Trying to get rid of this guy is like a dog trying to shake a cling-on off... plus I have called around and I can't find anyone who will give me the same rate as him. Still trying! Still very angry about yesterday. I'm his only client at our barn so I'm easy to lose... but for some reason he makes me feel so guilty if I even try to say i'm "looking" at other possibilities. It's like trying to break up with a bad boyfriend who swears this time is the last and he'll never do it again. SIGH...#1 I would have fired the farrier and found another. I do not permit the farrier to discipline my horses, that's why I'm there holding them. If they do something bad, I'll fix it, not him. I've fired farriers for a LOT less than that guy did to your horse.
Here's the thing with these 'anger management' guys. They'll promise you the moon and stars and then will lose it and beat your horse again. Conceivably, he could lose his temper and take it out on you too. When you say, "Next time ......... is the last time." and you don't follow through, you have given him permission to mistreat your horse because he knows you won't do anything about it. The last farrier I had that I couldn't warm up to drugged my mare without my permission. This mare has always been an angel for the farrier but this guy......not. She never would stand properly for him and I was going to let him go if we had issues again that day. She started to dance and I was just ready to say, "OK this isn't working out. Thank you for your time." and let him go when she all of a sudden dropped her head and got all slack lipped. I said, "What did you do to my horse?" and he said, "I gave her detomidine to make her behave." That was the end of it. Leave it to say that he left running down my driveway, left his coat and tools and never came back for them. I had warned him once about being too rough with them the last time he came and then he did that. END OF STORY. I've seen him around, and he's still a very good farrier with lots of knowledge but he will NEVER touch one of my horses again.Trying to get rid of this guy is like a dog trying to shake a cling-on off... plus I have called around and I can't find anyone who will give me the same rate as him. Still trying! Still very angry about yesterday. I'm his only client at our barn so I'm easy to lose... but for some reason he makes me feel so guilty if I even try to say i'm "looking" at other possibilities. It's like trying to break up with a bad boyfriend who swears this time is the last and he'll never do it again. SIGH...
And you're right about the holding. He also will not do her unless I am there. Again he's terrified she's going to kick him which she WON'T, but she knows he is not a nice person. I definitely believe horses see deeper into people than we do. It's frustrating because he is one of the best but so many other farriers have made her lame. He's the only one who has done this reconstruction of her feet and kept her sound. I am going to try calling around and getting different opinions. He's more on an on-call base. Things ended on a weird note and we didn't schedule an appt for the next cycle. I think he's low-key telling me he's done, but I wish he would have TOLD ME to my face so I could find a new guy.
And I thought about getting off and walking her past it but that's been my default for when I get nervous. I was trying to do things under saddle which I am less comfortable with. It was more about me not feeding the beast of fear by choosing not to get off. I will definitely try again today and if we still have the same issues (which we probably will because i let her run away 3 times and now she thinks she knows the game), i'll "cheat" and get off. <3
#1 Anyone who belittles you for doing what you need to do to feel safe needs to be kicked forcefully to the curb, pronto. No excuses, no "I didn't mean it"s, just get gone now. It is never acceptable to belittle or denigrate someone who is having fear issues. When anyone opens their mouth like that around me, I hop off and hand them the reins. 99.999% of the time they say, "What? I'M not going to ride that mare!". The .001% who actually will try to ride her get dumped. Put up or shut up and get out of my space.@Dreamcatcher Arabians, thanks dreamie. that makes me feel better. my former cohorts made me feel extremely guilty for getting off and being weak. It's nice to know I can now.
I am so frustrated and angry I could spit. I don't know who I am madder at, myself or Tyra. Today was just a total clustercluck of crud. I think the reason she is being so difficult is she is in heat. She's been kicking out her back leg a lot when she's standing, and that's a symptom that her hind end is a bit sore. I know these signs, I also know when it's a colic kick vs. an ulcer kick vs. a heat kick.
This horse is probably the best thing and the worst thing that ever happened to me. I was going to write a post today about my stall cleaning, but I'm in a mood and upset so I will write about our ride today. Getting to ride my friend's "problem child" of a mare really made me see what end of the scale tyra is. If Missy is considered "hard" by most standards and difficult to train, Tyra must be near impossible. Missy was a BREEZE. This mare's version of intimidation is to throw her head up and trot very fast, but the minute you ask for collection it's a short conversation. This mare can EASILY be kicked and bullied into submission - not that I was, I was just noticing this. it took very little effort on my part to get her into an engaged jog. Missy threw a few threatening buck humps but sending her forward ended the conversation like that. With tyra, going forward only encourages MORE problems. It's like all the doors are closed, you will listen to what she says or you are quickly ejected from her back.
Riding Tyra is a privilege, not a right, and you must earn your badge and place in her "good book." As bizarre as it sounds, I swear to you it's the truth. If missy, a horse who i'd never been on, gave me a "fight" and gave me allowance into her horsey mind just like that? What does that say about Tyra?
It almost makes me want to cry, because of how much I have to grovel and beg and plead with her just to get her to do basic riding maneuvers for me. Walk to trot? Maybe. But if she suspects you are in any kind of "do it or else" mind set, she won't trot. Use the dressage whip? "Oh, you wanted a trot? OK. Let me show you how the standardbreds do it. Oh, is this too fast for you? Well you wanted a trot. Ok then, if you're done... BYE BYE!" and she will promptly explode into a bucking fit. and I mean EXPLODE. You have no time to disengage any body part. It's ride her into a wall or hang on and wait for her to stop. If you're lucky, she won't twist and REALLY get you off.
I have done every single ulcer treatment. Saddle fit. EVERYTHING. Once you can prove to her your intentions are not harmful, she will allow you GRACIOUSLY into her life.
She is the most opinionated, trust-forsaken, emotionally injured and damaged horse I have ever, ever had the pleasure/mispleasure of encountering.
I'll never give up on her. I know at this point most would sell her on. But I LOVE her. I love her so, so much. And I have come too far to throw in the towel now.
So I will wait. And I will stay. And as I write this I am crying because I can only hope one day, she opens her eyes and sees I'm still here. After everyone else has left her and let her down, I'm still here. And I'll always be here, to take care of her and feed her and treat her injuries. I'm never going to abuse her or hurt her. I wish this horse could talk, because I am sure there is a lot she could say, a lot we are better off not knowing.
I feel like mustangs on the wild range find trust in humans quicker than this horse has. I am so sorry, Tyra, that humans have let you down. But this human isn't. One day when i am a rich woman I will build a barn in her honor, with a beautiful and cozy stall leading to the most gorgeous pasture she's ever witnessed.
I have trust issues too, and I know how hard it is to let go and open your heart again. I love her with every fiber of my being and I show her every day. Little by little I am chipping away at the stone that has become her soul.
Hopefully will have better news to report tomorrow.
I agree with most of the others that you're over horsed with Tyra. I don't think that's an incurable situation, but I do think you need to realize that you have what you have and that may never change, so you will have to. You're going to have to learn to deal with her idiosyncrasies and ride it out, in the process improving your riding abilities a lot from where they are today, and growing your confidence in you AND her. In the long run, she's going to make a lot better rider out of you. But you're going to have to let go of your preconceptions and frustrations and anger or you're not going to learn anything. You may end up deciding that she's just not a trail horse. There's nothing wrong with that.
You need a real, Swear To God, professional trainer who will give you some lessons and teach you how to handle your horse. Not some backyardigan who THINKS they know how to ride and handle a horse, a true pro. Even 1 lesson/week would help you immensely.This is exactly my point and where I need help. I don't know how. Some days I know what I am doing and others I am completely lost. I don't know who to turn to for advice. Is it training? Is it books? Is it this forum?
I just want to find a way we can work as a team together. I am someone who must understand things to their molecular level in order to finally accept them. And there are things I am just not understanding about this horse. I need someone to talk me through what is happening and why. That is why I always become upset and post, I just need someone with experience and knowledge to sit me down and tell me why a b and c happened. That's why I am jumping to human psychology - it is what I understand. If I can speak of tyra in that way maybe I will finally get some insight into the situation.
I don't think the answer is a bigger bit, or an anti-buck device, or a running martingale, or rollkuring her, or suppressing her in some way. I could do that, I could MAKE her manageable on the trails, but it would ruin the trust and relationship we have built and eventually she would turn on me. They all do.
Your horse is anxious and insecure and because you are fearful when out on trail, she's not looking for you to be her leader because in horse logic, you're more scared than she is so she's gotta step up and keep both of you safe. And sometimes that's not a bad thing. Patti and I got in a discussion once where she absolutely would not, beat me til my hair falls off still not gonna, cross this big muddy patch and we had to go back quite a ways to find a way around it. Well, it's a good thing I lost that argument, turns out the mud patch was really quicksand. She trusts me, most of the time she'll do what I say and do it happily, but when she doesn't I've learned to listen. I've also learned that I still have to desensitize her to things every day. And she still gets scared. When that horse kicked the wall yesterday, she squirted out from under me and was on her way AWAY from whatever it was, but when I sat down and started pumping the brakes, she came back to me and we got stopped. But her FIRST inclination was to run and she did. She didn't stop and say, "HIMMM that was a scary noise. Hay Human what should I do?". She ran, then let me tell her it's ok, nothing is chasing you, nothing is going to eat you. But I had to stick with her to get her to do that.
You need a real, Swear To God, professional trainer who will give you some lessons and teach you how to handle your horse. Not some backyardigan who THINKS they know how to ride and handle a horse, a true pro. Even 1 lesson/week would help you immensely.
Human psychology will never work on the horse, they just don't think like us. What you CAN do though, is to learn about how they DO think and how to work within those parameters. We can help you some here on the forum and you can read a lot, but 90% of riding is not head knowledge, it's muscle memory from doing things over and over and over again. 10% is head knowledge and in the thick of things, isn't going to be real useful to you at that moment. Getting the right feel in your seat bones, seeing how she reacts to being flexed and having you use a half halt on her, suppling her, and things like that will teach you the way your horse reacts. Learning how to control each part of the horse, head, neck, shoulders, rib cage, hip, hind quarter and being able to get that horse to move those when asked will do a lot for you to feel in control.
You can use all the gimics in the world and they'll work for a bit, but when you take them off, you're usually right back at square one.
The horse is never in charge. YOU are always in charge and the horse has to accept that. That doesn't mean you won't consider input from the horse, you can and should because like the quicksand example, sometimes they just know what they know and you don't. But that's less than 1% of the ride. You must always RIDE and DRIVE. Being a passenger on a horse who is not a dead head is asking for broken bones or worse. Even on the deadest sided, dead head, you can STILL get in trouble if you're no more than a passenger.@Dreamcatcher Arabians
This is my experience with most horses. They spook, you bring them back. Easy, right? I've never had a problem getting a horse back to me because at the end of the day they are still waiting on me to help them. It is a horrible, helpless feeling knowing all your "WHOA"s and half halts aren't doing a darn thing, because they aren't looking to you for support. They've already decided, in their horsey brain, you're not worth listening to.
As I reflect, thinking of all the things that happen on the trails, I can confirm I don't think I am EVER the leader on the trails. Tyra is 100% in charge. Not in a bad way, I just allow her to be the scout, the lookout, the decision maker. And I believe that must be where the trouble lies.
In the arena? I'm #1. Sorry, Ty, but you don't get to have opinions out here. That must be why she is so good for me in the arena.
Should I start riding her out on the trails Like i would in the arena? Just treat it as an extension of arena work? IE contact, collection, high expectations? I thought trail riding would be an opportunity for her to have some freedom and generally I do trust her intuition. She is an animal after all, a horse, and is more in tune with nature than me.
I know all about bolting horses who don't listen to WHOA and half halts and such, which is why I keep repeating to practice them in the arena until they are 2nd nature to you and the horse. A horse who bolted, bucked like a rodeo bronc (I stuck that part), didn't have a one rein stop, and set his neck and jaw so that I literally could not pull his head around to my knee, and who didn't even feel my spur as I tried to get him to yield his hind quarter, who ran us right through the end of a big pipe corral arena is what got me so injured I couldn't ride for years and why I still have flash backs to this day. I would certainly spare you that kind of a wreck if I can.
If you honestly think you can wrangle and wrestle a 1200 lb animal into submission, I'll be sending flowers to your funeral. That's a fight you will not win someday. I agree, I grew up in the beat 'em til they cry era and I hated it then (and refused to do things that way) and I hate it still. I'm not afraid to lay one on 'em if they're being downright rude and disrespectful, but the beating is never ok. I learned that I could get a whole lot more out of a horse if I'd back off and go slow and break things down into little pieces and get each little piece right before I attempted the whole. I found I rarely had to get "big" or "strong" with a horse, and I gravitate to horse that that kind of behavior would just shut them down anyhow, so it's not effective. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of "cowboys" and "yahoos" out there who still think if a crop doesn't work go get a 2X4 and if that doesn't work go get a 4x4.I am quite good when I have an "all or nothing" mentality. I know how to wrangle and wrestle a horse into submission. I am trying something new, something that doesn't involve beating the horse until it's terrified. That's my background and I want to break away from that.
If you honestly think you can wrangle and wrestle a 1200 lb animal into submission, I'll be sending flowers to your funeral. That's a fight you will not win someday. I agree, I grew up in the beat 'em til they cry era and I hated it then (and refused to do things that way) and I hate it still. I'm not afraid to lay one on 'em if they're being downright rude and disrespectful, but the beating is never ok. I learned that I could get a whole lot more out of a horse if I'd back off and go slow and break things down into little pieces and get each little piece right before I attempted the whole. I found I rarely had to get "big" or "strong" with a horse, and I gravitate to horse that that kind of behavior would just shut them down anyhow, so it's not effective. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of "cowboys" and "yahoos" out there who still think if a crop doesn't work go get a 2X4 and if that doesn't work go get a 4x4.