[Oxer]

i haven't ever seen anything like this before.... but i went through some of the threads on this sub-forum and am now under the impression that this is called "club hoof". This mare is about 15 years old, 17.2, imported warmblood. She did the meter forties in Canada, and is now a lesson horse. I would assume that this type of deformity would cause her to be in great pain, with an inability to jump as big as she did/does. She stocks up pretty bad, and is on Isoxsuprine nearly every day. So excuse my ignorance here, but how is it possible for her to jump that big without being completely lame afterward? Is this something that simply doesn't effect a horses' comfort as well as performance?

 

[MyBoyPuck]

Holy crap. Now that's a weird shaped foot. I'll be interested to see what the experts have to say.

 

[bntnail]

Search DSLD.

Degenerative Suspensory Ligament Desmitis

PS. Not a club foot.:wink:

 

[lubylol]

Do you have any confirmation pictures of her? I'd love to see what she looks like with it
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[Oxer]

hmmm... bnt, i'm not sure that's entirely what is going on with this mare.
Equine Podiatry | Dr. Stephen O'Grady, veterinarians, farriers, books, articles
this link suggests that it's dreadfully painful for the horse, and even *Quote* "DSLD has a grave prognosis for the equine athlete." So how is it possible, for a horse to have such a terrible genetic issue to still have the ability to jump without constant lameness??

 

[Oxer]

i will try and get one tomorrow morning when i'm out at the barn. You guys will just die when you see the way she stands. It's literally like... walking on your tippy toes 24 HOURS A DAY! it looks pretty rough to tell you the truth.

 

[Prinella]

That's a weird angle! Subbing

 

[Oxer]

okay... so couple of pics...
one on the flat. (Trot)
and one jumping (4 foot 9 inches!)
you can see more on the trot shot that she in on her toes when she is moving. very strange eh?!

 

[bntnail]

Do both hinds present this way or only the right?

If both, then I would still lean to DSLD based only on pics w/o foot in hand.

If only in one foot/leg, then most likely not DSLD but a flexural deformity due to inlury. Most likely in the suspensory apperatus.

Still isn't a club foot and horse isn't sound, reguardess of being jumped or not.:shock:

 

[Horseman56]

Without better photos I'll proffer a wild-azzed guess at best.

Bilateral, ****-footed club. Looks "less" than clubby since the farrier has taken the heels down in an effort to create the illusion of "normalcy". Result is... horse finds it uncomfortable to load the heels and hence... toe stabs.

Possible subluxation of the pastern joint; may present thin in the anterior sole region. Would be interesting to see if caudal wedging would allow this horse to better load the heels.

I can see why Bntnail would suggest DSLD and might agree if the horse loaded the heels. The toe stabbing gait/stance suggests flexoral problem, probably associated with reduced length DDFT flexor/musculature structures. Conditioning and "compensation" allows the horse to do his job... for now. Eventually, gravity will takes it toll and things will become more difficult to manage.

Static photos are usually fine but this is a case better reviewed in person before offering anything even remotely definitive.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Cowgirls Boots]

SubbIng this is interesting.
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[Oxer]

so we can all pretty much agree that this is relatively painful for the horse....? and is something that can be "treated" with corrective shoeing?

 

[missyclare]

I have a feeling that both hinds are going south. The hoof is being what it needs to be in the face of it. Just seeing the outside of the hoof is only giving half the story as well as not seeing the hoof weighted. DSLD is also my concern. Like arthritis, it won't cure, progressive degeneration going on and must be managed nutritionally. No messing around, call the vet and know what's going on for sure. A horse has to atleast be be able to support his weight to stay alive and it feels like its time to give back to her for a change.
If it is, you'll find wonderful information and support here...

Yahoo! Groups

Hope this helps.

 

[crimsonsky]

this is quite fascinating. idk that i've ever seen a horse with legs/feet like that.

 

[Horseman56]

so we can all pretty much agree that this is relatively painful for the horse....?

No way to say how much discomfort, if any, this horse may currently experience. Horses are remarkable in their ability to compensate and tolerate.

and is something that can be "treated" with corrective shoeing?

Not really. Corrective shoeing depends upon a definitive diagnosis. None available in this case. Is it DSLD? Maybe, but those horses will almost always load the heels, even with extreme drop (to nearly horizontal) in the fetlock angle. You indicated this horse stands/walks on it's toes. I've seen DSLD horses perform at moderate level and even carry/deliver a foal. In every case, they fully load the heels.

Again, this is a case better reviewed in person rather than via photographs. If DSLD, then elongated support (eggbar, fishtail, etc) is the standard protocol. It's NOT a cure... just prolongs the inevitable. There is no cure. If the problem is related DDFT then protocol could change. Some may recommend increasing elevation in a DSLD case (e.g. Dr. O'Grady). I disagree in that wedging the heels causes the fetlock angle to drop. More to the point, an increase in caudal elevation reduces strain on the DDFT but INCREASES stress on the lateral branches of the suspensories and the SFT.

If DDFT, then wedging could be appropriate. Fairly easy to test in either case but must be done in person.

Step one is proper diagnosis. Then we could discuss treatment protocols with better authority. Short of that diagnosis, we're just best-guessing a couple of photographs. I've never shod a photograph. :wink:

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Oxer]

Missy, this mare isn't mine. She belongs to one of the trainers. I would never purchase a horse with legs like that, as cold as that might sound.
But she has been in the lesson program for about 6 months. She jumps beautifully, and was very competitive in her younger years. I suppose this is the big reason i wanted to find out what was going on with her. While her feet look horrifyingly painful to me, i thought maybe there was some chance that they just grew funny and she wasn't in any pain.

I never really though about picking her foot up. I am now pretty interested to see what her hooves look like underneath... although, the farrier may have her in pads, so i'm not sure i will be able to see much.

I really am quite astonished though at how nicely she goes around and how big she still jumps. My horse, being the way he is, is quite clear about when he's uncomfortable or in pain... so it's strange that she could be in such pain and yet go around so willingly.

 

[crimsonsky]

it could be a matter of the pain is so normal that she doesn't show signs of it. i know a lot of people that are like that (myself included) who have a bad back or bad knees and it's just become normal so you don't make mention of the pain because, to you, it's not really pain anymore. it's just a standard discomfort that you've learned to deal with.