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My horsemanship class last week left me with some major questions about treatment of horses and what was ok and what was not, so I'm hoping that someone can give me a reason as to why the guy might have been doing this and if he was justified. And to those of you who are actual, legit, horse trainers, would you do the same thing?
I'm going to say what happened (in black) and then my reaction (in blue), just so ya'll know. =)
First off, the trainer's wife (the trainer is a big name AQHA trainer/judge, btw) was riding around a younger horse (under 4, at the most) in some sort of draw-rein get up. They weren't normal draw reins; the reins were attached to the cinch, then went through leather loops attached to the bit (which was a snaffle, thank goodness) and then the reins buckled together on the end like english reins. So right off, this woman has no real horizontal control over this horse, aside from what basic leg cues he might understand in his green as grass state. She was having difficulty turning him so he obviously didn't understand completely what he was supposed to be doing, and he had his head down by his knees from the draw reins since she was relying on them quite heavily.
That, I have less of an issue with. I don't agree with that sort of training, but different strokes for different folks. The horse also wasn't completely lost, "about to blow up" confused, which is where I really would have had an issue with that.
But then! She decided to take this horse over some obstacles. The obstacles in question were about 7 railroad ties, spaced about two feet apart from each other. She got this horse over about three of them but then he started getting his feet mixed up and he began panicking. He started veering out of them and since she had no "head control," she couldn't get him straight because he was tuning out her legs. Then, she tried again and he absolutely refused. She wasn't strong enough/respected enough to get him to move at all, so her husband, the trainer, got on. He immediately started digging the horse in the sides with his spurs and the horse started getting really, what I would call, about to go nutso. The trainer finally backed off and walked the horse around a bit after the horse reared twice. Then, he went back to the other side of the obstacle and started to try again. The horse was backing up, rearing, basically doing every sort of evasion possible. Eventually, the wife ran back into the barn, grabbed one split rein, clipped it on to one side of the horse's bit and started trying to "pull" it forward while her husband spurred the junk out of it. After trying that for around 20 minutes, they finally got the horse over the railroad ties. They went over the ties a few more times, then the trainer hopped off and the wife got back on. 30 minutes later, she's back at those railroad ties, trying to get this horse over them, and he's not budging. They try the leading thing, the trainer leading, wife riding, but that doesn't work and they give up.
First off, I don't understand the railroad ties thing. I can understand going through them as a really tight weave through or something, but going over them with the spacing that tight? Can someone explain that to me? I could understand going over them if there was a horse length in between each one so that the horse had time to figure out its feet, or if it was spaced that tightly and there were only 2-3. But 7 ties and 2 ft in between? That seems like it's asking for trouble to me...Then there's the issue of doing training new exercises like that on a horse that isn't set up, tack wise, to do well. Do people do that in normal, horse training situations? It seems like it's just setting the horse up for failure... I can understand it sometimes, somethings just must be dealt with whenever they appear, perfect tack or no, but with something that you don't NEED to do, like going over those ties?
Then, I don't understand why the trainer was insisting that the horse go over all 7 at the first time when he had sets of one and two railroad ties to get the horse going over comfortably, before even touching the 7. Maybe he was trying to "solve the issue with the 7"? But this horse had just as much of an issue with one and two of the ties... Can someone explain that? Then, isn't it kind of self defeating to let the horse refuse to go over them later on? The trainer in me says that that is just shooting yourself in the foot for next time. Yes?
Then, later on, the very same scenario happened with the dam of the previous horse, only take out the wife (and draw rein things) and insert a student rider. The student was letting the horse get away with not going over a lone railroad tie, I was trying to help the rider out with it but she was just not being strong enough with the horse so the horse was just taking advantage. The trainer hopped on and started trying to get this mare to go over all 7 of those railroad ties again, when she was having difficulty with one of them, let alone two. A similar scene ensued, backing up, rearing, etc but she finally caved and rushed across the ties, terrified of them. After making her go over them a few more times (each time she threw a fit, then gave in a rushed) he let the student back on her.
I obviously didn't ride either of those horses that day but I have ridden the mare many times and she's just that type of horse that seems to do best with a quiet rider. Now, obviously, since I wasn't on either horse, I don't know whether they would have done better if I was riding them. I have to believe that since the trainer was having issues, I would have too. I mean, he's a famous trainer! He's been riding and training horses for far longer than I've been alive and I have no delusions of my "training prowess". :lol:
However, I do wonder about the methods he used. Do they make sense to you? Am I wrong in questioning what he was doing? I don't want to assume I know better, or that his way was unnecessary, but it did seem a little over the top... I mean, when a horse rears in confusion with me after I've asked it to do something I don't just keep asking for the same thing. I evaluate what I was doing and try to break the request down into smaller bits that the horse can understand more easily. That makes sense to me... And it's worked quite a few times for me, on various horses...
Can someone help me understand? I really do want to understand.
Thanks for reading!
I'm going to say what happened (in black) and then my reaction (in blue), just so ya'll know. =)
First off, the trainer's wife (the trainer is a big name AQHA trainer/judge, btw) was riding around a younger horse (under 4, at the most) in some sort of draw-rein get up. They weren't normal draw reins; the reins were attached to the cinch, then went through leather loops attached to the bit (which was a snaffle, thank goodness) and then the reins buckled together on the end like english reins. So right off, this woman has no real horizontal control over this horse, aside from what basic leg cues he might understand in his green as grass state. She was having difficulty turning him so he obviously didn't understand completely what he was supposed to be doing, and he had his head down by his knees from the draw reins since she was relying on them quite heavily.
That, I have less of an issue with. I don't agree with that sort of training, but different strokes for different folks. The horse also wasn't completely lost, "about to blow up" confused, which is where I really would have had an issue with that.
But then! She decided to take this horse over some obstacles. The obstacles in question were about 7 railroad ties, spaced about two feet apart from each other. She got this horse over about three of them but then he started getting his feet mixed up and he began panicking. He started veering out of them and since she had no "head control," she couldn't get him straight because he was tuning out her legs. Then, she tried again and he absolutely refused. She wasn't strong enough/respected enough to get him to move at all, so her husband, the trainer, got on. He immediately started digging the horse in the sides with his spurs and the horse started getting really, what I would call, about to go nutso. The trainer finally backed off and walked the horse around a bit after the horse reared twice. Then, he went back to the other side of the obstacle and started to try again. The horse was backing up, rearing, basically doing every sort of evasion possible. Eventually, the wife ran back into the barn, grabbed one split rein, clipped it on to one side of the horse's bit and started trying to "pull" it forward while her husband spurred the junk out of it. After trying that for around 20 minutes, they finally got the horse over the railroad ties. They went over the ties a few more times, then the trainer hopped off and the wife got back on. 30 minutes later, she's back at those railroad ties, trying to get this horse over them, and he's not budging. They try the leading thing, the trainer leading, wife riding, but that doesn't work and they give up.
First off, I don't understand the railroad ties thing. I can understand going through them as a really tight weave through or something, but going over them with the spacing that tight? Can someone explain that to me? I could understand going over them if there was a horse length in between each one so that the horse had time to figure out its feet, or if it was spaced that tightly and there were only 2-3. But 7 ties and 2 ft in between? That seems like it's asking for trouble to me...Then there's the issue of doing training new exercises like that on a horse that isn't set up, tack wise, to do well. Do people do that in normal, horse training situations? It seems like it's just setting the horse up for failure... I can understand it sometimes, somethings just must be dealt with whenever they appear, perfect tack or no, but with something that you don't NEED to do, like going over those ties?
Then, I don't understand why the trainer was insisting that the horse go over all 7 at the first time when he had sets of one and two railroad ties to get the horse going over comfortably, before even touching the 7. Maybe he was trying to "solve the issue with the 7"? But this horse had just as much of an issue with one and two of the ties... Can someone explain that? Then, isn't it kind of self defeating to let the horse refuse to go over them later on? The trainer in me says that that is just shooting yourself in the foot for next time. Yes?
Then, later on, the very same scenario happened with the dam of the previous horse, only take out the wife (and draw rein things) and insert a student rider. The student was letting the horse get away with not going over a lone railroad tie, I was trying to help the rider out with it but she was just not being strong enough with the horse so the horse was just taking advantage. The trainer hopped on and started trying to get this mare to go over all 7 of those railroad ties again, when she was having difficulty with one of them, let alone two. A similar scene ensued, backing up, rearing, etc but she finally caved and rushed across the ties, terrified of them. After making her go over them a few more times (each time she threw a fit, then gave in a rushed) he let the student back on her.
I obviously didn't ride either of those horses that day but I have ridden the mare many times and she's just that type of horse that seems to do best with a quiet rider. Now, obviously, since I wasn't on either horse, I don't know whether they would have done better if I was riding them. I have to believe that since the trainer was having issues, I would have too. I mean, he's a famous trainer! He's been riding and training horses for far longer than I've been alive and I have no delusions of my "training prowess". :lol:
However, I do wonder about the methods he used. Do they make sense to you? Am I wrong in questioning what he was doing? I don't want to assume I know better, or that his way was unnecessary, but it did seem a little over the top... I mean, when a horse rears in confusion with me after I've asked it to do something I don't just keep asking for the same thing. I evaluate what I was doing and try to break the request down into smaller bits that the horse can understand more easily. That makes sense to me... And it's worked quite a few times for me, on various horses...
Can someone help me understand? I really do want to understand.
Thanks for reading!