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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Good afternoon everyone (evening or morning wherever you are)!

I recently just rescued my first ever horse (Lilith) this past Sunday (7/19) from a kill pin and she's currently in quarantine at my transporters home.
My husband named the horse, and I'm a bit nervous/anxious/excited about the whole ordeal. I think its more like "omg I just rescued a horse" and that's still going through me.

I've been asking questions every day since pickup (which was Tuesday) about Lilith and making sure I have things ready to go for her.
I asked about the size of halter she wears. The lady told me a medium, but everything I've found is either small, average, or large.
I went ahead and got a new average halter for her to wear, along with her own lead rope. I figured if it doesn't fit, I'll return it and get the correct size.

She got her Coggins test done yesterday (7/22) and it came out negative (woo-hoo).
She does have a cough and a snotty nose, but my transport/quarantine lady told me that that was pretty normal coming from a kill pin.
She gave her some Bute last night (7/22) in hopes it will help her feel better so she'll want to eat more. She is drinking perfectly fine.

So far the info I've gotten about Lilith:
  • She is not gentle, barely leads (info provided 7/21)
  • Little thin, but not too bad (info provided 7/21)
  • Vet will be unable to provide PPE until groundwork improves (info provided 7/21)
  • Noticed that she has a brand on top of her rump. Like Bronco horses (info provided 7/22)
  • Pretty head shy. Doesn't like her face touched (info provided 7/22)
  • Doesn't really mind being touched elsewhere (info provided 7/22)
  • Pretty calm today. So far she seems to be pretty smart! (info provided 7/22)

I am hoping I am able to visit Lilith in the next week, and provide her the new halter and lead rope I purchased for her.
I also plan to bring her some treats; carrots and fig newtons (apparently horses love fig newtons?)

After Lilith is through her quarantine I have a place reserved for her to take part in training. I've figured she'll probably take 60 - 90 days, and it's okay if its longer.
If she isn't found sound by the veterinarian for training then she will strictly be a pasture pet! But I'm very hopefully that she will be found sound and can go to training.

My ultimate goal with Lilith is do use her as a trail horse out in Texas State Parks (but I am DEFINITELY far away from that goal - probably years).

Here is some info of Lilith (Tag 7452) that was on her kill pin ad:
Percheron/QH X 4yr old grey filly. She was halter broke when younger but been turned out past year. Little refresher and she'll be nice!

Pictures shown below:
First two pictures are from her kill pin ad
Third photo is her being loaded in the trailer leaving the kill pin
Fourth and Fifth photo were taken when she was getting the coggins test and noted the brand on her butt
 

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I just wanted to say to you, THANK YOU for taking a kill pen horse!

The snotty nose, I'd be concerned about strangles.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had reached out to several people about the snotty nose comment, and a lot of them told me that it was common for kill pin horses.
My transporter/QT lady taking care of her for the next month told me that it was also common, and that if it didn't go away in several days she'd call out to her veterinarian.
I really am hoping it is nothing, because everyone seems so calm about it, so I am trying to woosah myself into believing everything is okay, ha-ha.

No her color is definitely interesting! The ad had her as grey, but you can see she is more brown.
I was told that as she ages her coat will start to turn grey and then white. So that will be cool to see if it happens!
 
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She's cute...
Sadly horses coming through the kill pens have a history often unknown so we don't know why they are the way they are.
She's a stout horse and not a baby so I bet she has been broke to ride and maybe just not rode or handled often, kindly or recently.
Her brand means she was intentionally bred and marked she came from someplace, a farm or ranch specific.
Her brand can be traced if you take the time and make the effort you can uncover some of her history.
The kill pen knows who/where she comes from as she had to have certain paperwork given to be put through the auction...you may never know or be shared that information though sadly.

Yes, horses with the snots are very common coming through places like auction kill pen situations.
It could clear in a few days or it could fester and need vet help and antibiotics given...snots are very contagious so do not touch another horse but yours when you go see her, hence she is in quarantine.
{Make sure you shower and change clothes before touching any animals at home, some illnesses are transferable between species}
I would ask those who are caring for her if she has a temperature and to take it daily for the next week and act accordingly if she needs help....a temperature on a animal is just like a human, it shows illness occurring.
She is beautiful.
She has not sure they call it roaning or varnish but she will change shades of color each season and each year of her life...
Enjoy her, as she works with your trainer and then with you together your bond will grow and she will learn you are fair, mean no harm and she will come to trust you...takes time to establish that sometimes after they come through a traumatic thing like auctions can be...not knowing anything, anyone and nothing is familiar is scary for animals just as it is for humans.
Congratulations on your new horse...and the years together you will have. :smile:
:runninghorse2:...
 

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Oh, I missed you talking about treats. Different horses like different things, but I've never met a horse that didn't like the brand of cookies I use: Mrs Pastures. Go and give her lots of treats and as much love as she'll tolerate!

(Of course, it will be lots of fun to try lots of different treats on her to see which ones she really likes)

If it were me, I'd try to move pretty quickly from just giving a lot of treats to giving the treats contingent on her doing something I want. For instance, she doesn't like her head being touched. Not at all uncommon, but obviously not good. I'd bring some cookies and, starting really slow, give her a treat each time she lets you do something. You might start by touching her neck, and working your hand up until where she starts to look a little uncomfortable. Give her a treat and pause. Try again, repeat. See if you can get your hand up a little higher, repeat. Etc. Since she is a rescue and you don't know about her history, keep a good eye on her the whole time to make sure she's not getting really worked up and thus ready to defend herself from a perceived intrusion.

Some horses can get lots of treats for no clear reason and not show any negative consequences, but it will make some horses pushy and even nippy.
 

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Okay~ First, congratulations! She is lovely, and wonderful that you have rescued her. I bet she will lighten up as the years go by... cool, because your horse may be a slightly different color every year.

Second, Yea for having a trainer work with you; that will help get you through a bunch of thorny patches. Just remember that she is your horse, and you are ultimately responsible for her happiness, health and well-being, so don't be intimidated or agree to something that you are uncomfortable with or don't understand. But if I could do one thing differently with my first horse, Djinn, I would have hired a trainer to help. We did okay but we would have done much mucvh better with some good advice, so again, yea!

And third, :love:LILITH:love: is one of my all-time favorite names! I can't wait to read more about you both: good luck!
 

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Hi & welcome to HF,

I first want to say, great name, as she is your 'first woman' and will hopefully be treated as your respected partner! And good looking horse. Her colour & her short tail make me think she could be younger than 4yo. She will grey out as she gets older.

Do you know why she ended up in the 'kill pen' sale? Just curious, why do you call her a rescue, if she were advertised & I presume you bought her? Just that over here, 'kill pen horses' are generally those that have been already bought by knackeries because no one else wanted them at the sales - so if she were advertised for sale, she is a horse bought from a sale, not a horse 'rescued' from the knackers.

Why is the horse not eating, and why did the woman give her bute for that? That last pic you showed, I presume because you noticed the dip between her lumbar spine & pelvis? Poss just her age/lack of development, but regardless of whether there are obvious things like this, I'd personally have a bodyworker, such as a chiropractic vet out to check out any new horse.

Of course, if she is totally untrained to be handled, that needs to be done first. At her age, I'd concentrate on getting her trained to be handled, not yet ridden. Once she's good to be checked out/treated by a vet, bodyworker, have her teeth & feet attended, then you can think about training to be ridden. And as she is your first horse, are you experienced with training? If not, you will want to have some lessons too.

Enjoy! And enjoy the forum too! Remember, the only silly questions are those you should have asked but didn't!
 

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No her color is definitely interesting! The ad had her as grey, but you can see she is more brown.
Yeah, I'd call her dapple grey, because she will be. This colour, also Perch breed known for it, will often start out black or really dark, getting lighter as they age.

Here is my little dapple grey boy - apparently he was jet black until he was around 4yo, then the first pic is when he was around 7yo, then the last, with my daughter beside him in the paddock was when he was around 14yo, totally 'whited out'.
 

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Yeah treats... had to look up 'fig newtons' but... why would you waste those on a horse??! :lol: If she has never been given things like this before, even carrots may not be well received. Esp if she's stuck in a dry pen with only hay, a handful of fresh grass may be far more appreciated.

She also doesn't look thin in the least, looks quite well covered. But she's at a ... gangly stage of development. Perches often don't fill out until at least 6yo or more.
Some horses can get lots of treats for no clear reason and not show any negative consequences, but it will make some horses pushy and even nippy.
Not disagreeing with this comment, but clarifying.... If you are not particular about the behaviour you're getting when you give treats(or whatever reward/reinforcement), then you may be inadvertently reinforcing 'rude' or 'nippy' behaviour. Remember, horses learn by association to do what works & quit doing what doesn't work, so ensure you never, ever reward 'rude' or unwanted behaviour.
 

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Congrats on your new pony Woo Hoo!!! She is a beauty and I love the name as well.

I would be willing to put money on it that she is younger than four. When you get her home ask the vet to try to age her by her teeth. Now would be a good time for that as they change so quickly at this young age.

She looks gray to me. It looks like she was born a bay. All gray horses are born a color and then change over time.

Good luck with your new baby, and yes, let people help you because there will probably be some rough spots as you get to know each other. I can feel your excitement, I would be excited too.
 

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Horse often LOVE watermelon, too, even the rinds.


I'd call her a 'rose gray' now, but as said, she will lighten up with each year.


She might be a PMU foal. somehow brought down from Canada. I really couldn't say.


She is well built and looks like a powerful horse. You are in for an exciting journey~! Don't do this alone. Get good help, make good horsey friends, and hang out here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just an update on my journal (mainly as a record for me to be able to use and go back for info)
\
Photo provided of snot 7/23


Saturday 7/25
My husband and I made our way out to a training facility I plan on using with Lilith. I wanted to meet the owners, get a feel for them, ask all my questions, etc.

Facility is a work in progress; building from ground up (pretty good since they've only had it for 7ish months)
Male trainer is a farrier and has been working horses all his life
Female trainer very knowledgeable about western style training

*Both have worked with many green horses
*Works with a Mustang rescue and helps train fresh off the trailer mustangs

Husband with one of the mustangs:


Went over how they trained. 30 working days; ie. working days being the days they work on your horse
Welcomed me to visit anytime during training and requested I do come multiple times
Walked facility and grounds

Overall good feel for them. They were able to answer all questions and gave me professional references
*Professional references checked out (including Vet)

Sunday 7/26
Husband and I drove down to visit Lilith for the first time

Arrived with lady in quarantine pen with Lilith, rope around neck
- Allowed touching of everything EXCEPT face [extremely face shy]
- Strangles confirmed (recovering well)
- Not afraid of rope at all {could put rope to face without issue, but move hand and she was shy}
- Not trusting of treats (would eat in her grain bucket)
a. HATES fig newtons, loved her carrot
- Showed to be interested in people, just did not trust them
- Alert

Brought a new halter for her to wear. Old halter is tight on her, and the woman would work on getting it off.
Open face wound from halter rubbing on nose (flys everywhere)
- Going to work on removing old halter this week

Right eye had boogers

Eating better and regularly now. Drinking well.





Snot Nose 7/26
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Six Months Progress

Lilith was moved over to her new facility for boarding and training on Thursday, August 20, 2020. I was there with her all day on the 21st, and spent more of the time reading Harry Potter and allowing her to get use to my voice. I went and visited her every day, and then after a month every other day back and forth reading Harry Potter and slowly earning her trust. She's extremely food motivated, and only truly seems to love carrots - so carrots she got (AND she got a lot of carrots). My drive to Lilith was an hour each way.

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I picked up Equinety XL for her as a supplement at the second or third week of her stay at the facility she was in. I would purchase this supplement again. I honestly believe it helped her stress level, made her calmer, focused, and overall changed her body composition. She gained muscle, changed her entire coat, and kept her feet healthy.

Overall the first month was me sitting/standing outside her stall reading Harry Potter to her. We got to the point where she'd come over and just listen to me talk. Carrots were a big help in allowing me to get closer to her. I was eventually able to touch her neck, and then it slowly moved down to the side. She never really allowed me to touch her face (and you'll know why when we hit the month of October). It seemed though Lilith wasn't very accepting of anyone, but me, and even the female trainer and farm hand on hand had a bit of trouble gaining her trust.

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I eventually told my family I bought a horse (like several months later) and they came out to visit her. By this point you could walk up to her and she didn't freak out. My dad was able to give her a carrot right off the bat, and she allowed him to get rather close to her than any other guy had been able to before. My stepmom was a little cautious of her, and because of that Lilith was cautious of her. By September though I was able to walk her in/out of the barn without issue, and we were able to start walking around the front of the property. Cars driving by, dogs barking, lawnmowers, etc did not bother her. It was the most bizarre thing to experience. She'd get spook more by a rock laying on the ground, or a twig half way up. Things that should spook her, didn't and the things she shouldn't even care about scared the heck out of her. I got a jolly ball and tied it in the middle of her stall to get her use to her butt being touched. She was less than thrilled with that.

October 17, 2020

I scheduled a vet appointment and the dentist the same morning. I figured if I was going to stress her out and make her angry - might as well do them all together. The vet came first, and gave her two shots. She was not very happy about the shots and reared up a lot. We also learned that the smell of alcohol (rubbing alcohol) really set her off. Like made her into one nasty demon horse. She got the shots on the same side as well. She would not allow Susan to give her the shot on her right side, and did not appreciate the pinching. She also bent the needle on the first shot.

When the dentist arrived she was very professional, sweet, and really took the time to earn Lilith's trust. She spent about 45 minutes working her hands on her face, and was eventually able to get her sedated with the dorm gel in her mouth. She gave Lilith time to get drunk happy, and worked on two other horses before coming back to her (a 20 year old mustang, and a 7 year old quarter horse). The mustang had the best teeth, followed by the quarter horse, and poor Lilith had such horrible teeth that the dentist will actually be out for her in April after six months to finish up the float.

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Lilith was listed as a four year old Percheron/QH Cross and after the dentist came we knew she was roughly 5.5 years old (DNA test results also came back and there is no QH in her.) We learned the reason she didn't like her face being touched is because she was in extreme pain, and this was also the reason why she always spilled food when eating. She had never had her teeth floated before. Her jaw was locked in the back, and she was unable to open it completely when eating. Her teeth were jagged on top and bottom and were piercing into her gums. It was a horror show in there, but we were happy we did it when we did. After Lilith had her teeth floated she became a completely different horse. She did a complete 180.
 

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Yay that is AWESOME! Please keep posting updates!
 

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So glad to see the update!

Out of curiosity where did you send dna off to and what were the results?

As they don't give percentages looking at the markers I wouldn't say no QH depending on the results. There are QH lines with draft and many QH have significant amounts of TB.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
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I came back out about a week after her teeth were floated and this was the first time she came to me and nuzzled her head at me. This was the first time I felt like we were truly bonding, and she was basically saying, "Hey, thanks for making me feel better. You aren't as bad as I originally thought."

A few weeks later we were able to get a bareback pad cinched to her without issue. We then were able to add a saddle pad, and a western saddle cinched. She still had no issue. I began to desensitize her or as I dub "terrorize time" with me being a bit sporadic approaching her and doing things not many people would probably do to a horse.

Lilith eventually got accustomed to terror time, and eventually stopped flinching or tensing her body.

Some of the things I would do to desensitize her:
Clap my hands together or make extreme weird noises
Jumping jacks
Running straight at her or from the size
High kicks next to her
Squatting down and jumping up
Flags and tarps

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It's now November and I am asking about when we think we might be attempting to get on her. We are able to cinch her with a saddle without issue. She's now grown accustomed to people of either sex coming up to her and petting her head (without issue), and I'm pretty sure she was tired of me walking her around the front of the facility. So the trainers agreed that they'd bring out a friend (who apparently really wanted to ride Lilith, but I'm still unsure as to why the trainers I was paying didn't want to do it..) and the friend came out. They were able to get Lilith all tacked up, and they quickly learned that the minute you raised your knee to get into the stirrup - Lilith bolted it. They were at it for what I understand 2 or 3 hours and got no progress.

After that incident it didn't seem like the trainers were going to attempt it for awhile. So, as the owner, I figured it was my duty to get her prepared for someone getting on the saddle. We all agreed if someone got into the saddle and just stayed on her for the time she "freaked out" and realized that she wasn't dying that she'd be fine. She would accept that nothing bad was happening to her, and she'd move on (but no one seemed to want to just jump on her and hold on, except me but my husband was highly against it).

So I worked on getting Lilith ready to have someone on her throughout the month of November and December. I laid 60 pound pellet bags on her (4 to adjust as close to my weight as possible), worked with the stirrups touching her or making sounds (throwing them up and whacking the saddle), worked on being above her on the setup block. Just overall a lot of different things to get her comfortable for when the times come for someone to get up on her.

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Here are some photos of me and the terror sessions:

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Discussion Starter #19
So glad to see the update!

Out of curiosity where did you send dna off to and what were the results?

As they don't give percentages looking at the markers I wouldn't say no QH depending on the results. There are QH lines with draft and many QH have significant amounts of TB.
I did her DNA testing via Texas A&M. They offer the Genotyping and Breed Testing.

I'm going to attach her results down below. I did call into the office after receiving the results, and go ahold of someone who was able to look further into their records, and determine that the best identification for her would be an Irish Sport Horse due to the Draft and Welsh Pony mix. I assume they had results that they couldn't send over that would be closer markers, but that's what she suggested I would identify her as. The Veterinarian who came out and gave her the vaccinations (who actually had experience with Irish Sport Horses thought she was one before she had even asked me, and had already marked her down as one on the paperwork. Apparently Irish Sport horses are expensive (with training) and I don't really care about her money value. I just love my horse).

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2021 Update;

The goal before the New Year was to have someone up on her, and that did not happen due to the weather on Texas. That was their ultimate 90 training day goal, and that has now come and gone.

Last Wednesday, at around 6:30am, I sent a pre-payment for the rest of her training days (75 days). So my horse is supposed to have 180 training days under her and be as close to as 'boom proof' trail horse as you can have (but I've had my suspicious that's not going to happen after the month of October when I kept feeling like I was the one desensitizing her to all of the things that her trainers should be doing). Later that morning I was being told they had narrowed down the locations to where they planned on moving (for a new facility) and that they were taking votes. Now I knew they were moving locations, and so far every location was doable or okay with us. That night the people of this facility went out and purchased a very expensive paper broodmare from an auction.

My husband and I go to visit our horses on Saturday (January 9th) and are told from another boarder (former farmhand) that they had chosen a location and were moving horses this upcoming week. Something we were never told! (This isn't the first time they don't relay information like that. They've changed the lock numbers numerous times and have forgotten to tell us). I reach out Saturday evening and ask when they are moving the horses and to which location. They decided they weren't going to go with a pre-built facility, or lease out a facility - they were going to go to move to a rent-free family farm (that's on the husbands side) and build everything from scratch. There is no barn on the property, no round pen, no arena, nothing. Not to mention this new "place" is a two hour drive one way, and that is something we aren't down to do.

I requested my pre-payment back for the training days that will no longer being happening, and was put on read. I told them I was very appreciative of everything they had done, which I still am, but they are young and this was a dumb business move to make on their end. However, this is part of growing up and being a business owner, and I am both familiar and know all to well. She responded back and said they were planning on dropping the price in board for the additional cost in driving, but the board price was never the issue. I responded back saying just that, and I even said that if they pre-payment for training days could not be refunded in one payment that I would be willing to take payments on it (something my husband was not happy about me saying). She left me on read.

I did not hear back on Sunday, but I was sent photos of my horse in the snow on Facebook messenger.

On Monday morning, after my husband had time to think and sleep on the idea of going down to this new location he was highly against it. I reached out on Monday, and told her that we would not be making the move with them down to this farm, and I against requested a refund. She left me on read, and never responded. I had my husband reach out to them on Tuesday, and request for his horses vaccination and coggins test and documentations (we purchased this horse, Billy, from them for my husband). They did not have the documents. After my husband reached out to them I received a text message with the female trainer and her new husband (oh yea they got married during this whole 6 month deal) saying that "We have been thinking and I think a sit down conversation needs to be had about Lilith and training. Billy will be done this month and y'all can transport him to a new facility." I responded back asking when. Left on read. I then sent another message saying that we could be over there tonight or anytime during the week. I mentioned that I knew they did lessons on the weekends, and wouldn't want to take away that time from them. She responded with "Let's just do it Saturday". I responded with an "Okay! I just want you two to know that I appreciate everything you two have done, but Lilith will not be going to Rice and that won't be changing". Because it won't be. There isn't anything they could say or do that would make me stay with them at this point. We aren't down with the two hour drive one way, and it's just not happening.

My husband believes they are going to try to pull some clause out of the contract I signed, but they have no real standing on it. The contract was only good for the first 30 days of training, and even their contract stats that if they extend or renew training they would make a new contract for me to sign (which never happened). Anyways, this whole thing has put me on edge and left a sour taste in my mouth. Friday we are going to view a new facility (which is also cheaper), and if we agree that this is a good place, we will have the people come Saturday and pick up the horses. The stable manger has gone above and beyond with all my questions so far, and I've been very transparent about what is happening at my current facility and she doesn't blame me for wanting to get the horses out of there, before they are moved to a private residence. She also said that she would have no problem getting Billy his coggins test on the way back to their facility, and having their vet come out and giving him his vaccinations in the next couple of weeks. I have also found a new trainer for Lilith, who unfortunately, should have probably been her trainer from the get-go and I wouldn't have wasted so much time and money at this other place. However, that is life and you learn and move on from it.

So I'm hoping for a smooth transaction of moving our horses and just wiping our hands of the place she was at, and moving forward this year.

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