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Can Lucy's owners take Charlie?

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Discussion Starter #1
Hey i really need your help because my best friend, Jemma, is sooo so upset and this is because shes being forced to hand back her loaned pony of 5years (Lucy) back which is bad enough without having to deal with them now wanting Lucy's foal, Charlie, who is i think is 5months? Can they do this? Lucy got pregnant by accident though, she escaped out her field and found some stallion up the lane and thus got preggers! But please help because I want to help Jemz..x Ty x
-Erin :)
-Oh and i don't know if the fact that shes fully loaned ( i think ) and Charlie was like born at Jemma's yard and not Lucy's owners helps ?
 

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That sucks, but even though she leased lucy forever, the real owners still take priority and get to make the ultimate choice.

Before I got my horse now i leased a chestnut mare for about nine months. After that her owner wanted to breed her and i had to stop leasing her.

Nonetheless, i still feel really bad for your friend because losing any horse is hard :(
 

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That would be an issue to discuss with an lawyer as each area state city and jurisdiction will be different.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
-LoveMyDrummerBoy -> Yeah I suppose,Awwhh no! thats not fair. :( Thanks for the reply and advice x
-nrhareiner -> Thank you, Hopefully Jemma wil try that! x
-bubblegum -> Thanks for response, You are right, but hopefully they will maybe change their mind. x

Also ,I dont wnt Charlie to go because Jemmas such a kind person and she loves him to bit and i dont think Lucys owners are very nice and I think Charrl would be wasted imencely! :(
 

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Legally, yes. They can take him; but if you get Lawyers a Judge and a court invovled, maybe they'll back off. Lawyers cost a pretty penny ;)
 

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Legally, yes. They can take him; but if you get Lawyers a Judge and a court invovled, maybe they'll back off. Lawyers cost a pretty penny ;)
Which will go both ways - if the OP's friend decides to try and pursue this legally they may be out a pretty penny and the horse as, legally, they have no claim to the foal.
 

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The foal goes to the owner for a fewreaasons.

First it is obvious ( but you could ask) the mare was not leased or loaned as a broodmare with the expectation that your friend will be breeding her. There are very specific clauses that would be in any agreement involvinmg breeding.

Second the mare owner could actually sue your friend for the mares pregnancy (even though it may or may not have been an accident). Not only that but the stallion owner could sue if as you say it was the mare that got out. That would be negligence on the mare owners part (or who is in custody of the mare).

Three since it is your friends responsibility that the mare got pregnant she should bear all the cost of caring for the mare until foaling and as you said it was born on your friends place where it should be. If it were returned to the mare owner while pregnant then they could sue your friend for all the medical costs.

If I were you, tell your friend to consider the foal as evening out the scoreboard and I would get the original mare owner to sign a waiver that nothing further will be done and that the loan/lease agreement has been terminated with all parties agreeing no action will be taken.
 

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Excellent post Spyder! I agree with Spyder in this one. No need for the hug though Spyder, I don't like cobwebs.
 

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this is an interesting one! did they have a formal loan agreemant? i think it might be argued by a solicitor that if the owners didnt specify no breeding, the foal might be termed as your friends. do you have an equine insurance policy -- some of them have free legal advise, which might help you. i personally agree with the people who say try to reach a friendly agreement with the owner, but it may be a good idea to get some leagal advice prior to that, just to know where your friend stands. do you know why the owners are now wanting thier mare back- is it specifically because they know she has had a foal while at your friends?
 

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well they can definately take Lucy away and the foal unless the stallions owner says something about it but it is more likey that Charlie will have to go with Lucy
 

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Foals belong to the owners of the mares who give birth. Period.

If your friend KNEW Lucy got out and went roaming, she should have had her ultrasounded and flushed. That was her responsibility as the lessee, because unless she leased the mare specifically to breed her, there was no reason for Lucy's pregnancy to be allowed to go to term.

Y'all can caterwaul all you want about how it's 'not fair', but if I was Lucy's owner I'd have been LIVID when I found out about a foal I never agreed upon.

The owner is within their rights to sue your friend for breach of contract, as well as for endangering the life of their horse by letting an unplanned, unsought for pregnancy go to term.

The stallion owner can also sue your friend for the stud fee, if they're so inclined.

I wouldn't let your friend lease a sea monkey from me, much less a horse. She's obviously not responsible enough.
 

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Speed Racer is right, the mare doesn't belong to your friend and I assume the agreement had a clause saying the owners could take her back at anytime which would include the foal as it belongs to the mares owner. Your friend could offer to buy the foal but she has no legal right to it and I wouldn't advise legal action as she could lose and lose a lot of money.
 

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also, could i just ask what country is this in? just want to say, in case my first post was confusing; i certainly dont think your friend could sue, but get advise from a solicitor to see how things legally stand. it's always best to come to a friendly solution!!! could your friend offer to buy the foal, it's going to be ready for weaning soon anyway?
 

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I agree with SR. My first thought when I saw this thread was how absolutely furious I would be if I leased a mare out and found out however many months later that she was bred and had a foal. It's almost worse because it was accidental.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Can i just say in reply to speedracer that my friend jemma is in tears after reading your reply about how you wouldnt lease a seamonkey to her well for information i didnt think it was nessicary to state our ages as this isnt that type of site! But Jemma is 12 years old and has loved dear lucy for 5years and had grown up with her and lucies owner were neglecting her before Jemz had her! Also i would like to point out there was no contract just a 'friendly' agree to take lucy for the summer (5years ago) and they never wanted her back! So Jemma and her family carried on looking after her AND paid for everything when nobody wanted little lucy! It was no way anybodys fault for Lucy escaping as she jumped over a 4ft fence ( not electriacal tape fence ). Nobody knew untill it was too late to terminate the pregnancy because they just thhought that she had escaped ! Jemma has always been in contact with lucys owners as they are 'friends' they now want lucy back for thier daughter to ride.
I also don't think it's very fair to say that they are within rights to sue Jem & her family when Lucy's owners should have been sued for neoglect !

I'm sorry but this is how i feel because you may think that Jemmas 25 and Lucy is some 16.2 showjumping horse ! She is a 12hh average child pony with some quirks as they do have!
I'm aso sorry if my spelling is bad but im only 14.
- tnx for your replys and opinions eveyone x has helped
 

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SR was just being to the point. Jemmas parents should have gotten transfered to their name. As it is they have No rights to that pony or foal. And yes the owners could easily have a winning lawsuit.
Point of the matter is no matter how long she has had the pony and cared for it the people with her papers and brand inspection own her. Not your friend.
 

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There seems to be a little bit more to the situation than originally posted. I apologize if I came off a bit harsh before, but the end result is the same.

I'm sorry your friend has to go through this, but you should both chalk it up to a learning experience. No papers, bill of sale, contract, etc means the horse (and foal) belong to the actual owner.
 

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It was no way anybodys fault for Lucy escaping as she jumped over a 4ft fence ( not electriacal tape fence ). Nobody knew untill it was too late to terminate the pregnancy because they just thhought that she had escaped !
Um.... so.....

The pony jumped out of a 4' fence, ran somewhere there was a stud, jumped in there, was bred by the stud, jumped out of there and was found loose running around?

Otherwise someone had to know that the pony could have been bred and should have done something about it.

And yes, it is still their fault that the pony jumped out of a 4' fence. We are responsible for the animals in our care. Even when they go above and beyond to make our lives difficult.
 

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So it was Jemma's PARENTS who were at fault then, not an underage child.

Regardless, my answers stay the same. I wouldn't lease anything of mine to people who are so obviously irresponsible and negligent.

Yes, it IS their fault and responsibility that the pony got out and subsequently got pregnant. It may have been an 'accidental' pregnancy, but RESPONSIBLE people would have had the vet out and flushed the mare just in case.

You can say what a meanie doody head I am, but the law is with the owners of the animal and not the people who leased her, and who subsequently did such a crappy job of keeping her safe and out of harm's way.

The law is also with the stallion owner, who could sue for a retroactive stud fee. Whether they will or not, is entirely up to them.

I get sick of people who whine about 'not my fault' when it clearly IS their fault. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
 
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