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Hmm.. he's got some famous names, that's for sure.. but he's a 2003 model, and a gelding... do you have race records? By now he should have proven himself.. what are your plans?
 

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hi,

well...i found from his records that he has had 21 starts and several wins and some seconds and thirds. I don't know the exact details,though.

what happened is he was left at a boarding stable and the poor guy had to be legally given to the barn owner because the owner wouldn't pay his board/feed bills. anyways, apparently he wasn't a bad racer at all his owner just fell onto hard times. the barn owner offered him to me for $300.00 and has offered to help me get him into shape for the summer races.

I have always been very interested in getting into horse racing and this seems like a foot in the door. I wouldn't be expecting a lot and would do it more for experience.

but like i said....lol...other than seabiscuit i don't know a lot of tb lines.
so they look pretty good?

i have met him a couple times and he is a real cutie and sweet and I would love to give him a chance....
 

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My first questions would be: how long has it been since he's raced? Does he have any injuries? I would strongly suggest getting a vet's opinion. 7 years old is quite old for a racer..
 

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oh...is it? oh yes...i would definitely get him vet checked first. i have been told he is completely sound...but...ya know.... i am not sure how long it has been since he has been raced. i will be able to find more out about him tomorrow when i talk to the barn owner....thanks for your help!
 

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Hey, I am considering buying this racehorse....are his bloodlines any good? I am not super familiar with TBs...I am an Arab and Peruvian person:p



Free 5-Cross Thoroughbred Pedigrees from equineline.com - Thoroughbred Pedigree now with Free Interactive Nicking Cat&dam_name=Cuties Daughter&foaling_year=2003&nicking_stats_indicator=Y
You only have 1 good horse up close and that is Storm Cat. Storm Cat was good but had a reputation of throwing "difficult" offspring.

For a 7 year old gelding with little behind him....I would make a nice hunter out of him.
 

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im going to be honest here. if youre going to buy a horse to race, make sure you get yourself a good trainer. its not all as easy as it sounds. you also have to get licensed which is going to cost you. i spent a few hundred to get licensed to own, train, and groom. also if you decide you want to train it you do have to take tests and know all of the rules of racing, equip., and show you are able to train a horse a race mile. if you have not worked with TBs on the track before, i suggest getting your grooms license (if youre planning to train this horse) and go work for a good trainer. let them show you the ins and outs of training a racehorse.

also get up to date on your chemistry... i know this sounds horrible, but racing isnt what it used to be. you need to know about drugs. especially high powered drugs like epogen. a horse who was previously on epogen, if taken off, will typically never race again, and you need to know the signs of what to look for for an epogen crash horse. you also need to know what you can and cant use, and what people are using that youre racing against. its horrible, yes, but the racing world is more chemistry than training now. if youre not willing to do what you need to beat other horses, you wont make money. most horses (there are exceptions- horses who do not do well with pre-racing) arent compatible with horses who are on drugs. its just how it is.

know what youre getting into. the racing industry is very shady. its not all the glitz and glam people make it out to be. unless you have a horse with real talent, real want-to win, and good drugs, youre not going to make anything. and its very expencive to keep a racehorse. Also 7 is not old for a racehorse, dont let age deter you anyway. i prefer an old racehorse to a young one, those are horses who know the game and know what they need to do to win.
 

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Also, check into your local racing circuit. I don't know how much you care, but as an aged gelding that has a mediocre at best race record, around here the only thing you could enter him in is claiming races. It would probably be a nice profit if he ran in a $4,000 claimer and someone actually wanted him, but be aware it could happen.

I agree with everyone else though - 7 years old is getting up there for a racehorse, especially a racehorse who's been out of work. It can be done, I have a friend who owns racehorses and is racing a 7 year old in the aged claiming races, but he's been thoroughly vet checked and approved to do so.

Racing is expensive and starting off with just an aged claimer in your string isn't the best way to get your foot in the door. Between training costs and entry fees, I doubt you'll see any profit unless he miraculously makes a huge come around as an older gelding which is slim at best.
 

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Go here and check out his complete race record.

Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information

Of his 21 race starts, he has won 1 time, placed 2nd 2 times, third 3 times, and earned $3663 in winnings. The last race he ran in was a $2500 claiming race and he came in 5th of 8 and won 88$. (I am not sure how to read the report-- it looks like he was claimed.)

IMO that is not really a successful racing career.

Here is only a moderately successful racing career--
Equibase Company - Thoroughbred Racing Information

32 starts with a 9-8-1 record, and earning $76,404. She raced until 7 and was retired sound to become a broodmare. I only would call her racing career moderately successful because she was not a stakes contender, she only ran fast enough to compete in races with moderate purses, and in her last few races she did run in a few claimers down around $4000. she did have a pretty nice win-place-show ratio to races run.

You could try racing with this gelding, but my opinion is that if he hasn't, at his age, run well enough to win more than one 1 of his 21 races, at the lower levels he is racing at, your odds of him winning enough to even pay for his training and feed are very slim. if he is sound and attractive, re-training him for a career as a hunter, jumper, or other type of riding horse to re-sell would be much better odds for at least breaking even or making a small profit.

Just to clarify-- I don't race horses and its not my "thing" so I am speaking from an outside perspective. I do own the mare whos record I posted-- I bought her as a proven broodmare and am deciding what Appaloosa stallion she will fit best with for producing all-around Appaloosa performers, with a possibility of producing an all-around showhorse that can also be competitive in the speed events at Appaloosa breed shows. (Barrels poles, keyhole, etc.)

When her previous owner decided to sell her, he was not successful in marketing her as a race horse broodmare, and he worked at the track, so that tells you something about how her record was being considered as far as her "success".
 

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Riding horse.

Based on EasttoWest's excellent research, the real reason this horse was taken on a mechanic's lein by the barn owner is that he could no longer race and win enough to recover his fees and expenses.

Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing
proposition.

Unless you have a close personal friend who 1.) has a trainer's license 2.) likes to run horses off of the fram 3.) is willing to take this prospect on "on the cuff" AND the horse is sound, I wouldn't touch it.

I also wouldn't touch it if you're more than 2 - 3 hours drive from a cheap track. (You can run horses off the farm from a farther distance, but transport costs will mitigate any winnings.)
 

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After all that was said - and it was all great advise - when you pay your $300, do you get his JC papers and are they restricted so that he can't race?

One other thing to consider is that if it was feasible to race him and make money or at least break even, he would most likely never have been given up.

On the other hand, a sound TB of his age for $300 is one heck of a nice deal for a riding horse.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
hi...you all have very good points!

He was raced last summer several times and apparently placed a few times. He is seven and yes, comes with JC papers which the lady has signed over in hand and they are not on restriction. I already have two trainers (one licensed at the track) that have agreed to help me completely recondition him. He is boarded about eh.....5 miles maybe from that track so that wouldn't be a problem.

And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse.

So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?

thanks again for all your wonderful help and input everyone!
 

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>>>> And I suppose...if i got him...and i raced him this summer and it was a flop I could always try him for dressage which is what my real chosen discipline is..lol. He is pretty big and once he is in shape I think he will make a really nice horse.

It sounds like you have a good situation for trying out your interest in racing-- being so close, having training friends, etc, so your invenstment in trying out racing is pretty minimal compared to many. However be aware that one of the ways this horse could "flop" is by getting hurt, which could seriously change his after-track value.

I have another TB mare which I acquired for exactly that reason-- she had been running cheap races for a few years and changed hands a few times always with the hope that she might "make it" for the new owners/trainers-- well bred, gorgeous big mare-- but she ended up fracturing a sesamoid. She had to have immediate vet care and was on stall rest at the track for 45 days, and then another 30 once she got here. She will be sound enough to be a broodmare, MIGHT be sound enough for light riding on the flat, but will probably always have a big ankle and won't be able to have the career she could have if she had raced a few starts less.



>>>> So his bloodlines really aren't all that...or they might be okay?

His bloodlines are fine, but he's not running "up to par" with the best in his lines and being realistic, he probably never will. They don't always. Take the mare above-- She had 59 starts, with a record of 2-1-11, earned around $23,000, and almost all of her races were $4000 and less claimers. Not stellar.

She was sired by a graded stakes winner of over $450,000 in only 16 starts and her grandsire was the Leading Sire in North America in 1980. Her dam was a stakes-placed winner sired by a horse that won over $500,000 in only 15 starts and was exported to India where he is a leading sire. So her bloodlines are good and proven up-close, as well as having the typical famous winners further back. But she just didn't run like her ancestors.

AND, then she got hurt.
Being a pretty, big, well bred mare, she has the potential to have some use for someone-- but she has absolutely no value in this market as a TB-- she was basically given to me and it was that or face being euthanized because the season was over, she was hurt, and her time at the track was through.

The gelding you are considering could run another year or 2, maybe-- he might give you the opportunity for some fun and experience. However, he is at the top-end of the age that horses usually keep running, and there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.
 

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ok im going to say again, 7 is not old for a racehorse. many many racehorses are older, its just that the young ones are the ones you see in the spotlight all the time. the average age of all the horses in our barn is about 7, and they have a long time to race ahead of them yet. dont get stuck on age, it really means NOTHING. yes you arent going to be able to race in the high money races like stakes and such, but just because its a claimer doesnt mean they cant make money. there are also condition races of which he could race- those focus around money made in a certain amount of starts, and usually dont have any age restrictions. the unfortunate part with those is those are usually your better horses (theyre in condition races so they dont get claimed) and younger horses learning to race who are potential stakes horses.

let me ask though, do you have the money to race him for a summer? let me show you something here so youre not shocked when it comes to it. to race my mare this is what i have to pay:

starting fee $10
lasix fee $15
prerace around $25 typically

so this is already $45 youre in the hole before you even race. PLUS the cost of training, stabling (if youre on a farm), feed/hay, vetcare, etc. racehorses are heavily vetted to keep them in top condition to be competitive in racing.

also your horse will have to qualify to be able to race again. so youre going to have to put time and effort into getting him back and make sure he can qualify to even get to racing. my mare is due to qualify in about 2 weeks, she just had a little over a month off. before shes even qualified to race i have put $300 vetcare into her to get her back into racing condition (ankles and right hock and stifle injected). not to mention the time (i train my own so i dont pay a trainer) to get her back in condition. average trainer around here is $30/day.

i wouldnt focus on his breeding, focus on his past career. see what kinds of races he was in where he was finishing. dont look at all his bad finishes as "well hes just crap" a lot happens in a race that determines where they finish. post position is a huge one, your jockey (yes they give a bad race sometimes- its hard to determine how a race will unfold at times, and theyre left to make split second decisions), track conditions, etc. it all has to be taken into consideration.

Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.

iridehorses- your statement of the horse being worth races or else he wouldnt have been sold is sort of true. this is a possibility. BUT here is what happens a lot of times... a cheaper horse will be sold out of a barn that is trying to improve their stock. even if they make money. what happens is when a barn is improving stock they get rid of cheap, older horses, and horses who have problems, and bring in young expensive horses. this improves the quality of the stable to raise standards. there are awards given for trainer, owner, and jockeys who have done well at a meet. doing this gives them a greater chance at getting that.

at $300, i would say he would be best off as a riding horse. his career hasnt been great, and youre going to put a lot of money into getting him back racing, than youre likely to make out of it. once in a great while a horse does make a comeback, but this is ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE. if you want to get into racing and have a decent horse, youre going to have to spend a few grand on the horse.
 

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there is always a risk of him getting hurt, up to and including a career-ending injury. Just something to consider when weighing your options before you decide.
yes. but i want to add the injury is not always career-ending, but life ending. many horses are put down because the injury is just too extensive. i remember one of our trotters that we had was going to win a race. all he took was ONE bad step (no ones fault, it just is something that sometimes happens) and he shattered his pastern. he had to be put down right away. this is realistic. it happens. its something to really think about. i get attached to my horses and hate to see anything like that happen, and it breaks my **** heart when it does. but its a risk you take, in any discipline really, that something could happen. i almost had to quit racing a few times it was so bad. i couldnt deal with it anymore. the last horse we had die on us we had for 2 days, TWO DAYS!!! he had went out and jogged and came in, later he was being shod. as soon as they finished he started to go down. we got him out of crossties as fast as possible. he stumbled all over and groaned. almost killed my younger cousin because he fell on top of him into a metal stall door. he ended up dying because he had had a blood clot that moved to his brain at that time. now its nothing we did wrong, but it could have been caused by previous owners using different drugs on him. *shug* you never know what the horse has had....
 

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Maura- racing is not miserable for all horses. this is what those horses were bred to do, and for the most part they highly enjoy the race. there are horses who do not like it yes, those are your sulkers. but for the most part... no... that was really untrue and kind of hurtful to those who race. you make us sound like monsters who dont give a crap about how the horse feels.
Please go back and read my entire post. I have worked in the industry. I am *well* aware that it's not miserable for all or even most horses. My point was that a 7 year old, running in cheap races for an owner on a tight budget and most likely, running off of the farm is not a lot of fun long term nor is it a money making endeavor. I know, because I have many friends - small breeders, excercise riders, vets, hangers on, who've done it.

The fact that he's 5 miles from the track and has a friend with a trainer's licencse changes the equation somewhat. If the horse trains well, and he wants to run him for the summer for the fun of it, maybe it's not such a terrible idea. But, as another poster mentioned above, he runs the risk of injury and ruining the horse as a riding horse.
 

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Flogging a 7 year old around cheap tracks in claimers is a miserable experience for pretty much everybody involved, esp. the horse!, and bound to be a money losing proposition.
this is what you said... it was offencive. i was stating my option on what you said. i dont need to re-read, i read the whole post many times before i commented.

anyway.... its not miserable if youre doing it for fun and true love of the sport. if youre trying to make a living off of it, thats when its miserable for some, unless you still have that true love of the sport or youre making money.

and you run the risk of injury yes, but you run that risk in ANY discipline. not just racing.
 

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AlmagroN and Maura - let's not get into it and let's stay on topic.
 

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It was not intended to be offensive; it was intended to be a statement of my opinion based on my experiences. I have a *lot* of experience with people trying to run cheap horses off the farm and and least not *lose* buckets of money. It's fun for a while, but again, IMO and IME, not for long.

There was nothing in there that criticized the sport of racing, racehorses in general or racing people.

I love the track, and I loved working with racehorses. I would go back to it if I could. I am absolutely not one of those people who think racing should be banned, or that the track is all crooked and inhabited by sleazy characters. Sorry if you interpreted my remarks as offensive. It was in no way intended.

Back to the OP's horse and concerns.
 
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