse,com

Click on the farrier button.

Click on The blue button that says “farrier’s by region”.

Look to see if there is a therapeutic farrier in your region - yes region - many of them travel but the distance they are willing to travel varies.

My therapeutic farrier is only 30 miles from me and her travel distance is barely up to two hours.

Ill explain more later, from my perspective but, there are some farrier’s on here that can provide you with input.

So no, don’t give up as long as the money Is there and you are willing and able physically & mentally to deal with the issue long term - pretty long term as you don’t know what the residual affects will be:):)
How does your horse now? I am currently working with a barefoot practitioner who studied and trained with Pete Ramey. Highly knowledgable, but not sure if we are the best mix. I will check out that page, thank you! Is your horse doing better now?
 

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Hopefully @loosie can take a look at the XRays and tell you what she thinks.
 

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How does your horse now? I am currently working with a barefoot practitioner who studied and trained with Pete Ramey. Highly knowledgable, but also highly pessimistic and judgey. Not sure if we are the best mix. I will check out that page, thank you! Is your horse doing better now?
He eventually de-rotated but x-rays this spring spring revealed arthritis (low Ringbone) on the P3 (coffin bone) and also in the coronary band of the RF.

This horse also lives with a twice fractured sacrum and was diagnosed with Cushings in 2019:(. I spend a lot of money on him:)

Sorry to all the barefoot gurus but your barefoot trimmer needs to go. At least for now, this is not a time to declare barefoot is the only way.

My horse is in EasyCare‘s composite shoes. Their “Versa” line has several models. My horse has narrow hooves, so wears hind shoes with the toe clips cut off, as he has good solid and thick hoofwall and can hold his shoes on.

He has a full flexible plastic pad attached to the shoe. His pads are a 3/8” rise at the heels. there are different elevations available, which is why a therapeutic farrier needs to doing the job and also needs to be a farrier that will confer with the vet.:)

There are various types of flexible packing that can go between the pad and the horse’s sole. It not only eases concussion, it encourages frog growth.

ATM, my farrier uses the medium-hard ShuFil which reminds me of silly putty. She rolls copper sulfate crystals into the ShuFil before applying it to the hoof.

She also uses all copper nails in the shoes, as copper helps deter anaerobic issues, which seem to love these laminitic hooves.

Composite shoes can also be glued on but it is a real bear getting them back off.

It is a LOT of work, anguish, frustration, tears, on top of the expense. In spite of what some folks claim, MY horse developed ulcers from the extended use of pain meds. He started on Bute but the lameness vet took him off that and put him on Previcox, which is IS easier on their stomach but certainly no magic bullet to prevent ulcers.

That meant Joker was put on Omeprazole for awhile but that stuff isn’t that great long term either. I ended up putting him on Egusin which is an all natural product for that treats both the fore and hind gut issues.

He was on that for a summer and it helped immensely. Recently I put him on Succeed because it gives me nine more days of treatment for $10 less money. Joker will stay on that at least thru the summer.

Where I live, I only have have to de-worm twice yearly. My other horse is 27 so they both go on Succeed one week before de-worming, and stay on Succeed until Their 30 day containers are empty.

There is also diet, which is critical for these horses.

You have a lot to think about — When Joker first foundered I told the lameness vet I would give him six months to show improvement both in pain level and coffin bone rotation. If there wasn’t any, I would PTS because I believe in QUALITY of life not quantity, and there was no way he was going down the road to ultimate meet a Fate no horse should ever have to.

I am trying to lay all the cards on the table without glorifying the issues. It can be done but —- it won’t be easy:):)

****
Joker’s severe rotation was in 2012. He will be 26 in early August. He is a Tennessee Walker.

Here‘s a foto of him, a few weeks back, in his favorite summer spot, in front of the fan; plus his annual shed out foto for 2021. Also a couple pics of his shoeing package,

Were it not for his twice fractured sacrum, I could easy hack him for an hour or so out and back here and there (he was a point and go anywhere trail horse). As it is, I can ride him down the rail 15 minutes here and there but, being a die hard trail rider, it’s not worth it, except on New Years Day:)

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
He eventually de-rotated but x-rays this spring spring revealed arthritis (low Ringbone) on the P3 (coffin bone) and also in the coronary band of the RF.

This horse also lives with a twice fractured sacrum and was diagnosed with Cushings in 2019:(. I spend a lot of money on him:)

Sorry to all the barefoot gurus but your barefoot trimmer needs to go. At least for now, this is not a time to declare barefoot is the only way.

My horse is in EasyCare‘s composite shoes. Their “Versa” line has several models. My horse has narrow hooves, so wears hind shoes with the toe clips cut off, as he has good solid and thick hoofwall and can hold his shoes on.

He has a full flexible plastic pad attached to the shoe. His pads are a 3/8” rise at the heels. there are different elevations available, which is why a therapeutic farrier needs to doing the job and also needs to be a farrier that will confer with the vet.:)

There are various types of flexible packing that can go between the pad and the horse’s sole. It not only eases concussion, it encourages frog growth.

ATM, my farrier uses the medium-hard ShuFil which reminds me of silly putty. She rolls copper sulfate crystals into the ShuFil before applying it to the hoof.

She also uses all copper nails in the shoes, as copper helps deter anaerobic issues, which seem to love these laminitic hooves.

Composite shoes can also be glued on but it is a real bear getting them back off.

It is a LOT of work, anguish, frustration, tears, on top of the expense. In spite of what some folks claim, MY horse developed ulcers from the extended use of pain meds. He started on Bute but the lameness vet took him off that and put him on Previcox, which is IS easier on their stomach but certainly no magic bullet to prevent ulcers.

That meant Joker was put on Omeprazole for awhile but that stuff isn’t that great long term either. I ended up putting him on Egusin which is an all natural product for that treats both the fore and hind gut issues.

He was on that for a summer and it helped immensely. Recently I put him on Succeed because it gives me nine more days of treatment for $10 less money. Joker will stay on that at least thru the summer.

Where I live, I only have have to de-worm twice yearly. My other horse is 27 so they both go on Succeed one week before de-worming, and stay on Succeed until Their 30 day containers are empty.

There is also diet, which is critical for these horses.

You have a lot to think about — When Joker first foundered I told the lameness vet I would give him six months to show improvement both in pain level and coffin bone rotation. If there wasn’t any, I would PTS because I believe in QUALITY of life not quantity, and there was no way he was going down the road to ultimate meet a Fate no horse should ever have to.

I am trying to lay all the cards on the table without glorifying the issues. It can be done but —- it won’t be easy:):)

****
Joker’s severe rotation was in 2012. He will be 26 in early August. He is a Tennessee Walker.

Here‘s a foto of him, a few weeks back, in his favorite summer spot, in front of the fan; plus his annual shed out foto for 2021. Also a couple pics of his shoeing package,

Were it not for his twice fractured sacrum, I could easy hack him for an hour or so out and back here and there (he was a point and go anywhere trail horse). As it is, I can ride him down the rail 15 minutes here and there but, being a die hard trail rider, it’s not worth it, except on New Years Day:)

View attachment 1115792 View attachment 1115793

View attachment 1115794 View attachment 1115795

He is a cutie pie! I will ask my vet for a farrier she recommends. When she came out, she suggested heart bar shoes and because I'm also a barefoot trimmer I was initially opposed, but I am willing to do what it takes to make her comfortable to hopefully curve this rotation and bring the bone back where it belongs. Fortunately, her hind feet are great and she is comfortable behind, so would only have to shoe the two fronts.

I am so happy for you that you had success! My goal, ultimately, would to be able to hack her out once a week for some exercise. She actually LOVES the trails and is darn good on them, and a super safe responsive horse. I'd like to teach my young kids on her.

I'm not too worried about expense, as my other mare is a SUPER easy keeper and requires nothing except some good teff. They are both on teff, and yet the lame mare had another "episode" last week (2 months post vet visit and diagnosis), so I have to think there is something metabolically going on. My next step is to have the vet out for that testing. I am contemplating whether I should do another set of Rays to see if there has been any movement, but I believe it is still a bit early.

About how much does it cost for your boys' composite shoes? Ours would HAVE to be glued on, she has no wall integrity right now. Nada. In fact, her sole is SO low, and actually isn't even sole now.. just growing to accommodate for the damage and degree of her coffin bone.

I just feel awful for this mare but I am prepared to do whatever it takes! I appreciate your response SO much, and I am hoping for a miracle.
 

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Thankyou!:). He is a Sweetie Boy. He has a very loving and communicative personality: especially when the chiropractor is working on him, lollol

1. A big “Ixnay” on the heart bars, lol. That is old school. There is so much new technology, metal heart bar shoes are one of those old school things that should be in a museum:).

I pay $43/pr directly from EasyCare. I like to buy directly from them because they can quickly answer my questions:)

I also buy everything else for the package because I am anal and want to know everything is here for the farrier. I have dealt with Stockhoffs for almost 20 years but there are other farrier supply places that might be cheaper:)

Joker is reset every five weeks. He has always grown a lot of hoof; sometimes early spring sees him getting reset at four week.

2. Diet is REALLY critical. Since your other horse is also an easy keeper, they could be on the same base diet which is pretty much nothing but forage and a condensed vit/min supplement mixed into a cup of Timothy pellets twice daily, lollol

It is very important to keep the NSC (non structural carbohydrates) shaved down to almost nothing in the feed pan. There isn’t much of anything in a bag that can keep the NSC under 10%.

2.1. A few of us on HF love HorseTech products and their customer service is consistently ten gold star.


I buy the meal form as it’s a little cheaper. The horses only need three ounces daily. I split it into two feedings.

2.2. I also feed both horses HorseTechs “Natural Vitamin E 5000”. I broke it down to give them each 3000 IU daily. The other horse gets extra Vitamin E to help him with his environmental allergies.

3. You could also give your mare pure MSM to help with inflammation.

4. I started feeding Joker SmartEarth’s Camelina Oil last Fall. It has made a huge difference in the inflammation in his sacrum and seems to have also helped improve the internal health of his hooves. Although it didn’t stop the Low Ringbone from developing:(

When the farrier was trimming him this last time she commented that, for everything Joker lives with, his soles are what the veterinary hospitals call “clinical white”, which is a good thing:)

Of course, it’s not cheap either but Joker only gets about one ounce daily.

When my other horse finishes his bag of Omega-3 Horseshine, I’m putting him on the Camelina Oil.

The company is based in Canada but they have a U.S. Facility.


****
Where your mare is concerned, nothing cheap and quick is going to work. I made some mistakes with Joker in the beginning (2012). What I am passing along that works for him, is the result of those expensive mistakes, from both my wallet and Joker’s comfort.

Knowing what I know now, I will stand against the firing wall in favor of the composite shoes and some form of flexible pad & packing.

I also advocate to keep a Horse in your horse’s predicament completely off bagged feed and stick with a condensed vit/min supplement that is soy-free.

All of this is strictly anecdotal, based on my personal experience. I’m not a nutritionist, nor a farrier even though I trimmed my own horses for years. If I can save someone some heartache, & some dollars by avoiding unnecessary “experiments” that most likely won’t work, I will:)

Finding a farrier who is well versed in rehabbing hooves is the most crucial issue. Diet is right on the farrier’s coat tails:)
 

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Hi,

It really does matter, IMHO, how the particular horse is feeling, how they're coping with it all, not just how much or little 'clinical' damage there is. I've known of horses who were penetrating on all 4 feet - leaving bloody footprints! - and horses with severe P3 loss, to come good, while horses who's rads look nothing more than that first xray, to be hobbling & sad no matter what. So, that's not in the least to say doesn't matter the level of clinical damage, just that to a degree, that's not a 'be all'.

So, if you can tell us how the horse is doing, in & out of padded boots, and if you can include hoof photos, including squarely from side-on at ground level, sole shots, etc, as the single view xrays(esp as the vet hasn't bothered to mark the feet or even measure angles!) doesn't give enough to be informed enough IMO.

I rehabbed my heart horse for 2 years before I had to put him down when he just couldn't get up.
*Firstly, I am NOT meaning this to be a judgement, as I am not assuming to know any more than those few words you've told about the situation, which I know may have given me the wrong idea... But that just doesn't sound like he was 'rehabbed' at all, if he finally got so bad he couldn't get up.

A lot of people seem to have the idea that if they 'rescue' a horse, so long as they improve the situation, so long as the horse is getting a better deal than it was before, then that's fine & dandy. A lot of people seem to not care, or be oblivious of(or refuse to see) a horse's level of suffering. Or at least, that if they're not suffering as bad as they once were, or if it's not constantly bad, then that is OK. I am very much of the view of 'quality over quantity' - just because you CAN keep the horse alive and in a better situation than they came from, doesn't mean you SHOULD, that it's good enough. If they're still suffering, without hope of actual rehab, or if that suffering is going to be long term, then I truly don't think it's fair to put them through all that, for the sake of not wanting to let them go - death may be the kindest option in many cases if they're 'too far gone'.

So, again, not judging your comment, but just try to be very considerate & objective(don't let what you WANT to see/believe influence what you ARE seeing) about how the horse is feeling/coping. What real, honest chance is there for them to 'come good', how long is it going to take, for them to be suffering in the meantime, how well can you manage and minimise that suffering...

So, what I see from the rads...

The first one, the good foot(relatively). There is no real loss/remodelling of the tip of P3. The joint spacing of P2/P3 is a little uneven, navicular bone looks low on the joint & nav. area looks a little... messy, but I'm not an expert on rads & I'd also want to see better rads/different angles for more detail of that.

I've drawn green lines on it for what I am seeing that's good/right; The bones appear to be pretty well aligned with eachother & the distal angle(ground surface) of P3 is raised around 7 degrees at the heel(normal) ; The dorsal wall is pretty well aligned(parallel) with the dorsal aspect of P3; There appears to be adequate sole depth under the tip of P3(assuming sole comes to near bottom of pic, as vet hasn't marked).
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I've drawn red lines for what I see as obvious probs; that is, assuming(because vet hasn't marked) the top horizontal line is at the coronary border, that the line marking the top of the extensor process(top tip of P3) is a lot lower than that, whereas it should be close to level, or even slightly higher - this shows the hoof capsule has been pushed up around the bony column. Or alternatively, you could say the hoof has 'sunk' low within the capsule. And the toe is a little too long/forward - the red curved line is approx how I'd like to see/trim it.

The other foot... There is a fair amount of bone loss & also a 'ski tip' at the tip(what's left) of P3, showing the damage has been very chronic - going on more than just the last few years. There's an interesting... mess above that ski tip too. Looks quite 'porous', lacking density what is left at that tip but I can't tell from that rad where the terminal arch/major vascular channels are, except to say there's not much below them. Generally if the bone loss reaches the terminal arch, that can be considered... terminal.

Also seems to be some ringbone(osteo arthritis), including articular(in the joint) which will be painful & irrepairable - articular ringbone pain can often be managed adequately with painkillers, until such time as the joint fuses completely & the horse may become pain free - weighing up whether that is all worth it is another thing. Nav. region is all messy too, looks like there's at least some bone remodelling/calcification around the impar lig.

Red lines show the bony column isn't aligned - P3 is 'broken forward', angled steeper than the other phalanges, with distal angle of P3 quite steep. Dorsal wall is not aligned with P3, flares forward quite a bit. Sole is quite thin under P3 & bones sitting low in the capsule. Curved line at toe shows how much excess & approx where I'd keep it trimmed to. None of these factors(of the red lines) is 'incurable', but given the amount of arthritic changes in the joints, it's possible that even attempting to 'improve' angles will cause more harm - so it might be a question of whether you can just manage what you've got adequately, without changing much(except 'backing up' & beveling the toe).
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@loosie said:

It really does matter, IMHO, how the particular horse is feeling, how they're coping with it all, not just how much or little 'clinical' damage there is. I've known of horses who were penetrating on all 4 feet - leaving bloody footprints! - and horses with severe P3 loss, to come good, while horses who's rads look nothing more than that first xray, to be hobbling & sad no matter what.”

Yes, this ^^^^ IS an important part of the equation that I left out. When I told the lameness vet I would give Joker six months, he replied, “this horse is a fighter, he will make it and fool everyone”.

So yes, that is another crucial piece of the puzzle - how much will and fight your mare has in her:)
 

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Sorry to all the barefoot gurus but your barefoot trimmer needs to go. At least for now, this is not a time to declare barefoot is the only way.
Now just reading replies... To the above, IF your 'barefoot trimmer' believes keeping the horse barefoot is the only way, that there is no place for any other management options, THEN I would be inclined to agree. But there are many 'barefoot trimmers'(I consider myself under that 'umbrella') and farriers for that matter, who know that while barefoot may well be best, generally speaking & for most horses, most of the time, that's not to say it is for all, or that shoes are necessarily 'evil'. I'd imagine that a 'barefoot trimmer' who has studied with Pete Ramey is very likely of the latter persuasion & has a good idea of what would be best/needed for this horse. And unfortunately, possibly their 'pessimistic' outlook is because they know the horse(not just the few words & rads we have here) & have more objective knowledge.

My horse is in EasyCare‘s composite shoes.
Yep, I personally think there is VERY little place for conventional rigid steel peripheral loading rims, for the sake of the horse. But all shoes are far from equal, and FLEXIBLE composite shoes with good support/protection UNDER the foot are generally very good options, IME.

she suggested heart bar shoes ... willing to do what it takes to make her comfortable to hopefully curve this rotation and bring the bone back where it belongs.
Conventional rigid rims - be they bar or otherwise - are often effective palliative measures. Meaning that they can reduce feeling to allow the horse to be more comfortable/pain free. They aren't, IME, generally helpful if you want improvement/rehab though, they generally do more damage or at least inhibit 'progress'. But of course, in some situations, palliative management may well be best you can hope for. I sus that 'bad' foot may be at that point, due not to the (not severe IME) 'rotation' & position of bones within the capsule, but because of the amount of bone loss & the osteo damage to joints - it may well be BAD for the horse for you to attempt to 'derotate' & 'improve' angles for eg.

ultimately, would to be able to hack her out once a week for some exercise. She actually LOVES the trails and is darn good on them, and a super safe responsive horse. I'd like to teach my young kids on her.
I'd forget that dream, sorry. Nice if it happens, but I think 'paddock sound' might be the best you can reasonably hope for.

my other mare is a SUPER easy keeper and requires nothing except some good teff. They are both on teff, and the lame mare had another "episode" last week (2 months post vet visit and diagnosis), so I have to think there is something metabolically going on. My next step is to have the vet out for that testing. I am contemplating whether I should do another set of Rays to see if there has been any movement, but I believe it is still a bit early.
If your other mare is 'super easy keeper' then I'd be a little concerned about her too. If she (& lame mare) is ONLY on teff hay, it could be nutritional imbalance that is the biggest factor. There are many causes/factors of laminitis aside from 'metabolic' issues, and nutritional balance is one of them. That can also be a factor behind metabolic 'disorder' too.

Further to that, IR type issues, while some horses/types(& humans, etc) are more 'prone' than others, it's not really a 'disease', but a normal bodily function. Animals are built to 'pack on' extra fat in 'good seasons', in order to cope with the regular 'bad seasons' nature throws at them, when they get to use up those fat stores. When a body is taking on too much for it's needs, 'insulin resistance' is triggered, to stop cells absorbing any more, and send the rest to fat stores. Trouble is, these days in Western society especially, when humans & their animals are chronically 'in a good paddock' & never/rarely get to see 'hard seasons' & use up those fat stores regularly, it creates a myriad of health issues. Including laminitis in horses. So... I personally wouldn't bother with getting the horse tested for IR, just look at body condition, feed etc & consider that ALL horses are 'prone' to this state, esp if they're 'easy keepers' & don't get regular 'hard seasons' to use up fat stores & 'reset' the metabolism.

So, how long have you had the horse? How much change have you made to her feet, angles, diet, body condition...? If not long/not a lot, not sure the point of wanting more rads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Now just reading replies... To the above, IF your 'barefoot trimmer' believes keeping the horse barefoot is the only way, that there is no place for any other management options, THEN I would be inclined to agree. But there are many 'barefoot trimmers'(I consider myself under that 'umbrella') and farriers for that matter, who know that while barefoot may well be best, generally speaking & for most horses, most of the time, that's not to say it is for all, or that shoes are necessarily 'evil'. I'd imagine that a 'barefoot trimmer' who has studied with Pete Ramey is very likely of the latter persuasion & has a good idea of what would be best/needed for this horse. And unfortunately, possibly their 'pessimistic' outlook is because they know the horse(not just the few words & rads we have here) & have more objective knowledge.



Yep, I personally think there is VERY little place for conventional rigid steel peripheral loading rims, for the sake of the horse. But all shoes are far from equal, and FLEXIBLE composite shoes with good support/protection UNDER the foot are generally very good options, IME.



Conventional rigid rims - be they bar or otherwise - are often effective palliative measures. Meaning that they can reduce feeling to allow the horse to be more comfortable/pain free. They aren't, IME, generally helpful if you want improvement/rehab though, they generally do more damage or at least inhibit 'progress'. But of course, in some situations, palliative management may well be best you can hope for. I sus that 'bad' foot may be at that point, due not to the (not severe IME) 'rotation' & position of bones within the capsule, but because of the amount of bone loss & the osteo damage to joints - it may well be BAD for the horse for you to attempt to 'derotate' & 'improve' angles for eg.



I'd forget that dream, sorry. Nice if it happens, but I think 'paddock sound' might be the best you can reasonably hope for.



If your other mare is 'super easy keeper' then I'd be a little concerned about her too. If she (& lame mare) is ONLY on teff hay, it could be nutritional imbalance that is the biggest factor. There are many causes/factors of laminitis aside from 'metabolic' issues, and nutritional balance is one of them. That can also be a factor behind metabolic 'disorder' too.

Further to that, IR type issues, while some horses/types(& humans, etc) are more 'prone' than others, it's not really a 'disease', but a normal bodily function. Animals are built to 'pack on' extra fat in 'good seasons', in order to cope with the regular 'bad seasons' nature throws at them, when they get to use up those fat stores. When a body is taking on too much for it's needs, 'insulin resistance' is triggered, to stop cells absorbing any more, and send the rest to fat stores. Trouble is, these days in Western society especially, when humans & their animals are chronically 'in a good paddock' & never/rarely get to see 'hard seasons' & use up those fat stores regularly, it creates a myriad of health issues. Including laminitis in horses. So... I personally wouldn't bother with getting the horse tested for IR, just look at body condition, feed etc & consider that ALL horses are 'prone' to this state, esp if they're 'easy keepers' & don't get regular 'hard seasons' to use up fat stores & 'reset' the metabolism.

So, how long have you had the horse? How much change have you made to her feet, angles, diet, body condition...? If not long/not a lot, not sure the point of wanting more rads.
I am responding quickly and will have more detail tomorrow! I have known this horse for years. I have owned her for 3 months. She has been trimmed every 3 weeks since this X-ray was taken. When the owner before me got her, she was perfectly sound. The pasture and weight she put on affected her swiftly after that. Then intermittent lameness. About 1.5 years ago was when she showed constant soreness.

Right now she still favors the hoof and moves quickly to get off of it. New trimmer has only trimmed her twice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Now just reading replies... To the above, IF your 'barefoot trimmer' believes keeping the horse barefoot is the only way, that there is no place for any other management options, THEN I would be inclined to agree. But there are many 'barefoot trimmers'(I consider myself under that 'umbrella') and farriers for that matter, who know that while barefoot may well be best, generally speaking & for most horses, most of the time, that's not to say it is for all, or that shoes are necessarily 'evil'. I'd imagine that a 'barefoot trimmer' who has studied with Pete Ramey is very likely of the latter persuasion & has a good idea of what would be best/needed for this horse. And unfortunately, possibly their 'pessimistic' outlook is because they know the horse(not just the few words & rads we have here) & have more objective knowledge.



Yep, I personally think there is VERY little place for conventional rigid steel peripheral loading rims, for the sake of the horse. But all shoes are far from equal, and FLEXIBLE composite shoes with good support/protection UNDER the foot are generally very good options, IME.



Conventional rigid rims - be they bar or otherwise - are often effective palliative measures. Meaning that they can reduce feeling to allow the horse to be more comfortable/pain free. They aren't, IME, generally helpful if you want improvement/rehab though, they generally do more damage or at least inhibit 'progress'. But of course, in some situations, palliative management may well be best you can hope for. I sus that 'bad' foot may be at that point, due not to the (not severe IME) 'rotation' & position of bones within the capsule, but because of the amount of bone loss & the osteo damage to joints - it may well be BAD for the horse for you to attempt to 'derotate' & 'improve' angles for eg.



I'd forget that dream, sorry. Nice if it happens, but I think 'paddock sound' might be the best you can reasonably hope for.



If your other mare is 'super easy keeper' then I'd be a little concerned about her too. If she (& lame mare) is ONLY on teff hay, it could be nutritional imbalance that is the biggest factor. There are many causes/factors of laminitis aside from 'metabolic' issues, and nutritional balance is one of them. That can also be a factor behind metabolic 'disorder' too.

Further to that, IR type issues, while some horses/types(& humans, etc) are more 'prone' than others, it's not really a 'disease', but a normal bodily function. Animals are built to 'pack on' extra fat in 'good seasons', in order to cope with the regular 'bad seasons' nature throws at them, when they get to use up those fat stores. When a body is taking on too much for it's needs, 'insulin resistance' is triggered, to stop cells absorbing any more, and send the rest to fat stores. Trouble is, these days in Western society especially, when humans & their animals are chronically 'in a good paddock' & never/rarely get to see 'hard seasons' & use up those fat stores regularly, it creates a myriad of health issues. Including laminitis in horses. So... I personally wouldn't bother with getting the horse tested for IR, just look at body condition, feed etc & consider that ALL horses are 'prone' to this state, esp if they're 'easy keepers' & don't get regular 'hard seasons' to use up fat stores & 'reset' the metabolism.

So, how long have you had the horse? How much change have you made to her feet, angles, diet, body condition...? If not long/not a lot, not sure the point of wanting more rads.
About her coffin bone, the vet said the damage at the tip is a fracture!
 
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