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Discussion Starter #1
working with the 6 year old mare now -- she is always in the pasture -- i do not have a round pen or training pen or anything like that -- just 20+ acres of fenced in pasture/forest

will put a lead line on her and walk her back and forth across the pasture -- once i get to a certain point on the legth of the pasture she will turn her head in to me and try to push me around to go back in the other direction towards the other 2 horses (to the left)

what i have been doing is making her yield her hindquarters full circle and then another half circle (540) to get her facing back in the direction she was facing

we'll take about 5 steps in the direction we were going and she will repeat the maneuver

instead of making her go the full 540 to the left -- should i make her go 180 to the right instead -- yielding her forequarters?

or are there any other suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Townes just started doing the same thing!
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nice -- if you figure it out -- let me know

horse turns left and walks in front of me -- so i have been keeping her turning left for a circle and a half and start off again

not sure if i should keep her going left by yielding her hindquarters or make her go right by yielding her forequarters ....
 

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To a certain extent whichever way you ask her to yield I'm thinking that it results in her turning back towards the other horses?
Which is what she wants to do
Keeping her feet moving is a good idea as its distracting her mind from going back to them - and that's what you're doing
Have you tried just pushing her head away from you and insisting she walks forwards - I might likely give her a sharp slap to let her know I didn't appreciate being pushed on as well
When I train horses for the in hand show ring I always carry a long schooling whip to encourage them to walk forwards alongside me
You might also find you have more authority and control if you put a bridle on her till she gets the idea.
 

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You have a sharp elbow. Use it! As you walk suddenly flap your bent elbow to your side. If she connects with it, oh well, she'll think twice about crowding your space. Do it every sporadically so there's no rhythm for her to figure out. She might try a second time as that's how she learns. It will not make her head shy. Once she stops crowding you, it's time to teach her to focus on you, not the other horses. As you walk, suddenly make a left turn veering back toward the direction you were coming from. At first she'll get a yank on the halter but keep your eye ahead and keep walking, then suddenly switch again. She doesn't want the yank and will start watching your shoulders. Stop, start, turn, just keep mixing it up. Try not to look at her except for maybe a quick glance. Your eyes and shoulders tell her where you are going. Vary the distances for turning back. A knotted halter works best for this kind of work and be sure to allow her about 4' of lead. When holding a horse close to the horse's chin, it actually invites the horse to lean inward. 4' of lead allows the horse to walk it's own path.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
great advice --- i like the elbow thing


i keep web halters on them all the time (not sure if that is considered cheating) -- but i have a knotted bridle i can use or a mechanical hackamore


3-4 feet of slack is usually what i keep in the line


i will also try slapping her neck to get her out from in front of me --- but yielding her forequarters is a BIG must that i know i need to work on with her --- her front feet are not very yielding (i need to fix this)


she is barely to the point where she will back up --- she usually shakes her head and pulls her head back so we do it over and over and over -- one step at a time, and rarely will i get 2 steps backwards


i just started working with her and we have a long long long ways to go for getting the basic groundwork and manners


dealing with her - i am getting the impression that the girl that had her let her get away with a lot and reinforced a lot of bad behavior -- had her walkng circles on a lunge line the other day and she decided she didn't want anymore after 2 minutes -- so she turned her butt away from me and dropped her head and walked in on me --- she has done this before where she walks right into me

i am not sure if she is expecting me to scratch her head or neck or if she wants to move me out of my place. so i started swinging the lunge whip side to side between us to keep her out and she kept walking in until it was slapping her shoulders --- she reared, wheeled away, took off running (still on the lunge line) and started bucking (bucking and farting -- was a little bit hilarious) and then ran a few circles around me

i would say whoa -- make her yield her hind quarters away from me and try to get her walking again --- so she dropped her head and walked in right at me again -- so we rinsed and repeated

so -- i do think the girl that had her before let her get away with a lot and reinforced a lot of undesireable behavior --- my thoughts were to start at the begginning and get her to do all the basics the right way
 

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If it were me, is use a dressage whip or line whip as an extension of my arm. I wouldn't go in any circles. I don't like my horse telling me when to go and where. Plus, I have no desire to make myself dizzy. I expect my horse to walk next to me with his shoulders no further ahead than my own shoulders. When I stop (and I do at random points to and from the field mostly, unless he's trying to be pushy on the lead elsewhere), I expect him to stop. If he doesn't, I make him step back to where I want him to be.

When he was younger, he used to fight me a lot. He's always been a dominant horse and doesn't like yielding control to me, but he does (most of the time). When I first started working with him on space and respect, I used the whips add an extension of my arm to tap his legs and make him move.

You're horse isn't respecting you when she does those things, and that's a big deal in the horse world. I treat my horse as his herd leader and maintain that with him at all times. The last thing I want is for him to realize that he's bigger and stronger than me. His ignorance is my bliss, lol. Sorry this wasn't a better post, but it's hard to type much on my phone.
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If it were me, is use a dressage whip or line whip as an extension of my arm. I wouldn't go in any circles. I don't like my horse telling me when to go and where. Plus, I have no desire to make myself dizzy. I expect my horse to walk next to me with his shoulders no further ahead than my own shoulders. When I stop (and I do at random points to and from the field mostly, unless he's trying to be pushy on the lead elsewhere), I expect him to stop. If he doesn't, I make him step back to where I want him to be.

When he was younger, he used to fight me a lot. He's always been a dominant horse and doesn't like yielding control to me, but he does (most of the time). When I first started working with him on space and respect, I used the whips add an extension of my arm to tap his legs and make him move.

You're horse isn't respecting you when she does those things, and that's a big deal in the horse world. I treat my horse as his herd leader and maintain that with him at all times. The last thing I want is for him to realize that he's bigger and stronger than me. His ignorance is my bliss, lol. Sorry this wasn't a better post, but it's hard to type much on my phone.
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was a good post :) i appreciate the information

thank you
 

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My horse is generally well mannered but he does need the occasional reminder. I keep a free end of the lead line and if he walks ahead, I back him up and re-enforce that backing with taps to his chest with the end of the lead line. Having a dressage whip or crop in hand would also help the backing issue. Do not be afraid to increase the strength behind the tap but obviously only do it hard enough to get the desired response. Do not stand directly in front of the horse when doing this...stand at the shoulder or slightly ahead of that point and tap from the side.
 

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You've gotten some very good advice!

My lease horse just moved to a new barn and gives everyone a hard time whenever we try to walk him around the property unless its toward his paddock.

What I've found to be the key is to be random. Stop randomly, turn around randomly, just make sure that they're never too sure where you're going to bring them. That forces them to pay attention to you rather than where they think they're going.

If I want to turn right and he wants to go left or he gets ahead of me, I twirl the end of the lead in front of him. If he keeps going forward, it's gonna hit him in the nose; if he backs up to where he was in relation to me, the mean rope will leave him alone. He's older and knows all his ground manners, but likes to see if he can get away without them every now and then. ;)
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Discussion Starter #12
good advice ---- used a hog stick? it is about 30 inches and easier to carry in my hand than a lunge whip --- put it in the same hand i had the lead rope with the length of the stick behind me so when she tried to cut me off, i tapped her in the shoulder with it

leading session turned into a lunging session (because when i tapped her with the hog stick she took off running and bucking) -- but it was a productive lunging session --- she stayed out of my space and didn't turn in unless i asked her to yield her hind quarters --- she is good about going clockwise -- no so good counter-clockwise

after a good 20 minutes of that we went back to the leading session --- i changed directions often and erratically and she followed

thought i would finish it up with some backing up and by the end she was backing up with very little pressure for 3-4 steps at a time instead of the usual one maybe 2

you guys are awesome -- thanks for the great tips
 

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Good advice already given here.

She is showing you that she is alpha mare, not you. Goal is to get her to respect you as alpha mare.

You need to push her away from you, like already suggested, with the end of your lead rope or a crop...whatever it takes. When you do it, you need to present the body language that you are in charge and mean it. You need to lean into her and move her. Don't step away from her, or you lost.

You are mimicking what horses do in the herd to gain hierarchy. Another horse would pin their ears, swish their tail and then bite or kick. Whichever horse moves away, loses.

However, also be firm, but fair. As soon as she moves away and does what she is supposed to do, no matter how small....at first....release the pressure. As she begins to understand, you can expect more and more.
 

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When leading a horse and it tries to pass you, it has shown you that it is now dominant. BUT, when you quickly switch direction, almost heading back the way you came, the horse is now behind you and now you're the dominant one. Keep walking, focus ahead, and unexpectedly switch again. Here is something to be mindful of. If you continue to walk without changing direction and the horse is now hanging behind, altho coming along, he thinks he is driving you away. Here's where it can get trickly - getting it to come alongside so his ears are at your shoulder, ie only his nose is ahead. This is neutral ground, a partnership and this is what you need to work toward.
 

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I think random really helps too. I stop and if my horse's nose moves in front of me I back her up and out of my space. If she keeps walking once I stop I tell her to pretty much get out of my space now and keep away from me.

Why are you walking her back and forth across a pasture? It's often good to get out of the pasture because that's their "home" or "rest" place, outside is work. I'd spend most of my time getting her moving from pressure rather than leading her around. Teach her to back up out of your space, yield her hind and fore. Then I'd start leading and when she goes to move into your space I'd push her right out of it with you'd taught her, once she was back to where she should be I'd continue on.

Slapping neck etc doesn't do much. An elbow out might work with a horse getting out of line but if your horse hasn't been taught then it's not going to help a lot. Horses work on pressure and release. If you're training the horse to back up and she puts her head in the air, if you release the pressure you're training her to do that. Teach her to lower her head, back her up with chest pressure and always stop immediately when you get what you want.

From what you're saying I'd be doing a lot of the real basics, like tossing a whip/rope over her in a passive way so she's not scared of it, touching her all over and again moving from pressure. Stuff like lunging comes later when she's comfortable will all the tools and understands forward/back etc.
 

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Saddlebag, I thought the horse should always walk with it's shoulder at your side? It should stop, walk, backup, etc with their shoulder at your side. I taught all the horses I've worked with this. Is that correct?
 

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Saddlebag, I thought the horse should always walk with it's shoulder at your side? It should stop, walk, backup, etc with their shoulder at your side. I taught all the horses I've worked with this. Is that correct?
The only trouble with that is if the horse spooks or something they are right on top of you. I like mine to follow about 3 feet behind me off to the side. That way they aren't right on me and I can see them out of the corner of my eye.
You've gotten good advice. I would work on yielding front and hind quarters also. If you can get her to move both upon request, I think that will help with the other things.
 
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this is a respect issue you have been given good advice (the lunging issue is all related too)

What really helped me was to change my mind set. make it a game of sorts, correct the behavior and "dare her to do it again"

I also used many of John O'leary's (youtube and website - horse problems australia) techniques in the beginning with my very dominate mare (behaved very simalar to yours 2 years ago) very old school trainer, not the best people skills, I dont like everything he teaches, but is all about helping horse owners. He has a lot of stuff online thats free to read and view if your interested.
 

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My own experience with the horse's ears/jaw by my shoulder is the tell-tale ear signals are easily read. A genuine spook, something absolutely out of the blue, seldom happens, but the horse's mood may have it looking for an excuse to spook. It's ears immediately tell me which is a signal to divert it's attention. Having a horse walk behind and to the side doesn't allow for the same opportunity to observe. Bagheera, if you and your horses are good with shoulder walking then by all means continue. If a horse were to jump sideways, I think I'd rather get a knock on the head with his jaw than the full impact of it's body.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
When leading a horse and it tries to pass you, it has shown you that it is now dominant. BUT, when you quickly switch direction, almost heading back the way you came, the horse is now behind you and now you're the dominant one. Keep walking, focus ahead, and unexpectedly switch again. Here is something to be mindful of. If you continue to walk without changing direction and the horse is now hanging behind, altho coming along, he thinks he is driving you away. Here's where it can get trickly - getting it to come alongside so his ears are at your shoulder, ie only his nose is ahead. This is neutral ground, a partnership and this is what you need to work toward.
thank you -- i hadn't thought of that -- i definitely do not want a horse driving me from behind -- i can think of all sorts of problems that would lead to
 
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